DaileyB

As someone who practiced workers' comp law for 17 years and dealt matters like the prevention of silicosis, I wonder whether any masks which don't have their own source of oxygen are effective. My instinct is that the virus is so small that the masks couldn't possibly keep them out- sort of equivalent to asking a window screen to stop water. Maybe my instinct is wrong. Curious what people with some sort of medical or industrial experience here think.

DaileyB

Thanks for the correction of the youtube link. I thought may be the link was blocked by youtube or this site.

invisible

I need some more statistics, two more weeks at minimum. Then we will have some conclusions.

trueblu

The virus is transmitted in droplets...that's what masks keep out. The precise size of droplets transmitting this disease aren't known, but if it's likely to be >0.3uM, so a _properly fitted_ N95 mask will provide reasonable (but not absolute) protection. But even a surgical mask will provide some protection, since it's likely that the droplets are actually much bigger than 1 micron, AND masks importantly, prevent/ minimise hand to nose/mouth (unconscious) gestures.

tb

nk15

An article echoing some of the discussions here....
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...cid=spartanntp

Romanianflyer

No medical expert here, but what I read in (reliable) media outlets and health advisories is that you need a surgical mask. Masks which you'd buy for DIY tasks around the house or for air pollution are less effective. Apparently its not about stopping oxygen which may or may not carry the virus, but rather blocking any droplets (such as from coughing or sneezing). A surgical mask thus technically needs replacement after every couple of hours as it gets less effective from the vapor etc coming out of your own mouth. If your surgical mask is wet from all the breathing or sweating or whatever, it's next to useless.

Because of this its also extremely important to wash your hands after making contact with door knobs or anything like that, and not to touch your own face after you make such contact with your hands.

I have a 20-hour stopover coming up in Kunming in about two weeks, so I will keep a close watch myself how this develops. For sure I will bring some surgical masks and hand sanatizer when I will depart home on my two-week-long trip in a couple of days. For now I'm not really worried yet. Mortality rates seem to be very low - and IMHO the virus has probably already spread pretty much everywhere with most people not even realising they are carrying it.

A similar sentiment was shared by the French authorities - there are now 3 confirmed cases there. They basically said that it's highly likely that by know there are many more cases in France and that it's beyond possible to quarantine it there as it is simply not an option to close off all French borders. I don't see any differences in risk in travelling to France or the Pacific coast of the US than anywhere in China except for Wuhan. It's basically all the same low-risk situation. We also do not know with whom the person infected in the US might have come in contact with before he got home in Washington State.

Romanianflyer

Are you sure about that? Some health officials say the exact opposite.

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapo...n-virus-spread

nk15

If I were to travel in the near future I will also probably bring with me Lysol spray, not just wipes and hand sanitizers, but also in spray form, and I am spraying everything and everyone around, lol...

trueblu

I am sure. But the advice in that article is also correct, not mutually incompatible...N95 masks are better at preventing the infection, if worn properly, but also less likely to be worn properly by most people (I've already said all of this upthread)....so it depends on how competent you are at using it...I've been professionally trained and rigorously tested in the wearing of respirators, and have worn them professionally for work for hours at a time, so feel comfortable that I can do the job right. Most people, perhaps not.

But anyway, today, as I head to PKX I'll be wearing a surgical mask, since I think risks in BJ still relatively low.

tb

Romanianflyer

Thanks for the answer. I didn't read your remark upthread - just only chiming into the conversation now having only read the last few posts so have a bit of a backlog of reading to do. You are indeed right that its not mutually incompatible and depends on how its worn.

Safe travels!

invisible

You would be surprised... It does not depend on educational level. The same goes with shark fin soup. And this is because belief is never rational and educational level doesn't affect it.

You need to understand mentality of the people. See below.

Listen, don't take what I will say personally, but you are looking at it only from your own culture. To understand why happened what is happening you need to live in this region. You might live for years and decades and even after that you might have problem understanding it.

Let me try to formulate it here. The core value system of people here is different then yours, mine, people from Bay Area, US or West in general.

The most important thing for people in the position of authority is to make sure they do not do anything which may cause 'loss of face', which is in contradiction of their boss's will, or jeopardizes his/her position, in addition to theirs. Entrenched from early childhood is intense fear of punishment. If you come to Singapore, I definitely recommend you to go to Haw Par Villa, which was named one of top 10 most bizarre tourist attractions in the world. One of the exhibition is punishments in ten levels of Chinese hell. One such level is dedicated to those who disobey authority, starting with your parents, older siblings and continuing outwards.

When people are raised on above value system there is no surprise that what we see now happens. Hell, two years ago hackers stole health records on 2.5 million people here, including Prime Minister's. When the hack was discovered, the guy in charge didn't say anything for two weeks because of fear of punishment. I've seen this kind of examples left and right and it is in Singapore - the most developed place in the region with probably most bright minded people in upper levels of government.

And now think about China, CKP and everything else sinoflyer has said and you can start to have a more complete understanding. Lying to save face is a common occurrence here and for the most part a completely acceptable way to act.

nk15

I personally cannot tolerate the N95, I tried it during SARS in Toronto, it was a no go, I couldn't breathe at all.

trueblu

In PKX: 100% of airport workers wearing masks, the vast majority of pax also wearing masks, which is quite distinct to BJ as a whole: we went out last night and I would say only about 30% of people were wearing masks.

The majority of masks are simple surgical masks, which I think is fine: surgical masks will be highly effective at minimising risk of transmission from someone infected, and with such high compliance, that minimises risks of acquisition from all concerned.

In the Pacific Lounge, there was one (non-Chinese) pax not wearing a mask, and ironically, he had a dry cough (!!), but has moved away. If he's an FTer, I sense a 'printing and breakfast' thread popping up!

tb

DaileyB

What I don't understand, is the extreme concern about this virus. It doesn't seem to be any more lethal than a bad case of the flu. Am I wrong?

trueblu

Case fatality of 'confirmed cases' is much, much higher than 'flu (at least 10-50-fold), but that's likely a major over-statement. Having said that, 'flu kills hundreds of thousands of people per year, and in pandemic years that rises to the low million mark (except 1918, when it was 50M+)...so '"just the 'flu" is probably a misnomer. Add to that a) 'flu has extremely effective treatment, and b) a variably effective vaccine, neither of which this virus has, and I think there is sufficient cause to be at least concerned...

tb