anacapamalibu

I agree it's a defamatory libelous statement. The article is lengthy and has no facts to support that headline. Trash journalism.

trueblu

Paper just out in the Lancet suggests asymptomatic infection is possible. Unclear how contagious such asymptomatic persons are/ will be. Bad news: it means the numbers infected are likely to be in the thousands (i.e. a massive under-estimate compared with the official figures). Good news: actual case-fatality rate probably also much lower than current estimates. Also means if a sizeable number of asymptomatic patients are out of Hubei already, and if they are contagious, we will see a spike of secondary cases fairly soon..

tb

sinoflyer

Bats are a recurring motif in Chinese arts and crafts because its word in Chinese, bianfu, is homophonic with "becoming fortunate." As an ethnic Chinese, I never knew (although I am not surprised) that some people actually consider bats as food, ostensibly to derive qi and other intangible powers from them. The entire practice of eating exotic foodstuffs (e.g., anteaters, swallow's nests, and coco de mer from Seychelles, etc.) goes back over 2,000 years to Chinese herbal medicine, based on a cockamamie system of ying-yang and the "five phases" that still forms the underpinnings of Chinese philosophy today. Many Chinese in the early 20th century, including Sun Yat-sen, advocated but failed to outlaw herbal medicine. Mao Zedong characterized herbal medicine as "shamanism and superstition" and during the Cultural Revolution unleashed the Red Guards to persecute its practitioners. But this aspect of Chinese culture is so deeply ingrained in the public psyche that no soft persuasion nor government heavy-handedness, let alone a full-blown pandemic, will change that behavior.

STS-134

Scientific education will change this behavior. Once you prove that this stuff has no positive effects on the body, people will stop eating it.

Quite the opposite happened with my grandfather however. Apparently he laughed at my great-grandparents because of some Chinese medicine recommendation of rubbing a wound with a piece of moldy bread, which supposedly helped the wound heal, and dismissed it as scientifically unsound. But when penicillin was discovered, he walked back this assertion a bit.

It's fine to believe something but you should have evidence to back up your beliefs, gathered in a method that can eliminate statistical anomalies.

wco81

Is it only about herbal medicines?

Or maybe before China's prosperity, even as recently as 30-40 years ago, food sources weren't that plentiful?

So maybe certain wild animals were a delicacy? Or is it mostly voodoo beliefs about certain animals conferring magical powers?

gpeso8

This is a good write up and it expands beyond mainland China. Before I moved to Indonesia I had no idea that people here eat the things they do. I have been offered bat, snake, dog, cat, pangolin and other strange things more times than I can even count.

wco81

I was watching a reality show of people going through a night market in Phuket, which I will be visiting soon.

They dared each other to eat the fried up scorpions and I think it was grasshoppers?

I guess it could be considered adventurous eating and "when in Rome" kind of thing.

But now you have to wonder about whether this stuff is sanitary and possibly a vector for disease. Not necessarily these items but all the other things they're selling in these markets.

invisible

Yaah, Rrrright! For the reason above there are no more Chinese buyers of rhino horns....

/s

Listen, knowing where you live, I understand where you are coming from. As a fellow former Bay Area resident let me state that I also believed that people are rational in their behavior and technology and education is going to fix all humanity's problems. And then I moved to Asia... and now I am much less convinced about my previous believes despite living in the most developed place in the region.

P.S. On topic: BBC's article says that each person infects between 1.5 to 2.5 people so the spread of the virus is self sustaining and quarantine is not going to help.

chipmaster

First thought FUBAR

2nd my company and my son's both got the recall everyone out of China exceptions go the highest level and only for business continuity or desperate customer things. He secured flight out today, will be interesting to hear his story as the direct back to US was all gone and he is doing a double stop transfer back. Also will be interesting when he lands if they have history of origination in China.

I hope the very expanded late response is enough. IE incubation time is short, transmission rate low, mutation rate low, mortality rate low, or it really will be FUBAR.

Wishes and prayers to my many co-workers, friends and humans in China.

BTW do people have such a narrow view of how the world lives/eats?

invisible

Take a look at the table at right hand side:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeli...virus_outbreak

Starting from 18th of Jan, number of confirmed cases compared to the previous day:
2020.01.19 - 198
2020.01.20 - 291 +93
2020.01.21 - 440 +149
2020.01.22 - 571 +131
2020.01.23 - 830 +259
2020.01.24 - 943 +113

STS-134

Exactly what they're serving and how it's prepared are two orthogonal things. They could prepare "strange" foods and as long as it's done in a sanitary manner, diseases should not be jumping from the animals to humans. A lot of common livestock animals are mammals, and are closely related enough to humans that their diseases can affect us. Just look at the examples from cattle/cows alone: https://www.pubs.ext.vt.edu/400/400-460/400-460.html

First thing's first: health department inspectors need to do their damn jobs and shut down any merchant selling unsanitary meats in the largest cities. If they want to butcher animals there, fine -- but it better be done in a room with proper refrigeration and stored with proper refrigeration or under a heat lamp until it's sold.

nk15

A large scale disease or pandemic will have an effect, learning the hard way will probably be the most effective, along with strong governmental regulation/laws. After "mad cow disease" in the West/Europe I believe that animal brain and intestine consumption was banned or went down significantly and the problem got largely solved. This could perhaps serve as a successful model, although cultural differences and issues would be significant, I agree.

chipmaster

What is your conclusion, or you afraid to make one, LOL

STS-134

I'd love to see an analysis of the average education level of the people who buy stuff like that. I think most of the more educated segment of the population, which includes most of my friends, my wife's family, etc., know better.

Well, R0 can be heavily affected by the contact rate. Reduce contact rate, and you reduce R0, and you reduce the spread of the virus exponentially. Which is why they should have immediately gotten the word out about this so that people took proper precautions. Reducing R0 in the initial 2 weeks can make it much easier to control the spread of a disease.

What I want to know is who the morons are who stated, apparently without evidence, that the virus could not be passed between humans. Whoever has the equivalent position of Attorney General of Hubei needs to go after those people criminally for abusing their office and making false statements that harmed the public, and I'd love to see what comes out in discovery. On what evidence did they base their idiotic statements, and who gave those statements to them? Then you follow the leads and you figure out who ultimately started the false rumors. Then of course there are the people in the market, who knew that selling these types of animal meats was illegal. Everyone involved, from the people who sold the illegal meat under unsanitary conditions, to the inspectors who allowed it to continue, to the officials who didn't alert the public and even worse, gave them bad information and contributed to the spread of the virus, should be prosecuted.

eethan

My parents were planning to return 3 weeks from now on Cathay (PVG-HKG-LAX). I'm concerned there might be a flight ban or cancellation. Should I change their flights to return earlier?