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Old Jan 27, 2020, 9:09 am
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Coronavirus / COVID-19 : general fact-based reporting

 
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Old Apr 8, 2020, 7:13 pm
  #4396  
 
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Originally Posted by Boggie Dog
Again, I'm not a health professional but my understanding of ozone gas (O3) is that it is an irritant to the respiratory system. Any chance of misunderstanding what treatment was being used?
I read about it in Diario de Ibiza (in Spanish), and searched the net for more info. I understand ozone gets added to the blood (obviously in small quantities), so that it does not go through the respiratory system.
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Old Apr 8, 2020, 8:55 pm
  #4397  
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Originally Posted by cockpitvisit
I read about it in Diario de Ibiza (in Spanish), and searched the net for more info. I understand ozone gets added to the blood (obviously in small quantities), so that it does not go through the respiratory system.
I'm language impaired so had to find an alternate discussion on this topic. I can't vouch for the quality or accuracy of the information in the article.

Possibility of Using ozone micro nano bubbles, ozone therapy & routine daily activities to cure and protect against corona virus infection
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Old Apr 8, 2020, 9:14 pm
  #4398  
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Originally Posted by Boggie Dog
I'm language impaired so had to find an alternate discussion on this topic. I can't vouch for the quality or accuracy of the information in the article.

Possibility of Using ozone micro nano bubbles, ozone therapy & routine daily activities to cure and protect against corona virus infection
Given that the website appears to be literally a website of the product they're trying to sell/advertise, I'll HEAVILY doubt the accuracy of this article. A more... neutral source would probably be better, if it exists.
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Old Apr 8, 2020, 11:49 pm
  #4399  
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Interesting comparison between Swedish and Danish approaches.

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Old Apr 9, 2020, 8:46 am
  #4400  
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Originally Posted by cockpitvisit
I read about it in Diario de Ibiza (in Spanish), and searched the net for more info. I understand ozone gets added to the blood (obviously in small quantities), so that it does not go through the respiratory system.
My lay-person, no-idea-what-I’m-talking-about, summary is that the Ozone therapy is supposed to improve oxygenation within the body’s tissues and and it has an immunomodulator effect which diminishes patients’ inflammatory response (which I would imagine that, in the lungs, is a vicious spiral)

Out of 36 patients with Covid-19 pneumonia given this therapy, only 3% required intubation. The expectation would have been 15% to have needed intubation.

Only qualification I have is an understanding of Spanish.
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Old Apr 9, 2020, 1:41 pm
  #4401  
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A study by the Univ. of British Columbia and the Karolinska Institutet in Stockholm show a drug previously tested for other types of lung disease can reduce the virus by a factor of 1000 to 5000 in lab conditions.

The drug is based on human recombinant soluble ACE2 or hrsACE2. The idea is to administer the drug in order to get the virus to bind to hrsACE2 rather than the ACE2 which line cells and other vital organs.

The result now published shows that hrsACE2 reduced viral growth of SARS-CoV-2 by a factor of 1,000 to 5,000 in cell cultures. The result was dose dependent, meaning it varied depending on the total amount of virus in relation to the total amount of hrsACE2. The authors were also able to verify these data from regular cell cultures in engineered miniature replicas of blood vessels and kidneys, so-called organoids grown from human stem cells.

“We believe adding this enzyme copy, hrsACE2, lures the virus to attach itself to the copy instead of the actual cells,” Mirazimi says. “It distracts the virus from infecting the cells to the same degree and should lead to a reduction in the growth of the virus in the lungs and other organs.”

The research has so far been limited to cell cultures and engineered miniature organs, but the biotech company Aperion Biologics, which develops the drug APN01 with the active substance, is planning to conduct a clinical pilot study on infected COVID-19 patients in China. The same drug has already been tested against lung disease in a clinical phase II study.

The researchers note that the current study only examined the drug’s effect during the initial stages of infection and that further research is needed to determine if it is also effective during later stages of disease development.
It should be noted that the lead UBC researcher Josef Penninger is the founder and shareholder of Aperion Biologics.

https://www.cathlabdigest.com/conten...an-cells-shows


Elsewhere, Penninger says there will be trials in Europe and results should be available in early summer:

Years ago, Penninger helped find the pathway through which SARS entered human cells and began to replicate — the protein ACE2.

That knowledge has now led to a trial drug that holds promise for treating early infections. Penninger said there are clinical human trials set to take place in Europe.

“The trial will go probably for around two months,” he said. “Early summer, we should know if it’s working or not.”


The study published in Cell shows the drug “can reduce the virus by a factor of 1,000 to 5,000 times” in engineered human tissue, he said. It’s a sign of hope while the world waits for a potential vaccine.
Here is a pre-proof of the paper they're going to publish:

https://www.cell.com/pb-assets/produ...D-20-00739.pdf
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Old Apr 9, 2020, 2:00 pm
  #4402  
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Originally Posted by wco81
A study by the Univ. of British Columbia and the Karolinska Institutet in Stockholm show a drug previously tested for other types of lung disease can reduce the virus by a factor of 1000 to 5000 in lab conditions.

The drug is based on human recombinant soluble ACE2 or hrsACE2. The idea is to administer the drug in order to get the virus to bind to hrsACE2 rather than the ACE2 which line cells and other vital organs.



It should be noted that the lead UBC researcher Josef Penninger is the founder and shareholder of Aperion Biologics.

https://www.cathlabdigest.com/conten...an-cells-shows


Elsewhere, Penninger says there will be trials in Europe and results should be available in early summer:



Here is a pre-proof of the paper they're going to publish:

https://www.cell.com/pb-assets/produ...D-20-00739.pdf
I wasn't going to post this but given that Penninger has been brought up, I might as well. the BC CDC & UBC are going to hold a joint zoom symposium on COVID19 which includes the provincial health director Bonnie Henry (who's been our daily presser person) as well as Josef Penninger himself: https://www.med.ubc.ca/research-2/vi...-19-symposium/
It starts in 30mins for anyone who's interested. It will touch on various topics as outlined in the program.

(Note that Josef Penninger is the Head of the Life Science Institute at UBC).
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Old Apr 9, 2020, 2:11 pm
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So much speculation and misinformation. I had a patient today on chronic plaquenil for lupus get admitted with Covid and hypoxia. Please don’t believe any of this without on controlled study. Lots of stuff works in vitro but fails in clinical practice.
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Old Apr 9, 2020, 4:46 pm
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Originally Posted by Boggie Dog
Would you think iNO therapy is a reasonable step for a person with COVID-19 experiencing poor lung function?
in short yes. There is some evidence to suggest that the virus is rendering oxygen carrying red cells non-effective. That infected patients have hypoxia as their primary problem. The viral pathophysiology may dissociate iron from porphyrin. The resulting destroyed red cells are trashing the lungs and liver. Thats the observation. Still early days.

https://chemrxiv.org/articles/COVID-...hyrin/11938173

Almost all the CTs and Xrays posted online show bilateral disease, which does support the above hypothesis.

iNO will cause vasodilation of the pulmonary vessels, and allow (to simplify) more exposure of the working blood to take on oxygen and give off carbon dioxide.
Another observation I saw today from ICU docs in New Jersey that prone positioning for ventilation helps. In fact they observed and recommended prone positioning for people who were not on a ventilator. So if you have shortness of breath with COVID, try to alternate face up (supine) and face down (prone).

https://www.healio.com/pulmonology/c...9-related-ards
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Old Apr 9, 2020, 5:19 pm
  #4405  
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Originally Posted by boerne
in short yes. There is some evidence to suggest that the virus is rendering oxygen carrying red cells non-effective. That infected patients have hypoxia as their primary problem. The viral pathophysiology may dissociate iron from porphyrin. The resulting destroyed red cells are trashing the lungs and liver. Thats the observation. Still early days.

https://chemrxiv.org/articles/COVID-...hyrin/11938173

Almost all the CTs and Xrays posted online show bilateral disease, which does support the above hypothesis.

iNO will cause vasodilation of the pulmonary vessels, and allow (to simplify) more exposure of the working blood to take on oxygen and give off carbon dioxide.
Another observation I saw today from ICU docs in New Jersey that prone positioning for ventilation helps. In fact they observed and recommended prone positioning for people who were not on a ventilator. So if you have shortness of breath with COVID, try to alternate face up (supine) and face down (prone).

https://www.healio.com/pulmonology/c...9-related-ards

Could that, partially at least, explain the high diabetes comorbidity?
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Old Apr 9, 2020, 7:42 pm
  #4406  
 
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Originally Posted by GadgetFreak
Could that, partially at least, explain the high diabetes comorbidity?
maybe. But it is well known that diabetics are very prone to infections compared to non-diabetics.
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Old Apr 9, 2020, 7:44 pm
  #4407  
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Originally Posted by boerne
maybe. But it is well known that diabetics are very prone to infections compared to non-diabetics.
There's also a correlation with other health problems, such as obesity and high blood pressure.
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Old Apr 9, 2020, 7:48 pm
  #4408  
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Originally Posted by boerne
maybe. But it is well known that diabetics are very prone to infections compared to non-diabetics.
Originally Posted by MSPeconomist
There's also a correlation with other health problems, such as obesity and high blood pressure.

Yes. There is a lot of overlap. When I’ve seen numbers they are listed separately but I don’t know if they actually were separate. As in a person might be listed as a diabetic by they also had hypertension and hyperlipidemia.
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Old Apr 10, 2020, 12:55 am
  #4409  
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Germany is staring large-scale antibody testing:

Germany is to carry out Europe’s first large-scale coronavirus antibody testingin an effort to help researchers assess infection rates and monitor the spread of the virus more effectively.

Lothar Wieler, head of the Robert Koch Institute, on Thursday announced details of three serological tests — one of blood donations, one involving four areas of the country that had seen large outbreaks of the virus and a representative study of the broader population.
In the first, up to 15,000 samples will be taken every 14 days from blood donations. The second will concentrate on four areas worst affected by Covid-19, with representative blood samples taken from about 2,000 people. For the first and second surveys, work will start next week, with the first results expected in May.
https://www.ft.com/content/fe211ec7-...3-14b639efb3ad


Hopefully other countries follow. It seems various institutions are launching smaller scale efforts now. But you'd think national public health officials would all want to build some data-based models of the state of the infection in their populations.
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Old Apr 10, 2020, 1:21 am
  #4410  
 
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This news article describes a study in a "hard-hit" town in Germany (Gangelt) where they got 500 people to take a COVID antibody blood test and a PCR swab test. 14% showed antibodies for COVID19 even though only 2% had an active infection. https://www.technologyreview.com/202...wn-in-germany/

We need bigger samples from more areas. And I don't think this one is peer-reviewed. We also don't how many of them had previously tested positive. Germany, on average, only has 0.14% testing positive, but they said this town was hard hit, so maybe it would have been more like 2% (prior to this sweep of random testing). That's just a wild guess.

In any case, it fits what most already suspect, which is that the positive official COVID tests are under-reporting the true rate of infection, perhaps by up to a factor of 10. But is also suggests that even the hard-hit areas are nowhere near the % immune that you'd need for herd immunity (~60%).

Edit: I didn't see wco81's post before I posted. Maybe this article is related. I can't see the articles wco81 linked to.
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