AmanZoe (Greece)
Jun 1, 2017, 7:31 am
#331
Join Date: Feb 2005
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 1,068
Anyway the holiday is now back on and we are doing something completely off the wall and going to Elies Resort in Sifnos for, hopefully, a slice of the unspoiled Greek islands, before a few days at Katikies in Santorini. I will report back!
Jun 1, 2017, 7:38 am
#332
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Bainbridge Island, WA
Posts: 8,965
Over 700 rooms combined! BUT... while sprawling.... it never felt crowded.. granted we were there early May.
Jun 1, 2017, 1:43 pm
#333
formerly htang333
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Wi-Fi
Programs: Virtuoso, Top Ranked: Four Seasons (Top 25 Advisor), AMAN (Top 50), Rosewood, Hyatt Prive, etc.
Posts: 1,455
Was sad about canceling my visit to Amanzoe last month but now, less sad. Of course it'd been during lower occupancy as well so may be a different experience. But agree that Aman is not what it once was and it no longer is a "Sure Thing".
I actually just picked the Ritz Carlton Club Suite over Aman Tokyo for a trip in a few weeks...First time I've ever picked anything over an Aman when given the choice.
But I simply loved the service I got at Ritz Tokyo, esp at the Club level. Aman Tokyo, similar to Zoe (based on others here) amazing hard product but extremely inconsistent service.
That said, still plan to go to Zoe...I want to experience the inconsistent service first hand
I actually just picked the Ritz Carlton Club Suite over Aman Tokyo for a trip in a few weeks...First time I've ever picked anything over an Aman when given the choice.
But I simply loved the service I got at Ritz Tokyo, esp at the Club level. Aman Tokyo, similar to Zoe (based on others here) amazing hard product but extremely inconsistent service.
That said, still plan to go to Zoe...I want to experience the inconsistent service first hand
Last edited by BESVISOR; Jun 1, 2017 at 2:27 pm
Jun 2, 2017, 4:05 am
#334
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: England
Posts: 1,361
We are also here this week (though due to timing will probably just miss you sorry!) and I have to concur - while the hard product is stunning the service really disappointed me.
Again visually the resort is incredible and despite the above we are having a lovely time, I was just hoping for more given past reviews and the price point.
Again visually the resort is incredible and despite the above we are having a lovely time, I was just hoping for more given past reviews and the price point.
Grand merci to both MacMyDay and jctrav. Now if you would forward this report to Sven while being a guest on property, we would get live updates how this plays out & his efforts to fix things... sadly, by the sound of it, they sound a bit deeper than usual and will take an effort to get under control. Really wonder about Aman recently.. 
He wrote down all my thoughts and I could see how disappointed he was at my feedback. In terms of what happened, well, we went to dinner an hour later and the same old story of incorrect orders, no preferences remembered and chasing waiters for menus and drinks. We were told so many times by a staff member that they forgot, that we end up chasing on almost everything. Service is never prompt at an Aman, but it's fine as you know it's coming, but not here. I said that my points go in 2 directions: actual let down by the lack of Aman service, e.g. even after 5 days they still failed to remember preferences, and then complaints, such as every time we ordered something it was almost farcical as to what ended up happening; we ended up joking about what was going to turn up vs what we ordered.
After my Switzerland trip last week, where I complained at two different hotels and they immediately rectified it and offered above-and-beyond compensation without so much as blinking, I left feeling a very welcome customer. I even had follow-ups on the matter afterwards. Here, I'm not so sure. I very much like Sven, but I didn't feel it was taken as seriously as it should have been. It clearly was not just me, as jctrav mentioned above, and it clearly was not just us, as when we left the restaurant last night another repeat customer was there complaining about the baffling decision of the staff to bring his starter and not his wives at the same time - something we too had to experience.
I still had a great time and still would likely return, but only as I love that hard product so much. Yet with food prices having significantly increased and portion and quality down, it's not quite the value-for-money that it once was.
Some pics from my stay:
Jun 2, 2017, 4:27 am
#335
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Baltimore MD
Posts: 3,457
I spent 30 minutes with Sven yesterday evening talking through my feedback and how I felt it was without a doubt my worst Amanzoe experience and possibly the worst service I've received all year, as even though it was minor, it was so frequent and consistent to the point of sheer frustration. Whilst all the staff are very friendly and very keen, there are some massive communication issues and lack of proactivity that I just cannot comprehend. I mentioned that as someone who works in software, if we ever release something that has bugs in it, our clients go bug hunting and start looking for things that aren't even bugs, as they have that mindset; similarly, as they had done so much wrong, I was there looking at everything and wondering if it was a fault. Never once at the beach or main pool did anyone ever approach us for a drink, yet weirdly after being by the main pool for 2 hours, someone came and offered us hand towels. So I start thinking that they've just forgotten to do it earlier, instead of thinking it's good service to offer it.
He wrote down all my thoughts and I could see how disappointed he was at my feedback. In terms of what happened, well, we went to dinner an hour later and the same old story of incorrect orders, no preferences remembered and chasing waiters for menus and drinks. We were told so many times by a staff member that they forgot, that we end up chasing on almost everything. Service is never prompt at an Aman, but it's fine as you know it's coming, but not here. I said that my points go in 2 directions: actual let down by the lack of Aman service, e.g. even after 5 days they still failed to remember preferences, and then complaints, such as every time we ordered something it was almost farcical as to what ended up happening; we ended up joking about what was going to turn up vs what we ordered.
After my Switzerland trip last week, where I complained at two different hotels and they immediately rectified it and offered above-and-beyond compensation without so much as blinking, I left feeling a very welcome customer. I even had follow-ups on the matter afterwards. Here, I'm not so sure. I very much like Sven, but I didn't feel it was taken as seriously as it should have been. It clearly was not just me, as jctrav mentioned above, and it clearly was not just us, as when we left the restaurant last night another repeat customer was there complaining about the baffling decision of the staff to bring his starter and not his wives at the same time - something we too had to experience.
I still had a great time and still would likely return, but only as I love that hard product so much. Yet with food prices having significantly increased and portion and quality down, it's not quite the value-for-money that it once was.
Some pics from my stay:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/132880...57682276014211
He wrote down all my thoughts and I could see how disappointed he was at my feedback. In terms of what happened, well, we went to dinner an hour later and the same old story of incorrect orders, no preferences remembered and chasing waiters for menus and drinks. We were told so many times by a staff member that they forgot, that we end up chasing on almost everything. Service is never prompt at an Aman, but it's fine as you know it's coming, but not here. I said that my points go in 2 directions: actual let down by the lack of Aman service, e.g. even after 5 days they still failed to remember preferences, and then complaints, such as every time we ordered something it was almost farcical as to what ended up happening; we ended up joking about what was going to turn up vs what we ordered.
After my Switzerland trip last week, where I complained at two different hotels and they immediately rectified it and offered above-and-beyond compensation without so much as blinking, I left feeling a very welcome customer. I even had follow-ups on the matter afterwards. Here, I'm not so sure. I very much like Sven, but I didn't feel it was taken as seriously as it should have been. It clearly was not just me, as jctrav mentioned above, and it clearly was not just us, as when we left the restaurant last night another repeat customer was there complaining about the baffling decision of the staff to bring his starter and not his wives at the same time - something we too had to experience.
I still had a great time and still would likely return, but only as I love that hard product so much. Yet with food prices having significantly increased and portion and quality down, it's not quite the value-for-money that it once was.
Some pics from my stay:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/132880...57682276014211
I like Sven. Liked him a lot.. however, I felt though that while he was present and available he wasn't great at actually rectifying a situation or getting something done. When the ATC in Greece went on strike while we were there he didn't do a great job of getting his team mobilized to take care of the guests (well at least to take care of me...)
FDW
Jun 2, 2017, 5:20 am
#336
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Bainbridge Island, WA
Posts: 8,965
I have traveled to Greece dozens of times and stayed in moderate to higher-end hotels. I have never stayed at the AmanZoe Greece before.
This may be too broad of a statement, but I have found over the course of my travels in Greece that complaints are not handled as efficiently and satisfactorily as they are in other countries. Perhaps a training issue, perhaps a cultural issue. In most cases I am listened to and occasionally an immediate solution is offered... but... it is always the bare minimum....more to dismiss me and my issue then to retain my loyalty. It basically just becomes a vent. I never feel the hotel staff has gone above and beyond in addressing the complaint.
Perhaps I expect too much . But sometimes being heard is not enough.
This may be too broad of a statement, but I have found over the course of my travels in Greece that complaints are not handled as efficiently and satisfactorily as they are in other countries. Perhaps a training issue, perhaps a cultural issue. In most cases I am listened to and occasionally an immediate solution is offered... but... it is always the bare minimum....more to dismiss me and my issue then to retain my loyalty. It basically just becomes a vent. I never feel the hotel staff has gone above and beyond in addressing the complaint.
Perhaps I expect too much . But sometimes being heard is not enough.
Jun 2, 2017, 5:27 am
#337
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 1,644
Just a thought, encouraged by reading the latest posts by MacMyDay and others, do you think that expressing all one's complaints in public helps or worsens the situation. Does Sven at Amazoe really appreciate all this exposure?
I know from my own experience that hotels/cruise lines/rnestaurants etc dislike complaints being made in public fora like this, and like TripAdvisor, and I know from personal experience that a complaint I once had against a hotel, and which I described in a TA review, led to my forfeiting a complimentary stay.
Just wondering what other folk think . . . it's an interesting dichotomy between the democracy of the www and the relationship between client and customer which isn't the same as that between patient and doctor but needs some careful consideration.
I know from my own experience that hotels/cruise lines/rnestaurants etc dislike complaints being made in public fora like this, and like TripAdvisor, and I know from personal experience that a complaint I once had against a hotel, and which I described in a TA review, led to my forfeiting a complimentary stay.
Just wondering what other folk think . . . it's an interesting dichotomy between the democracy of the www and the relationship between client and customer which isn't the same as that between patient and doctor but needs some careful consideration.
Last edited by Pausanias; Jun 2, 2017 at 8:08 am
Jun 2, 2017, 5:32 am
#338
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Europe
Posts: 2,602
This may be too broad of a statement, but I have found over the course of my travels in Greece that complaints are not handled as efficiently and satisfactorily as they are in other countries. Perhaps a training issue, perhaps a cultural issue. In most cases I am listened to and occasionally an immediate solution is offered... but... it is always the bare minimum....more to dismiss me and my issue then to retain my loyalty. It basically just becomes a vent. I never feel the hotel staff has gone above and beyond in addressing the complaint.
Perhaps I expect too much . But sometimes being heard is not enough.
Perhaps I expect too much . But sometimes being heard is not enough.
Anyone updated on Dolphin's sales plans for Zoe?
Just a thought, encouraged by reading the latest posts by MacMyDay and others, do you think that expressing all one's complaints in public helps or worsens the situation. Does Sven at Amazoe really appreciate all this exposure?
I know from my own experience that hotels/cruise lines/rnestaurants etc dislike complaints being made in public fora like this, and like TripAdvisor, and I know from personal experience that a complaint I once had against a hotel, and which I described in a TA review, led to my forfeiting a complimentary stay.
Just wondering what other folk think . . . it's an interesting dichotomy between the democracy of the www and the relationship between client and customer which isn't the same as that between patient and doctor but needs some careful consideration.
I know from my own experience that hotels/cruise lines/rnestaurants etc dislike complaints being made in public fora like this, and like TripAdvisor, and I know from personal experience that a complaint I once had against a hotel, and which I described in a TA review, led to my forfeiting a complimentary stay.
Just wondering what other folk think . . . it's an interesting dichotomy between the democracy of the www and the relationship between client and customer which isn't the same as that between patient and doctor but needs some careful consideration.
It 100% depends on the style of the complaint, and with MacMyDay and many others it is very precise, often humorous and well intended. We want the hotels to get better. Very different on TA, where most people just vent their frustration which is not helping matters.
Jun 2, 2017, 2:03 pm
#339
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: England
Posts: 1,361
Just a thought, encouraged by reading the latest posts by MacMyDay and others, do you think that expressing all one's complaints in public helps or worsens the situation. Does Sven at Amazoe really appreciate all this exposure?
I know from my own experience that hotels/cruise lines/rnestaurants etc dislike complaints being made in public fora like this, and like TripAdvisor, and I know from personal experience that a complaint I once had against a hotel, and which I described in a TA review, led to my forfeiting a complimentary stay.
Just wondering what other folk think . . . it's an interesting dichotomy between the democracy of the www and the relationship between client and customer which isn't the same as that between patient and doctor but needs some careful consideration.
I know from my own experience that hotels/cruise lines/rnestaurants etc dislike complaints being made in public fora like this, and like TripAdvisor, and I know from personal experience that a complaint I once had against a hotel, and which I described in a TA review, led to my forfeiting a complimentary stay.
Just wondering what other folk think . . . it's an interesting dichotomy between the democracy of the www and the relationship between client and customer which isn't the same as that between patient and doctor but needs some careful consideration.
If Aman truly decided to take some form of revenge for this, I think it says more about them than it does about me.
Jun 2, 2017, 4:39 pm
#340
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Sweden
Posts: 216
Just a thought, encouraged by reading the latest posts by MacMyDay and others, do you think that expressing all one's complaints in public helps or worsens the situation. Does Sven at Amazoe really appreciate all this exposure?
I know from my own experience that hotels/cruise lines/rnestaurants etc dislike complaints being made in public fora like this, and like TripAdvisor, and I know from personal experience that a complaint I once had against a hotel, and which I described in a TA review, led to my forfeiting a complimentary stay.
Just wondering what other folk think . . . it's an interesting dichotomy between the democracy of the www and the relationship between client and customer which isn't the same as that between patient and doctor but needs some careful consideration.
I know from my own experience that hotels/cruise lines/rnestaurants etc dislike complaints being made in public fora like this, and like TripAdvisor, and I know from personal experience that a complaint I once had against a hotel, and which I described in a TA review, led to my forfeiting a complimentary stay.
Just wondering what other folk think . . . it's an interesting dichotomy between the democracy of the www and the relationship between client and customer which isn't the same as that between patient and doctor but needs some careful consideration.
We are generally talking about very high end hotels and resorts, where things are expected to be handled in a certain way. If that isn't how things are, I think it's fair to let other people know. I always make sure to let management at the hotel know as well, usually during my stay or at the end of it. It also helps to establish a pattern for any given property. One bad experience might just be due to unfortunate circumstances, depending on what happened, but when several different people have similar complaints over a longer period of time, you might be better off spending what generally is a large sum of money elsewhere.
Even if the regulars here might have more than average to spend, most are still interested in spending it wisely.
EDIT: It would be interesting to know how common it really is that the hotels in question read this forum, and how much effort is put into place to identify the people here. Since I write extensive reports here, and similar emails to the hotels I write about, I know it wouldn't take much for them to make the connection, if they tried.
Last edited by hannisen; Jun 2, 2017 at 4:45 pm
Jun 2, 2017, 4:43 pm
#341
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: MEL
Programs: QFF, AA, LM, EY
Posts: 762
Very interesting question. I don't see a problem with anything I or anyone else has said in this thread. I'm not here to belittle a specific member of staff, but provide specific feedback on exactly what has happened to me, and is evidently happening to other guests. I'm also not providing any confidential information that was discussed in private, I'm just providing information on the response to a whole series of service failures, which I think is the hallmark of a great hotel. As someone who has stayed in the resort 5 times in 4 years, I think the feedback is better than you will receive in almost any other area of the Internet. I'm fully aware that resorts like Amanzoe have benefitted financially from my reviews previously and now I'm stating all is not well, which is only fair. The sun cannot always shine. I often find it interesting that when I often start the criticism of somewhere that others will join in, even if it's via private message, as clearly they do not want to go public with it. Each to their own, but for me I find the value of this forum being the detail and acceptance of knowing you're reading the views of well traveled individuals without bias.
If Aman truly decided to take some form of revenge for this, I think it says more about them than it does about me.
If Aman truly decided to take some form of revenge for this, I think it says more about them than it does about me.
Jun 3, 2017, 8:41 am
#342
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 39
Great to see you, MacMyDay and thanks for the details on your discussion with Sven.
Related to the comments above, I feel that my lighthearted feedback below is fair and impartial and not meant as vindictive or being critical of specific members of staff. For what it's worth, I made the booking in large part after reading MacMyDay's past reviews, so agree that it should be fair to go both ways when it comes to online commentary. I think it's important to be open to feedback regardless of your job - without knowing where I'm going wrong how can I improve?
Day 2:
Day 3:
Day 4:
Day 5:
In summary:
Related to the comments above, I feel that my lighthearted feedback below is fair and impartial and not meant as vindictive or being critical of specific members of staff. For what it's worth, I made the booking in large part after reading MacMyDay's past reviews, so agree that it should be fair to go both ways when it comes to online commentary. I think it's important to be open to feedback regardless of your job - without knowing where I'm going wrong how can I improve?
Day 2:
- Housekeeping must have noticed that we drank lots of water so they gave us extra which was a nice touch. Unfortunately they only repeated this once more during our stay.
- We went for a drink and then dinner. It took about 15 minutes to get a menu, then another 20 or so to get a drink.
- Dinner took a very long time, to the point where they brought a complimentary salad because they recognized it was taking so long. There were I think 5 other parties having dinner at the time.
- While the above and below are all relatively minor, the biggest downer was the atmosphere this evening. I saw ~10 parties between the bar and restaurant, of which 3 were loudly complaining about slow/poor service (consistent with MacMyDay's points above). Regardless of what their complaints were, just being around this wasn't exactly a relaxing experience.
Day 3:
- The beer saga continues We had a boat trip planned for today and so last night we were asked to select what we'd like for a picnic. They asked if we'd like any drinks and I noted the beer we had in the minibar if it was possible - the staff member said they'd look into it. They later caught me after dinner to say yes this is fine and everything will be there tomorrow - great. Of course it wasn't. Yes this is nothing to cry about after a lovely day exploring the islands - but why make a point of stopping by to tell me that they'll include the beer if they weren't going to bother. Edit: They also charged me for the beers that never were.
- The picnic was 120 EUR for 2 sweaty sandwiches, a salad and a couple of small tidbits. At first I thought this was just a little egregious, but then when I later compared it to the meal at Hotel Poseidon (see below) and our lunches at the beach club (half the price and infinitely better quality) it seemed like a total ripoff.
- The boat trip was excellent and would highly recommend it. The captain was fun, engaging and knowledgeable and took us to Hydra, Spetses and a few beautiful swimming spots.
- We ate from the room service menu at the bar, which resulted in much improved service and food quality. I wish we knew this from day 1.
Day 4:
- Earlier in the week we arranged a car + water taxi to Spetses and asked them to make a dinner reservation. Today we checked that everything was set, and yes they had booked the transport but knew nothing about the dinner reservation.
- Beer update: Yes they had my beloved Greek beer at the bar last night. The friendly bartender was asking me how I like it and my wife was teasing me quite a bit so the bartender said I'll make sure there's some at the beach club for you tomorrow. Was it there? No, it turned out they were teasing me too. The best part - the friendly captain from yesterday's boat ride was at the beach bar and joked, "Haha! Hey that's the second time with no beer!" At least he's on top of things.
- They offered to have the beer delivered even after I insisted it wasn't necessary and it arrived after an hour. I was so excited it quickly disappeared and I asked if I might have another of the same. 20 minutes later a different type of beer showed up Also, I'm assuming that they used the supply from the minibar given that it stopped being replenished from this day onwards.
- Otherwise, service at the beach club was very good this day and the next with them checking in multiple times, repeatedly offering drinks, cold towels, some of the staff remembering preferences, etc. This is what Aman is meant to be about - when it's good it can truly stand out from other resorts.
- We went to the restaurant at the Hotel Poseidon that evening for dinner. The service, food and setting were all excellent - easily deserving of a Michelin star in my opinion. I also thought it was of very good value, at 160 EUR for 4 courses and drinks.
Day 5:
- The doorbell rang, great I thought this must be housekeeping to pick up the room service that's been sitting attracting ants for the past couple of hours while we were out. No, actually it's a buggy to take us to the pool - except we didn't ask for one, though their response made it clear that they were annoyed for our supposed mistake.
- We had made spa appointments earlier in the week. At the time the receptionist seemed to be really struggling so we went back the following day to double check the booked times. A different receptionist struggled even more so, and we were told with confidence 3 different times during the same conversation. There ended up being only two different times available so we took those anyway, with my wife asking for the slot with the female therapist. Naturally to be consistent with our experience this week, they decided to do the reverse of what we asked for and she got the male therapist. Since I wasn't there with her we couldn't just swap, so she decided to take it anyway but it's another annoying mistake.
In summary:
- We had a great holiday and came away agreeing that it was one of the best hard products we've ever experienced.
- I thought that breakfast and lunch were of very good quality, with room service friendly and prompt. Unfortunately I cannot say the same of dinner, which is similar to my experience of Tokyo, Amanera, Venice and Amangiri. I've also read reviews saying similar things, so it's a shame that they don't try and pick up on the feedback.
- Neither of us do that well in a long car journey so we opted for the helicopter transfer each way. This was great fun and very well done, but it does mean that the total cost for the visit is quite high. I walked away from Singita Boulders and Twin Farms thinking they were of great value despite the high rate, something I can't say the same here unfortunately and is what will probably hold us back from coming again.
- On the one hand, I worry that the above is being overly nitpicky - we truly did enjoy our stay. On the other hand, recent stays at other places, e.g. Rosewood San Miguel, prove that it is possible to have very good food, proactive service and make zero mistakes whilst also not charging an arm and a leg. I can't give them a free pass due to the region or remoteness, as the Poseidon Hotel is a great example of what's possible right in the same region as Amanzoe.
Last edited by jctrav; Jun 3, 2017 at 2:15 pm
Jun 3, 2017, 10:16 am
#343
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: England
Posts: 1,361
After my Switzerland trip last week, where I complained at two different hotels and they immediately rectified it and offered above-and-beyond compensation without so much as blinking, I left feeling a very welcome customer. I even had follow-ups on the matter afterwards. Here, I'm not so sure. I very much like Sven, but I didn't feel it was taken as seriously as it should have been. It clearly was not just me, as jctrav mentioned above, and it clearly was not just us, as when we left the restaurant last night another repeat customer was there complaining about the baffling decision of the staff to bring his starter and not his wives at the same time - something we too had to experience.
I still had a great time and still would likely return, but only as I love that hard product so much. Yet with food prices having significantly increased and portion and quality down, it's not quite the value-for-money that it once was.
I still had a great time and still would likely return, but only as I love that hard product so much. Yet with food prices having significantly increased and portion and quality down, it's not quite the value-for-money that it once was.
Jun 3, 2017, 10:32 am
#344
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Bainbridge Island, WA
Posts: 8,965
Only fair to follow up and say that I completely stand corrected on this. The follow-up (received today, the day after departure and two days after the complaint) has been quite something, so to say they've not taken it seriously would be grossly unfair. If anything, the response and follow-up has been beyond anything I've ever seen. The Aman bigwigs still clearly care and didn't sell their souls to the devil. I felt something could have been said whilst I was on site to clarify how serious they felt my feedback was, but perhaps I'll try not to be so impatient next time. The scars of my North Island and Laucala complaints being ignored like whispers into the wind clearly still live with me.
Jun 3, 2017, 12:32 pm
#345
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 361
Also, I get that the hard product is fantastic. They may want to use your pictures for their website, they are again incredible.
On the other hand, your stay sounds like an unfettered disaster. Waiting a long time for drinks, constantly needing to follow up on orders? I might have blown a fuse at a Hilton. At a place that charges Amanzoe's rates, it's just not acceptable at all.
It gives me the impression Aman believes somehow that normal standards of hospitality don't apply to them. They are Aman, so it's fine if they make guests wait 30 minutes for the bread basekt at breakfast. If guests then complain, it means they are peasants who don't get what Aman is? I would have checked out after a couple of nights.
I have just stayed at one Aman (Amnyara, where it was pretty much exactly the same story), and have little appetite to try more at this point.