FlyerTalk Forums - KVS Availability Tool

FlyerTalk Forums (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/index.php)

- Travel Tools (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travel-tools-701/)

- - KVS Availability Tool (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travel-tools/319244-kvs-availability-tool.html)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSteele (Post 16219015)

Just got the tool and liking it. However, I noticed that I got a different *A award availability result for the same flight (LH446 FRA-DEN 11/28/2011) when I searched FRA-DEN, then when I did MXP-DEN w/ the Max option enabled.

FRA-DEN shows 3F/3C available. MXP-DEN lists LH446 as an option, but with no availability in F or C.

Is this a bug in the tool, a flaw in the data source, or am I doing/reading something wrong?

Thanks for the help!

Please see "Segment Marriage Logic" at http://Help.KVSTool.com/#Factors

However, it does not normally apply to Award seats, so you can book segment-by-segment as a work-around.

Although the link doesn't seem to be working, I know what married segments are, I just hadn't considered it. It is a relief to know that it won't factor into my award bookings.

While I like the tool, having to search segment by segment really makes not much more efficient for *A searches than, the ANA site.

KVS and "You have not made any nominations"

Hi,

First time user to KVS and when trying to search for reward flights using the kris.com engine, I keep getting the error "You have not made any nominations".

Can you help me fix this?

Thanks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSteele (Post 16223748)

Although the link doesn't seem to be working, I know what married segments are, I just hadn't considered it. It is a relief to know that it won't factor into my award bookings.

Some of the links at http://Help.KVSTool.com/#Factors have been updated yesterday.

Quote:

While I like the tool, having to search segment by segment really makes not much more efficient for *A searches than, the ANA site.

Well, as one member previously put it:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jumpgate (Post 13401837)

Searches are fast, robust, and easy to use. No back button, no re-filling out forms, no interpreting ANA's different shades of yellow - no web browser period.

I could perform search and search after search on ANA or DL.com using KVS in a fraction of the time it would take using the web sites.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ttpld100105 (Post 16225027)

Hi,

First time user to KVS and when trying to search for reward flights using the kris.com engine, I keep getting the error "You have not made any nominations".

Can you help me fix this?

Thanks.

Welcome to the KVS Tool!

The [Awards/SQ] Method section of the User Guide has now been updated with the following:

In order to be able to check Availability for for more than 1 Seat, your SQ KF account must have the relevant number of Nominees set-up via the Manage Redemption Nominees Section.

Hi, brand new KVS user here, who I am sure will have a number of questions over the next few weeks.

Main reason I bought KVS is to try and book 2 Star alliance J award tickets from Ottawa to Auckland NZ. According to KVS the MPM for YOW-AKL is 10698. This pretty much limits me to YOW via YVR, SFO, LAX direct AKL.

Even routing via SYD goes over the MPM. J availability is pretty well 0 on the above routes, but I can find J if I route YOW-BOS/EWR-ICN-AKL but the mileage here is about 13,000+

So, am I correct in thinking that any routing that exceeds the YOW-AKL MPM of 10698 would not be a legal award routing?

Any suggestions of other routes to look at?

Thanks

ex-egll

I was looking at the availability of AC flights PVG-YYZ on Apr 26. I got this result:

[KVS Availability Tool 6.1.2/Diamond - Sabre: Availability/FS/US-STD]

Code:

PVG  Shanghai PuDong CN [ZSPD]

YYZ  Toronto Pearson Intl ON CA [CYYZ]

TUE  26 Apr 2011



Carrier    Flight  From  Depart    To    Arrive    A/C  St  Availability

---------  ------  ----  --------  ----  --------  ---  --  -----------------------------------------------------------------

AC         88      PVG   17:10     YYZ   18:55     77L      R0 Y2 B2 M2 U0 H0 Q0 V0 W0 S0 T0 L0 K0 G0 J0 C0 D0 Z0

AC         26      PVG   15:55     YVR   11:55     763      R0 Y5 B5 M1 U1 H1 Q1 V1 W0 S0 T0 L0 K0 G0 J0 C0 D0 Z0

 -> AC     102     YVR   13:30     YYZ   20:50     763      R4 Y9 B9 M6 U6 H5 Q0 V0 W0 S0 T0 L0 K0 N0 G0 P0 E0 A0 J9 C9 D7 Z5

AC         26      PVG   15:55     YVR   11:55     763      R0 Y5 B5 M1 U1 H1 Q1 V1 W0 S0 T0 L0 K0 G0 J0 C0 D0 Z0

 -> AC     148     YVR   14:30     YYZ   21:50     320      R0 Y9 B9 M9 U7 H7 Q7 V0 W0 S0 T0 L0 K0 N0 G0 P0 E0 A0 J9 C9 D1 Z1

AC         26      PVG   15:55     YVR   11:55     763      R0 Y7 B7 M0 U0 H0 Q0 V0 W0 G0 S0 T0 L0 K0 J7 C7 D7 Z0

 -> AC     152     YVR   16:55     YYZ   00:15     321      R7 Y7 B7 M7 U7 H0 Q0 V0 N0 W0 G0 S0 P0 T0 E0 L0 A0 K0 J7 C7 D7 Z7

AC         26      PVG   15:55     YVR   11:55     763      R0 Y5 B5 M1 U1 H1 Q1 V1 W0 S0 T0 L0 K0 G0 J2 C2 D2 Z0

 -> AC     156     YVR   22:30     YYZ   05:50     321      R2 Y6 B6 M4 U4 H4 Q4 V2 W0 S0 T0 L0 K0 N2 G0 P0 E0 A0 J6 C6 D2 Z2

Why are these three entries of AC26 different? Married segments?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ex-egll (Post 16239279)

Welcome to the KVS Tool!

For AC Aeroplan redemptions, you can validate routings either using the MPM+5% or a Routing-based Fare (on any *A carrier).

YOW-EWR-ICN-AKL would require MPM+25%, so the only way this would be permitted is if there was a Routing-based Fare with such a routing.

[KVS Availability Tool 6.1.2/Diamond - Reference: Maximum Permitted Mileage [MPM]: YOW-EWR-ICN-AKL]

Code:

                                                                

CTY   DC   TPM   CUM   MPM  DC SUR  HGL   LWL   25M  XTRA       

YOW 1                                                           

NYC 1 WH   331   331                                            

SEL 3 PA  6879  7210  8202  PA  0M   992     0 10252     0      

AKL 3 EH  5998 13208 10698  PA 25M   164   371 13372     0

Quote:

Originally Posted by jarusoba (Post 16241801)

I was looking at the availability of AC flights PVG-YYZ on Apr 26. I got this result:

Why are these three entries of AC26 different? Married segments?

Yes, most likely.

Quote:

YOW-EWR-ICN-AKL would require MPM+25%, so the only way this would be permitted is if there was a Routing-based Fare with such a routing.

Thanks for the response, which immediately leads to the next question; what is a Routing-based Fare, and where can the information be found?

Is it as simple as going to a star alliance carriers web site and pumping in departure point YOW and Destination as AKL, and if the routing provided is (as in the case of LH) YOW-FRA-SIN-AKL-SFO-FRA-YOW, then this is acceptable as an award ticket even though total mileage is around 30,000 vs the MPM of around 21000?

ex-egll

Quote:

Originally Posted by ex-egll (Post 16244116)

Thanks for the response, which immediately leads to the next question; what is a Routing-based Fare, and where can the information be found?

Routing-based Fares do not use MPM. You can retrieve Routing Rules by double-clicking a Fare in the KVS Tool.

Here is an example of a Routing-Based Fare:

[KVS Availability Tool 6.1.2/Diamond - Routing Rules: YOW-AKL/AC/L0LCETO/1462 USD]

Code:

YOWAKL-AC 20APR11      *RULE DISPLAY*     TARIFF 0003 RULE TAC3 

* ADD APPLICABLE TAX * FED INSP FEES *                          

   -FARE BASIS         CAD       NUC                PTC  FT  GI 

L0LCETO              699.00    719.92               ADT  EX  PA 

L0LCETO/CH25         524.00    539.94               CNN  EX  PA 

L0LCETO/IN90          69.00     71.98               INF  EX  PA 

L0LCETO/CH25         524.00    539.94               INS  EX  PA 

L0LCETO              699.00    719.92               UNN  EX  PA 

BOOKING CODES        L                                          

INDUSTRY FARE TYPE - XOX - ECONOMY CLASS OW EXCURSION           

MPM - PA 10698 VIA PACIFIC

---------------------------------------------------------------



ROUTING  630    FROM  YOW-AC-YTO-AC-YQT-AC-YTO-AC-              

                      YWG-AC-YQR/YXE/YMM-AC-YKA/YLW/YYC/YEA-    

                      AC-YVR-                                   

                  TO  AC-LAX-AC-SYD-NZ/QF/JQ/AC-AKL*            

             OR   TO  AC-LAX-AC-AKL*                            

             OR   TO  AC-SFO-AC-AKL*                            

             OR   TO  AC-HNL-AC-AKL*                            

             OR   TO  AC-AKL*

Quote:

Originally Posted by ex-egll (Post 16244116)

Is it as simple as going to a star alliance carriers web site and pumping in departure point YOW and Destination as AKL, and if the routing provided is (as in the case of LH) YOW-FRA-SIN-AKL-SFO-FRA-YOW, then this is acceptable as an award ticket even though total mileage is around 30,000 vs the MPM of around 21000?

No, that website simply provides possible connections; it does not validate MPM or Routing Rules.

Thanks again for the response KVS! That was the missing link for me. With the routing rules available a whole new world opens up!!

ex-egll

Ye Gods, I'm going to stick with Air Traffic Control in future, it's far simpler! More questions if I may. I pumped in YOW-AKL with SQ fro Feb 14 2012 and got the following under the Routing Rules:

Code:

YOWAKL-SQ 20APR11      *RULE DISPLAY*     TARIFF 0003 RULE 5953 

* ADD APPLICABLE TAX * FED INSP FEES *                          

   -FARE BASIS         CAD       NUC                PTC  FT  GI 

B12MSQO             1575.00   1622.16               ADT  EX  PA 

B12MSQO             1380.00   1421.32               ADT  EX  PA 

B12MSQO/CH25        1181.00   1216.62               CNN  EX  PA 

B12MSQO/IN90         157.00    162.20               INF  EX  PA 

B12MSQO/CH25        1181.00   1216.62               INS  EX  PA 

BOOKING CODES        B                                          

INDUSTRY FARE TYPE - SIP - INSTANT PURCHASE                     

MPM - PA 10698 VIA PACIFIC

---------------------------------------------------------------



ROUTING  700    FROM  YOW-AC-YTO/YVR-AC/SQ-SFO/LAX-             

                      SQ-SEL/HKG-                               

             OR FROM  YOW-AC-YTO/YVR-AC/SQ-SFO/LAX-             

                      SQ-SEL-OZ-BJS/SHA/NKG/CAN/HKG/TPE/TYO/    

                      OSA/FUK/BKK/HAN/SGN/MNL-                  

             OR FROM  YOW-AC-YTO/YVR-AC/SQ-SFO/LAX-             

                      SQ-SEL-OZ-TYO-SQ-BKK-                     

             OR FROM  YOW-CO/US-SFO/LAX-SQ-SEL/HKG-             

             OR FROM  YOW-AC-YTO/YVR-AC-LAX-SQ-TYO-             

                      SQ-BKK-                                   

             OR FROM  YOW-AC-YTO/YVR-AC-LAX-SQ-TPE-             

             OR FROM  YOW-CO/US-LAX-SQ-TYO-SQ-BKK-              

                  TO  SQ-SIN-SQ/MI-AKL*

If I take the first line I believe it breaks down to:
YOW to either YYZ or YVR using ONLY AC then
YYZ or YVR to SFO or LAX on AC or SQ** then
SFO or LAX to SEL or HKG on SQ only then
SEL or HKG to SIN on SQ only then
SIN to AKL on SQ or MI

Is this correct?

(would this be SQ code share? as I don't believe they fly that route)

For an Award ticket, if the flights are restricted to SQ AC and MI in this example then they are hard to find (surprise); however there is good availability on OZ and NH to SEL or HKG, is there a way to find fare-based routes that would allow an award ticket on those airlines for LAX-Asia segments?

If I put the same request in using NH as the airline I get the following:

Code:

YOWAKL-YY 20APR11      *RULE DISPLAY*     TARIFF 0003 RULE 66DD 

* ADD APPLICABLE TAX * FED INSP FEES *                          

   -FARE BASIS         CAD       NUC                PTC  FT  GI 

YIF             O   5591.00   5758.44               ADT  NL  PA 

YIF/CH25        O   4193.00   4318.84               CNN  NL  PA 

YIF/CH25        O   4193.00   4318.84               INS  NL  PA 

YIF             O   5591.00   5758.44               UNN  NL  PA 

YIF/IN90        O    559.00    575.84               INF  NL  PA 

BOOKING CODES ENTER>S E SPECIFIC AIRLINE FARES DISPLAY.         

INDUSTRY FARE TYPE -  EU - ECONOMY UNRESTRICTED                 

MPM - PA 10698 VIA PACIFIC

---------------------------------------------------------------



ROUTING MPM  MPM TRVL PERMITTED

This suggests that NH can only be used within the MPM limit which is not possible. Is this a correct interpretation?

Sorry for all the newbie questions

Wooly

Quote:

Originally Posted by ex-egll (Post 16253358)

Ye Gods, I'm going to stick with Air Traffic Control in future, it's far simpler!

Quote:

Originally Posted by ex-egll (Post 16253358)

More questions if I may. I pumped in YOW-AKL with SQ fro Feb 14 2012 and got the following under the Routing Rules:

Code:

YOWAKL-SQ 20APR11      *RULE DISPLAY*     TARIFF 0003 RULE 5953 

* ADD APPLICABLE TAX * FED INSP FEES *                          

   -FARE BASIS         CAD       NUC                PTC  FT  GI 

B12MSQO             1575.00   1622.16               ADT  EX  PA 

B12MSQO             1380.00   1421.32               ADT  EX  PA 

B12MSQO/CH25        1181.00   1216.62               CNN  EX  PA 

B12MSQO/IN90         157.00    162.20               INF  EX  PA 

B12MSQO/CH25        1181.00   1216.62               INS  EX  PA 

BOOKING CODES        B                                          

INDUSTRY FARE TYPE - SIP - INSTANT PURCHASE                     

MPM - PA 10698 VIA PACIFIC

---------------------------------------------------------------



ROUTING  700    FROM  YOW-AC-YTO/YVR-AC/SQ-SFO/LAX-             

                      SQ-SEL/HKG-                               

             OR FROM  YOW-AC-YTO/YVR-AC/SQ-SFO/LAX-             

                      SQ-SEL-OZ-BJS/SHA/NKG/CAN/HKG/TPE/TYO/    

                      OSA/FUK/BKK/HAN/SGN/MNL-                  

             OR FROM  YOW-AC-YTO/YVR-AC/SQ-SFO/LAX-             

                      SQ-SEL-OZ-TYO-SQ-BKK-                     

             OR FROM  YOW-CO/US-SFO/LAX-SQ-SEL/HKG-             

             OR FROM  YOW-AC-YTO/YVR-AC-LAX-SQ-TYO-             

                      SQ-BKK-                                   

             OR FROM  YOW-AC-YTO/YVR-AC-LAX-SQ-TPE-             

             OR FROM  YOW-CO/US-LAX-SQ-TYO-SQ-BKK-              

                  TO  SQ-SIN-SQ/MI-AKL*

Yes, please see also http://Help.KVSTool.com/#Routing_Rules

Quote:

Originally Posted by ex-egll (Post 16253358)

(would this be SQ code share? as I don't believe they fly that route)

Any flight marketed by AC or SQ would satisfy that part of the Rule.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ex-egll (Post 16253358)

If the flights are restricted to SQ AC and MI in this example then they are hard to find (surprise); however there is good availability on OZ and NH to SEL or HKG, is there a way to find fare-based routes that would allow carriage on those airlines? If I put the same request in using NH as the airline I get the following:

Code:

YOWAKL-YY 20APR11      *RULE DISPLAY*     TARIFF 0003 RULE 66DD 

* ADD APPLICABLE TAX * FED INSP FEES *                          

   -FARE BASIS         CAD       NUC                PTC  FT  GI 

YIF             O   5591.00   5758.44               ADT  NL  PA 

YIF/CH25        O   4193.00   4318.84               CNN  NL  PA 

YIF/CH25        O   4193.00   4318.84               INS  NL  PA 

YIF             O   5591.00   5758.44               UNN  NL  PA 

YIF/IN90        O    559.00    575.84               INF  NL  PA 

BOOKING CODES ENTER>S E SPECIFIC AIRLINE FARES DISPLAY.         

INDUSTRY FARE TYPE -  EU - ECONOMY UNRESTRICTED                 

MPM - PA 10698 VIA PACIFIC

---------------------------------------------------------------



ROUTING MPM  MPM TRVL PERMITTED

This suggests that NH can only be used within the MPM limit which is not possible. Is this a correct interpretation?

Neither NH, nor OZ publish any Fares for YOW-AKL.

What you have retrieved (above) is actually a YY Fare:
http://www.KVSTool.com/FAQ.php#IATA_YY_Fares

[KVS Availability Tool 6.1.2/Diamond - Sabre: Fares/DotRes/US]

Code:

YOW  Ottawa Metro / Ottawa Intl ON CA = YOW [CYOW]

AKL  Auckland Intl NZ [NZAA]

O/W  01 May 2011 | Economy



Carrier    From    To    Fare      Cur                      Fare Basis/TD

---------  ------  ----  --------  ----  --------  ---  --  -------------

YY         YOW     AKL      5617   CAD                      YIF

Again Thanks KVS, hopefully the last question for a while, to which I think I know the answer but would like confirmation.

From the previous post SQ has (among many) a fare based routing of:

YOW-YYZ-LAX-SEL-SIN-AKL.

I am assuming this fare based routing applies only to the SQ product and would not allow me to fly different carriers on the same route to access greater availability, in particular a different carrier out of LAX?

Wooly