May 5, 2014, 8:21 pm
Last edit by: Arcanum
Flights operated by Air Canada rouge
NOTE: Rouge Wifi information can be found here
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/air-c...l#post28448087
Dates in brackets indicate planned start of rouge service (either as a new route or replacing mainline service). ML placed before a date indicates the date that service is reverting to mainline.
All Airbus A319/A321 service is in the new Premium Rouge configuration with 2x2J seats. All other routes are Boeing 767-300ER aircraft in a 24J/258Y layout.
Airport codes in blue indicate that these routes are Boeing 767-300ER aircraft for all services.
Airport codes in red indicate that these routes are split between Boeing 767-300ER and Airbus services.
Airport codes in black indicate that these routes are Airbus aircraft for all services.
Routes are organized based on the established rouge bases of YYZ, YUL, YYC, and YVR
*Seasonal Summer Service
YYZ
Canada
YQT YQY YXX YLW YYG (02MAY-OCT) YDF YQB YQM (01MAY19) YFC (01JUL19)
USA
MCO TPA LAS FLL HNL SRQ RSW SAN PHX MIA PSP (14DEC16)
Mexico
CUN PVR SJD
Caribbean
KIN NAS LIR GND MBJ AZS CCC CUR HUX PUJ POP SKB SJO SXM LRM HOG SNU UVF VRA BGI (07JAN) POS (21DEC16)
Europe
ATH BCN EDI VCE MAN LIS PRG BUD GLA LGW
Central and South America
LIM BOG PTY
YUL
USA
LAS MCO FLL PBI TPA MIA
Mexico
CUN MEX PVR (18NOV16)
Caribbean
ZSA CCC HOG PUJ SNU PLS POP PAP NAS (17JAN) PTP
Europe
FCO ATH BCN NCE VCE
Central and South America
SJO (22DEC16)
Africa
CMN
YYC
Canada
YHZ* YHM (2016)
USA
LAS PHX (winter only - PHX AC Express in summer)
YVR
USA
LAS HNL OGG PHX PSP KOA SAN (02JUN)
Mexico
CUN PVR
Asia
KIX
Europe
DUB LGA KEF
What to Do If Your Flight Has Been Rouged According to the AC Rep "Air Canada Altitude": call AC Reservations, cancel and get a refund.
Air Canada rouge, a leisure airline
May 24, 2015, 3:53 pm
#5026
Flying Blue Director
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: CDG/AMS
Posts: 1,864
Good thing the government keeps these statistics, or we would have to believe your baseless statements
http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tabl...ans01b-eng.htm
the load factors for the last two months were:
Feb.2015 - Air Canada: 81.9%, Westjet 84.3%
Mar.2015 - Air Canada: 84.0%, Westjet 81.3%
http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tabl...ans01b-eng.htm
the load factors for the last two months were:
Feb.2015 - Air Canada: 81.9%, Westjet 84.3%
Mar.2015 - Air Canada: 84.0%, Westjet 81.3%
Systemwide capacity is not a tangible indicator of profitability or success of an airline, nor a viable comparison when one has about triple the ASMs, nor when it ignores capacity growth (e.g. 80% of 1000 seats less than 75% of 2000 seats). Furthermore, 100% PLF is actually not what you want as it means you are spilling (selling seats for less than you might otherwise). Pretty sure any airline could fill to 100% at $1 fares.
May 24, 2015, 4:09 pm
#5027
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: sqrt(-united states of apologist)
Programs: *$ Green
Posts: 5,403
Well I suppose it might be, if this statistic weren't completely irrelevant.
Systemwide capacity is not a tangible indicator of profitability or success of an airline, nor a viable comparison when one has about triple the ASMs, nor when it ignores capacity growth (e.g. 80% of 1000 seats less than 75% of 2000 seats). Furthermore, 100% PLF is actually not what you want as it means you are spilling (selling seats for less than you might otherwise). Pretty sure any airline could fill to 100% at $1 fares.
Systemwide capacity is not a tangible indicator of profitability or success of an airline, nor a viable comparison when one has about triple the ASMs, nor when it ignores capacity growth (e.g. 80% of 1000 seats less than 75% of 2000 seats). Furthermore, 100% PLF is actually not what you want as it means you are spilling (selling seats for less than you might otherwise). Pretty sure any airline could fill to 100% at $1 fares.
Was expecting "maximizing producer surplus"!
May 24, 2015, 4:14 pm
#5028
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Canada
Programs: UA*1K MM SK EBG LATAM BL
Posts: 23,309
May 24, 2015, 4:22 pm
#5029
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: YVR
Programs: AC*SE MM, Marriott Lifetime Titanium
Posts: 4,604
Yes, and it's not very sustainable. I just pulled up an old receipt I had from Jetsgo with their pay one way, return for $1 promo: YYZ-YVR round trip for $230.14 a/i for April 2004.
Also reminded me why I council my friends to never pay for an airline ticket on debit!
Also reminded me why I council my friends to never pay for an airline ticket on debit!
May 24, 2015, 9:48 pm
#5030
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: YVR
Programs: AC SE*2MM. SPG Plat life
Posts: 4,644
May 25, 2015, 6:58 am
#5031
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Canada
Programs: UA*1K MM SK EBG LATAM BL
Posts: 23,309
Theory is great, but I am still waiting for you to provide an example of specific route loads between two (or more) competitors (you pick) to which your theory of rates being based on loads applies.
If you dont have a specific case, you are speculating, considering none of us actually knows how the revenue management algorithms work, I can speculate as much that rates are based on phases of the moon.
May 25, 2015, 8:34 am
#5032
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: sqrt(-united states of apologist)
Programs: *$ Green
Posts: 5,403
Spare me the economics lesson. I do that for a living.
Theory is great, but I am still waiting for you to provide an example of specific route loads between two (or more) competitors (you pick) to which your theory of rates being based on loads applies.
If you dont have a specific case, you are speculating, considering none of us actually knows how the revenue management algorithms work, I can speculate as much that rates are based on phases of the moon.
Theory is great, but I am still waiting for you to provide an example of specific route loads between two (or more) competitors (you pick) to which your theory of rates being based on loads applies.
If you dont have a specific case, you are speculating, considering none of us actually knows how the revenue management algorithms work, I can speculate as much that rates are based on phases of the moon.
If you do econ for a living, I don't understand why you need any explaining/proof for this price differential
What is it exactly that we are discussing here? Is it just a random Wpgjetse vs Rankourabu debate, or is there something that is actually not understood about why these prices are so different?
May 25, 2015, 8:49 am
#5033
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Canada
Programs: UA*1K MM SK EBG LATAM BL
Posts: 23,309
Its like saying: price is based on demand alone.
It could be monkeys, we dont know that its not
May 25, 2015, 9:19 am
#5034
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: sqrt(-united states of apologist)
Programs: *$ Green
Posts: 5,403
Don't forget. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
May 25, 2015, 1:58 pm
#5035
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: YVR
Programs: AC SE*2MM. SPG Plat life
Posts: 4,644
Spare me the economics lesson. I do that for a living.
Theory is great, but I am still waiting for you to provide an example of specific route loads between two (or more) competitors (you pick) to which your theory of rates being based on loads applies.
If you dont have a specific case, you are speculating, considering none of us actually knows how the revenue management algorithms work, I can speculate as much that rates are based on phases of the moon.
Theory is great, but I am still waiting for you to provide an example of specific route loads between two (or more) competitors (you pick) to which your theory of rates being based on loads applies.
If you dont have a specific case, you are speculating, considering none of us actually knows how the revenue management algorithms work, I can speculate as much that rates are based on phases of the moon.
This is very easy. Pick a flight in the future and look at the cost of that flight. As you get closer to the date of the flight, keep checking. As the airline sells seats on that flight(load), the prices start to increase and some classes like tango sell out. Since this is your profession you should understand this better than most of us on FT.
May 25, 2015, 2:10 pm
#5036
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Canada
Programs: UA*1K MM SK EBG LATAM BL
Posts: 23,309
This is very easy. Pick a flight in the future and look at the cost of that flight. As you get closer to the date of the flight, keep checking. As the airline sells seats on that flight(load), the prices start to increase and some classes like tango sell out. Since this is your profession you should understand this better than most of us on FT.
What you are saying that if I want a flight for lets say Feb.2016, it will be cheapest today, and as the result of the airline selling more and more seats, prices will only go up from here, and it will never cost less than today.
May 25, 2015, 2:30 pm
#5037
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: YVR
Programs: AC SE*2MM. SPG Plat life
Posts: 4,644
Plenty of times ticket prices come down as time goes on.
What you are saying that if I want a flight for lets say Feb.2016, it will be cheapest today, and as the result of the airline selling more and more seats, prices will only go up from here, and it will never cost less than today.
What you are saying that if I want a flight for lets say Feb.2016, it will be cheapest today, and as the result of the airline selling more and more seats, prices will only go up from here, and it will never cost less than today.
May 25, 2015, 2:33 pm
#5038
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Canada
Programs: UA*1K MM SK EBG LATAM BL
Posts: 23,309
ok if you are going to stick to the theory that Rouge pricing is only affected by supply and demand/loads, and there are no other factors, I m just going to leave it at that.
May 25, 2015, 4:44 pm
#5039
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: YVR
Programs: AC SE*2MM. SPG Plat life
Posts: 4,644
Yes, there are other factors, but since you are in this line of work(economic), you should generally know them.
May 25, 2015, 5:10 pm
#5040
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: YYZ
Programs: AC*SE 2MM
Posts: 16,655
Of course there are other factors likely including but not limited to:
- competitive pricing
- desire to create real or perceived "sales" on fares
- predicted demand (e.g. why prices are often higher around Christmas even if few seats are sold)
- significant deviations from predicted demand
- cost