Genetk44

Well hello....if you have been paying X dollars for a certain product and suddenly your are getting less than that particular product for the same Xdollars you are going to feel that it's not cheaper and your getting less as you put it....makes perfect sense.

Don't forget....AC didn't just make one or two changes to save money, they completely changed,to the detriment of the passengers, the whole product. They didn't just change( lessen) the legroom....they crammed in more passengers by using thinner,smaller and far more uncomfortable seats than before, they totally did away with in-seat IFE, apparently downgraded the actual quality of the movies available via the iPad app , did away with the individual reading lights and climate control vents.....and totally reduced the amount of storage space in the cabin. I'd call that a 50% reduction in the quality of the product that I used to purchase...... And no noticeable reduction in cost to the paying passenger!
And we haven't even included the food/beverage issues or the FAs in that calculation.

And you are wondering why people are complaining about "Its not cheaper and I'm getting less." Seriously????

Oh!!! Now throw all those people who bought AC mainline product and got the Rouge baitandswitch and the stupidity of AC marketing to the public that Rouge was the new low-cost carrier( very misleading) into the mix and it's no wonder people feel like they are being ripped-off and lied to.

Drewz

I noticed on my last two Rouge flights, I've been checked into Business Standby (on my mobile check-in) and bumped free to Premium Rouge. Maybe trying to make it up to their frequent flyers?

YYZguy99

They may well have been profitable.
Companies I consult to often consider changing a product to improve margin. They also carefully consider the impact these changes could have on their brand as the brand is sacred to most international firms (like AC).

Cranking the numbers as I understand them, hard to believed that changing from ML to Rouge (or Ruse as the product should be called in my opinion) surely cannot make that much difference to overall margins. My sense is AC will have long term degradation of their brand because of the negative impact Rouge will have on the overall franchise. The public is not stupid and will soon realize what I have found and that is you pay full price for a downgraded product. Once that happens and Rouge has to price at AT levels then the margin improvement being claimed will evaporate.

There are other strategies that likely would have been better for AC to employ that would have better maintained their brand long term while offering the superior ML product many of us would like to have to places like DUB; LAS et cetera.

YYZguy99

There has been a huge backlash against Rouge in our firm and a decision was taken to find alternatives to get to board meetings in DUB and Barbados this summer, fall and winter. We were pleased when our AC rep told us last week that Barbados was going back to ML as of October. I was not aware until this past week of the change and, based on what was my understanding (clearly wrong) that this was a more recent decision by AC. Not sure why our AC rep would not have told us about Barbados during our complaint session in mid June as we buy over 60 round trips a winter to Barbados to attend various meetings that we made it clear were not happening on Rouge (Ruse ) .

PLeblond

I would not consider a 20%+ reduction in operating costs to be "not that much difference in overall margin". Especially in the airline industry where margins are slim.

I see by your comments that we are on different planets in terms of understanding, so I'll end our discussion immediately. Have a great day!!!

moorw003

I know it's a matter of opinion, but the 767 to Dublin isn't that bad. More importantly, against the competition, Aer Lingus by Air Contractors and Air Transat, the planes are better.

If this is a cost issue, and on your dates they are cheaper, then by all means fly the Transat 310, with 16.5 width. I wouldn't personally be put off, I've been on the plane before and would do again, and I wouldn't attempt to put you off doing so.

But I find it interesting your company is looking at alternatives because the experience was bad, but it's the best offering. Ok, it's very unspectacular bunch, but that's not the point.

What I will say is there are alternatives. Air Canada via London is usually the same price being one or there's the US airlines via the states. Both are a considerable PITA for business purposes, but serious options.

But yeh, if you want direct, cost is really the only grounds for moving to someone else on that route. A very good ground for flying someone else, but you can't use the Rouge service as a stick to beat AC with on the Dublin route.... it's the presence of Aer Lingus by Air Contractors and Air Transat charging cheap prices that make mainline totally unviable. Mainline planes wouldn't have any passengers on them at cost price, and even if they did fill the planes at by lowering prices, losses would be phenomenal.

And if you are using cost as the stick, saying "yeh but Rouge cuts costs but why are they still not always matching Aer Lingus and Air Transat". Remember, both these airlines are leasing 30 year old aircraft for the trip. Rouge might be lower cost, but it costs more to run than both competitors. Food for thought sir.

CloudsBelow

AC has lost hundreds of millions of dollars the last dozen years.
And some believe they would drastically change the offering by Rouging the routes that were profitable during those years? Seriously?
And, I assume, leave the routes bleeding money relatively unchanged?
Gotcha
Can you consult us here on what would happen if AC left their money losing operation unchanged?
What would you suggest they do, exactly?
And, Why could they not command sufficient yield with their incredible brand to be profitable? Don't people pay a premium for products of admired brands?

winnipegrev

It isn't like AC's brand was bulletproof and only had strong praise from Canadians before July 2013. Those who suggest AC's brand is being seriously tarnished by Rouge are a little out to lunch, imho.

yulred

If we go by your logic, unprofitable company = all routes unprofitable. We both know that's not the case. The routes could be operationally profitable, but the company could still be unprofitable, depending on whether those costs not directly associated with the cost of operating a flight are generating as much value as they're costing. That's a question of mismanagement, not profitability of a route.

In short, if HR or marketing or IT or whatever is costing $X million in value, and generating $Y million in value, where X>Y, it does not follow that any specific route is a loss-maker; it simply means that the route isn't producing enough money to paper over inefficiencies elsewhere. So you crank up revenue to Rouge wherever you can without bleeding pax, which is what we're seeing.

It would also make sense to Rouge all routes, including profitable ones, since theargon would be 20% greater. The only thing stopping them (from what I ve read around here) is restrictions in labor contracts.

Why wouldn't you try to increase profits by 20% if you had free rein to do so? I genuinely expect Rouge to become standard on domestic routes over time - particularly short haul domestic, though I suspect there are contractual obligations might delay it.

Jebby_ca

I noticed on the Air Canada rouge iPads, there are two apps - the regular player, and then a 'plus' player.

The regular player app had access to older movies, while the 'plus' app had access to the new releases.

Has anyone else noticed this? I can't find the 'plus' app in the app store.

yvr76

Yes, the Plus Player is only available on their iPads. Additionally, from my experience the Plus Player movies are lower in quality, and I don't believe they stream.

Jebby_ca

The PA announcements don't interrupt the Plus Player movies.

AA_EXP09

DUB was always dead easy as it is easy to connect in FRA to get there...

PLeblond

So you would use an 11+ hour itinerary with a connection to a Euro single aisle plane to avoid Rouge on a 6 hour 767 flight?

AA_EXP09

FRADUB is only 2 hours so not a huge problem.