Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion.
Sep 6, 2020, 12:16 am
Join Date: Jun 2008
Programs: TK*G (E+), IHG Plat Ambassador
Posts: 7,884
16. In 1983, this airline introduced a business class product it called "Super Executive" class. The air carrier in question also claimed it had reduced the number of seats in its business class from an average of 48 to 28 in order to provide "a less crowded cabin" with the service offering larger 26 inch wide seats, 60% increased seat recline, enhanced cuisine and wines, and special ground service. Name the air carrier and the aircraft type which featured "Super Executive" class.
Cruising right along here.....
Cruising right along here.....
) in late 80's their long haul DC-10-30 and B747-200 Business Class was called 'Super Executive'. On short haul BAC's it was called just 'Executive'. So maybe this naming convention existed since 1993?
Sep 6, 2020, 1:44 am
Join Date: Jun 2008
Programs: TK*G (E+), IHG Plat Ambassador
Posts: 7,884
OT – the 1987 SU ticket from a ‘secret’ airport
This post refers to my original post: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/32639812-post20227.html
So, I have found it!
Here we are:
As you could see the price was cut with scissors. The price was 38 RUB. In theory during the Soviet days 1 RUB = 1 USD, but of course it was an artificial rate of exchange that had nothing to do with reality. My first time in the USSR was in 1990 and we had caviar for breakfast, lunch and dinner as after changing USD to RUB on the black market everything was dirty cheap for us.
The stamp on the left-hand side has a large letter D (in Cyrillic – the whole ticket is only in Cyrillic) and city code BRT (today it is BTQ). Bear in mind that Brest was a ‘secret’ airport hidden from the Western world and not listed in OAG/ABC – so they could use any code they wanted.
The other longer stamp means ‘round trip’.
Handwritten 38 probably refers to the price.
Handwritten 1.30 is the suggested check-in time (before departure) at Brest airport.
Below is the name (phonetical transcription as the passenger was not a Soviet national, I erased the name as this person is still alive and actually lives close to my childhood place).
In the yellow box you have the route – from Brest (now BTQ) to Minvody (today’s Mineralnye Vody – MRV).
Then you have the flight number, date and departure time (in Moscow time!!!!).
MECTO = ‘myiesto’ = seat number is 7B. No boarding pass was issued. Your ticket was your Boarding Pass.
Date of issue is 1 July 1987.
On the left hand-side you have price, tax, total.
Below 1 RUB tax is a box named ‘po dokyiumentu’ = per document. I cannot read what is written there.
Next to the tax is a box named ‘vid bylieta’ = ticket type. The handwriting is so bad I cannot read it – something like ‘kashoi’ – I have no idea what it means. Any native Russian speakers around?
There was no form of payment information as there were no credit cards in the USSR - it had to be cash
The other side:
The only interesting part is a reminder in the second paragraph, that all times are quoted in Moscow time.
Also there is a reminder that smoking is not permitted on SU flights. Was smoking still permitted in the West in 1987? I think so...
Side effects:
- Many years ago, when I left the house, my mother adopted my room for a bedroom (as it is a large, sunny room). But there are still 2 large drawers of my stuff there. Yesterday I spent like 1 hour looking for this ticket. For my mother it was the final confirmation his eldest son must be crazy
- Other stuff found:
o My first 1989 TATL PAA (Pan Am) boarding pass and ticket
o My first 1993 TPAC DAL (Delta) boarding pass (in Business Class – then novelty for me)
o The 1989 handwritten OS WAW-VIE B/Pass
o The 1989 Faucett Peruvian domestic ticket (I didn’t even remember I was in Peru in 1989)
o The 1999 TANS Peruvian domestic ticket – TANS was an airline owned by the military that crashed fairly regularly. The airline ceased operation when military realized they have no clue how to run a civil airline (hmmm - somehow Thai Airways comes to my mind).
The transcription from Cyrillic is mine and most likely not 100% correct.
I hope, I still have the 1996 Sirena handwritten ticket from Brest to Minvody (given to me from someone who actually flew on that route, who knew I then was an avgeek). If you go to the 1996 ABC World Airline Guide (European equivalent of OAG) the only Brest (BES airport code) you will see would be in FR. But the ticket I have is from Brest in today’s Belorussia (today’s code: BQT), which was an airport hidden from the Western world – thus not even listed in ABC/OAG.
Here we are:
As you could see the price was cut with scissors. The price was 38 RUB. In theory during the Soviet days 1 RUB = 1 USD, but of course it was an artificial rate of exchange that had nothing to do with reality. My first time in the USSR was in 1990 and we had caviar for breakfast, lunch and dinner as after changing USD to RUB on the black market everything was dirty cheap for us.The stamp on the left-hand side has a large letter D (in Cyrillic – the whole ticket is only in Cyrillic) and city code BRT (today it is BTQ). Bear in mind that Brest was a ‘secret’ airport hidden from the Western world and not listed in OAG/ABC – so they could use any code they wanted.
The other longer stamp means ‘round trip’.
Handwritten 38 probably refers to the price.
Handwritten 1.30 is the suggested check-in time (before departure) at Brest airport.
Below is the name (phonetical transcription as the passenger was not a Soviet national, I erased the name as this person is still alive and actually lives close to my childhood place).
In the yellow box you have the route – from Brest (now BTQ) to Minvody (today’s Mineralnye Vody – MRV).
Then you have the flight number, date and departure time (in Moscow time!!!!).
MECTO = ‘myiesto’ = seat number is 7B. No boarding pass was issued. Your ticket was your Boarding Pass.
Date of issue is 1 July 1987.
On the left hand-side you have price, tax, total.
Below 1 RUB tax is a box named ‘po dokyiumentu’ = per document. I cannot read what is written there.
Next to the tax is a box named ‘vid bylieta’ = ticket type. The handwriting is so bad I cannot read it – something like ‘kashoi’ – I have no idea what it means. Any native Russian speakers around?
There was no form of payment information as there were no credit cards in the USSR - it had to be cash
The other side:
The only interesting part is a reminder in the second paragraph, that all times are quoted in Moscow time.
Also there is a reminder that smoking is not permitted on SU flights. Was smoking still permitted in the West in 1987? I think so...
Side effects:
- Many years ago, when I left the house, my mother adopted my room for a bedroom (as it is a large, sunny room). But there are still 2 large drawers of my stuff there. Yesterday I spent like 1 hour looking for this ticket. For my mother it was the final confirmation his eldest son must be crazy
- Other stuff found:
o My first 1989 TATL PAA (Pan Am) boarding pass and ticket
o My first 1993 TPAC DAL (Delta) boarding pass (in Business Class – then novelty for me)
o The 1989 handwritten OS WAW-VIE B/Pass
o The 1989 Faucett Peruvian domestic ticket (I didn’t even remember I was in Peru in 1989)
o The 1999 TANS Peruvian domestic ticket – TANS was an airline owned by the military that crashed fairly regularly. The airline ceased operation when military realized they have no clue how to run a civil airline (hmmm - somehow Thai Airways comes to my mind
).The transcription from Cyrillic is mine and most likely not 100% correct.
Last edited by TPJ; Sep 6, 2020 at 2:08 am Reason: gramar
Sep 6, 2020, 7:37 am
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: LFT
Programs: AA Plat, lots of AA, AS, DL, UA miles, former top level CO Elite (sigh...)
Posts: 10,835
And now back to live coverage of the Tour de France. I've been up since dawn watching the riders race in the beautiful Pyrenees mountains in the south of France near the border with Spain.....
Sep 6, 2020, 7:40 am
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: LFT
Programs: AA Plat, lots of AA, AS, DL, UA miles, former top level CO Elite (sigh...)
Posts: 10,835
Let me try with BCAL - British Caledonian. I think I recall (OK - I am 70% confident ) in late 80's their long haul DC-10-30 and B747-200 Business Class was called 'Super Executive'. On short haul BAC's it was called just 'Executive'. So maybe this naming convention existed since 1993?
) in late 80's their long haul DC-10-30 and B747-200 Business Class was called 'Super Executive'. On short haul BAC's it was called just 'Executive'. So maybe this naming convention existed since 1993?http://www.departedflights.com/BRsuperexecutive83.html
P.S. - I subsequently looked at several photos of British Caledonian aircraft from 1983 and discovered the airline was not only operating DC-10-30 but also DC-10-10 and B747-200 equipment as well that same year.
Last edited by jlemon; Sep 6, 2020 at 2:09 pm Reason: P.S. - BCal aircraft in 1983
Sep 6, 2020, 8:03 am
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: LFT
Programs: AA Plat, lots of AA, AS, DL, UA miles, former top level CO Elite (sigh...)
Posts: 10,835
As always, please limit your responses to two quiz items per day so that all may participate. And we are looking for as much detail as possible with regard to specific aircraft types. When in doubt, let the OAG equipment codes be your guide. Thanks!
1. In 1962, North Central Airlines was serving two airports in Canada. Name them both. ANSWERED
4. Now it's 1968 and you are preparing to depart from Los Angeles to Rio de Janeiro. Your flight only operates on Saturdays and will make three stops en route. Identify the airline, all three stops and the aircraft. The airline was Aerolineas Peruanas S.A. (APSA) and the equipment was a Convair 990A. One of the stops was Lima......but LIM wasn't the third stop and this flight did not stop at MEX, PTY, GUA or GYE.
7. It's 1975.You have been enjoying an extended cruise on the Amazon River in Brazil and are now in Belem. It's been a great adventure but business calls and that means a trip to Paris. You've found a very convenient connecting service operated twice a week involving two airlines which actually appears in the timetable of the first air carrier you will fly with from Belem. Your first flight will be nonstop to the airport where the connection will be made with 90 minutes on the ground. And your second flight will be nonstop as well. Identify both air carriers, the connecting city and the different aircraft types operated on each flight.
11. Now it's 1977 and you are in Manchester in the UK. You are once again headed to Rio de Janeiro and will have to make a connection with the same airline operating both flights. Your first flight will be nonstop to the connection airport where you will be on the ground for one hour and 50 minutes. Your second flight will make one stop en route. Name the air carrier, the connecting airport, the stop made by the second flight and the different aircraft types operated on each flight. ANSWERED
12. You've been attending a convention in Las Vegas in 1979 and need to travel to Baltimore on business. You're in no hurry and have found an interesting flight which will make four stops en route and operates daily. Identify the airline, all four stops in order and the equipment. ANSWERED
17. It's 1984 and you are back in Belem in Brazil. This time you are headed to Miami and have found an interesting connecting service which is offered on a weekly basis with both flights being operated by the same airline. These flights are also operated with the same equipment with this aircraft being configured with 20 seats in first class. You book seats in first, of course. Your first flight will make one stop en route to the connecting airport where you will be on the ground for one hour and five minutes. Your second flight will also make one stop en route. Identify the air carrier, the stop made by the first flight, the connecting city, the stop made by the second flight and the equipment.
Last edited by jlemon; Sep 8, 2020 at 12:12 pm Reason: answer update
Sep 6, 2020, 3:31 pm
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: London, England.
Programs: BA
Posts: 8,503
11. Now it's 1977 and you are in Manchester in the UK. You are once again headed to Rio de Janeiro and will have to make a connection with the same airline operating both flights. Your first flight will be nonstop to the connection airport where you will be on the ground for one hour and 50 minutes. Your second flight will make one stop en route. Name the air carrier, the connecting airport, the stop made by the second flight and the different aircraft types operated on each flight. It wasn't KLM, the first flight wasn't operated with a DC9 or D9S, the connection was not made at AMS, and the second flight was not operated with a DC-10 and did not stop at LIS
Now Manchester to Paris would still be a Caravelle then. I've got a sneaky feeling that the connection there may be onto ... Concorde ! Routing Paris-Dakar-Rio.
Sep 6, 2020, 3:47 pm
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: LFT
Programs: AA Plat, lots of AA, AS, DL, UA miles, former top level CO Elite (sigh...)
Posts: 10,835
OK. Same airline. It's not going to be a UK airline as B Cal did London Gatwick to South America, while British Island Heralds did Gatwick to Manchester, so a European carrier. Not many did Manchester in 1977, if not KLM then Air France.
Now Manchester to Paris would still be a Caravelle then. I've got a sneaky feeling that the connection there may be onto ... Concorde ! Routing Paris-Dakar-Rio.
Now Manchester to Paris would still be a Caravelle then. I've got a sneaky feeling that the connection there may be onto ... Concorde ! Routing Paris-Dakar-Rio.
AF 961: Manchester (MAN) 08:50 - 11:10 Paris Charles de Gaulle (CDG)
Freq: Daily
Service classes: F/Y
Meal service: Breakfast
Equip: Caravelle
Connecting to....
AF 085: Paris Charles de Gaulle (CDG) 13:00 - 14:00 Dakar (DKR) 14:50 - 15:00 Rio de Janeiro Galeao (GIG)
Freq: Wednesdays and Sundays only
Service class: R
Meal services: Lunch CDG-DKR, Snack DKR-GIG
Equip: CONCORDE
Note: local traffic subject to special conditions CDG-DKR & no local traffic DKR-GIG
Last edited by jlemon; Sep 6, 2020 at 3:56 pm Reason: note concerning local traffic CDG-DKR-GIG
Sep 6, 2020, 4:15 pm
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: London, England.
Programs: BA
Posts: 8,503
Well ... that was a guess. The longstanding Air France just once-daily flight from Manchester was always early in the morning. It used to overnight there, and was always parked on the remote stands on the far side of the apron directly in front of the terminal windows when you went for (or to meet) any early flight. I believe it later changed to a very early inbound from Paris, turning round to this departure. Air France Caravelles continued to Manchester long after they ended scheduled runs to London.
Sep 6, 2020, 5:46 pm
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: London, England.
Programs: BA
Posts: 8,503
.I subsequently looked at several photos of British Caledonian aircraft from 1983 and discovered the airline was not only operating DC-10-30 but also DC-10-10 and B747-200 equipment as well that same year.
We went on G-BZJD, both ways, in early 1984 on Gatwick to Faro, a classic holiday airline route. Cabin crew in full B Cal tartan skirt uniform. I see it's still around as N10060 with FedEx; only this evening it's at Chicago with them. If you see her in the next few days, give this onetime-Laker, onetime-British Caley aircraft a little wave from me as a memory of a very pleasant holiday in Portugal in an OSL villa.
Sep 6, 2020, 7:06 pm
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: SEA — the REAL Washington; occasionally (but a lot less often than before) in the other Washington (DCA area)
Programs: DL PM 1.57MM; AS MVPG 100K (closing in on 0.5MM)
Posts: 21,636
12.You've been attending a convention in Las Vegas in 1979 and need to travel to Baltimore on business. You're in no hurry and have found an interesting flight which will make four stops en route and operates daily. Identify the airline, all four stops in order and the equipment.
that said, the intermediate destinations fall rather neatly into two groups of four, one on a rather direct route and the other a more roundabout one, so while my initial guess here will obviously be incorrect, I’m hoping it will at least narrow the field for the next guess or two
LAS-DFW-Shreveport/SHV-Baton Rouge/BTR-ATL-BAL
Sep 7, 2020, 7:20 am
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: London, England.
Programs: BA
Posts: 8,503
17. It's 1984 and you are back in Belem in Brazil. This time you are headed to Miami and have found an interesting connecting service which is offered on a weekly basis with both flights being operated by the same airline. These flights are also operated with the same equipment with this aircraft being configured with 20 seats in first class. You book seats in first, of course. Your first flight will make one stop en route to the connecting airport where you will be on the ground for one hour and five minutes. Your second flight will also make one stop en route. Identify the air carrier, the stop made by the first flight, the connecting city, the stop made by the second flight and the equipment.
Sep 7, 2020, 11:35 am
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: LFT
Programs: AA Plat, lots of AA, AS, DL, UA miles, former top level CO Elite (sigh...)
Posts: 10,835
12- this sounds very much like one of Delta’s classic mid-South milk runs, operated with a 727-232 ... the first and last stops were of course the respective hubs at Dallas/DFW and Atlanta/ATL, but they ran probably half a dozen daily flights with two or three enroute stops between those two points, and I can immediately name eight cities that one or another of those flights served
that said, the intermediate destinations fall rather neatly into two groups of four, one on a rather direct route and the other a more roundabout one, so while my initial guess here will obviously be incorrect, I’m hoping it will at least narrow the field for the next guess or two
LAS-DFW-Shreveport/SHV-Baton Rouge/BTR-ATL-BAL
that said, the intermediate destinations fall rather neatly into two groups of four, one on a rather direct route and the other a more roundabout one, so while my initial guess here will obviously be incorrect, I’m hoping it will at least narrow the field for the next guess or two
LAS-DFW-Shreveport/SHV-Baton Rouge/BTR-ATL-BAL
Sep 7, 2020, 11:40 am
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: LFT
Programs: AA Plat, lots of AA, AS, DL, UA miles, former top level CO Elite (sigh...)
Posts: 10,835
17. Ah, it wasn't ALM and the equipment in question was actually larger than a DC9. And the connection was made at Paramaribo but stops were not made in Curacao or Aruba.
Sep 7, 2020, 11:44 am
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: LFT
Programs: AA Plat, lots of AA, AS, DL, UA miles, former top level CO Elite (sigh...)
Posts: 10,835
The two DC-10-10s did not operate anything in the main B Cal timetable, but were former Laker aircraft which had been fully committed for holiday flights to the Rank company, who had various holiday brands like OSL https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnQOnL_y24c which has now ended up with TUI. When Laker went under in 1982 they were very rapidly moved, within days, on to British Caledonian, where they continued as before. Got renamed British Caledonian Charter, then a separate operation was set up with 50-50 actual ownership with Rank, called Cal-Air, then changed again to Novair. By one of life's coincidences our office nowadays is the onetime building that Rank built in about 1990 for their holiday reservation telesales people.
Sep 8, 2020, 1:25 am
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: SEA — the REAL Washington; occasionally (but a lot less often than before) in the other Washington (DCA area)
Programs: DL PM 1.57MM; AS MVPG 100K (closing in on 0.5MM)
Posts: 21,636
) — Lafayette/LFT