View Poll Results: Q: What is your view on FlyerTalk implementing a "Helpful" button feature?
Support
433
59.72%
Oppose
275
37.93%
No opinion
17
2.34%
Voters: 725. You may not vote on this poll
Jan 12, 2015, 9:07 pm
Last edit by: Prospero
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Some FTers are supportive of like/helpful button. Some are not. Some on both sides of the issue have questions, concerns and/or need more info. This wiki attempts to highlight them in bullet format/"cliff notes" version from the 566 posts in this thread. More detailed information regarding the pros/cons/questions/concerns/info can be garnered by reading the entire thread, where FTers on both sides of the like/helpful button have been eloquent/provided valuable input.
Pros:
* Makes Flyertalk more modern; more like Facebook, LinkedIn, and other progressive internet bulletin boards
* A like/helpful button would minimize unnecessary replies such as +1.
* Streamlines posts
* Positive feedback incentivizes quality content/FTers will post more
* Some people wont take time to write a thank you but will post a like
* Those with more likes/helpfuls are considered knowledgable
Cons:
* Makes it easier for airlines/companies to find mistake fares/glitches/underground tricks
* Makes Flyertalk more like Facebook/dumbs it down
* FT had rating system here years ago and it did not go well
* System can be gamed/cliques develop
* Clutters up posts/takes up valuable screen space
* Will not eliminate +1s/+1s also provide positive feedback
* Posts that have inaccurate info can also get likes/doesn't mean poster is knowledgable
* If FTers post info & it doesn't get likes/helpfuls, less incentive to post more
* Some who might have posted info in the past will now just post like, so less information provided to other FTers.
* Older posts will tend to have more likes/helpfuls on average than newer posts in the same thread, which can be misleading when the information is out-of-date. [added by MSPeconomist]
Questions, concerns about how it will work, and/or information based on brief internal trial already done
* If implemented, can FTers who prefer not to utilize the like/helpful button turn it off so that they don't see it?
* Is there a software way to separate likes of posts from posters? (Limited trial indicates no; don't know if software can be changed to do so)
* Can a post/day count be implemented before implementing for FTers, similar Omni/CC? (Yes)
* Can certain forums have it turned off such as Omni? (No, current software is it's either all forums or none)
* If a sitewide trial is created, what are the metrics for success or failure?
* What is the goal of this/how will the data be used?
* If customization of current software is required, will this take away from development on other projects such as a better mobile app?
* Will or can there be a dislike/unhelpful button?
* What happens if a post that is "liked" gets its content edited and ends up having a different meaning than it initially had at the time the post was "liked"?
* Can threads or individual posts deemed helpful be bookmarked/saved?
* Can users "opt out" and select to remove all trace of the system, as is currently possible with the ignore list and removing view of signatures?
(lower right wiki corner)Some FTers are supportive of like/helpful button. Some are not. Some on both sides of the issue have questions, concerns and/or need more info. This wiki attempts to highlight them in bullet format/"cliff notes" version from the 566 posts in this thread. More detailed information regarding the pros/cons/questions/concerns/info can be garnered by reading the entire thread, where FTers on both sides of the like/helpful button have been eloquent/provided valuable input.
Pros:
* Makes Flyertalk more modern; more like Facebook, LinkedIn, and other progressive internet bulletin boards
* A like/helpful button would minimize unnecessary replies such as +1.
* Streamlines posts
* Positive feedback incentivizes quality content/FTers will post more
* Some people wont take time to write a thank you but will post a like
* Those with more likes/helpfuls are considered knowledgable
Cons:
* Makes it easier for airlines/companies to find mistake fares/glitches/underground tricks
* Makes Flyertalk more like Facebook/dumbs it down
* FT had rating system here years ago and it did not go well
* System can be gamed/cliques develop
* Clutters up posts/takes up valuable screen space
* Will not eliminate +1s/+1s also provide positive feedback
* Posts that have inaccurate info can also get likes/doesn't mean poster is knowledgable
* If FTers post info & it doesn't get likes/helpfuls, less incentive to post more
* Some who might have posted info in the past will now just post like, so less information provided to other FTers.
* Older posts will tend to have more likes/helpfuls on average than newer posts in the same thread, which can be misleading when the information is out-of-date. [added by MSPeconomist]
Questions, concerns about how it will work, and/or information based on brief internal trial already done
* If implemented, can FTers who prefer not to utilize the like/helpful button turn it off so that they don't see it?
* Is there a software way to separate likes of posts from posters? (Limited trial indicates no; don't know if software can be changed to do so)
* Can a post/day count be implemented before implementing for FTers, similar Omni/CC? (Yes)
* Can certain forums have it turned off such as Omni? (No, current software is it's either all forums or none)
* If a sitewide trial is created, what are the metrics for success or failure?
* What is the goal of this/how will the data be used?
* If customization of current software is required, will this take away from development on other projects such as a better mobile app?
* Will or can there be a dislike/unhelpful button?
* What happens if a post that is "liked" gets its content edited and ends up having a different meaning than it initially had at the time the post was "liked"?
* Can threads or individual posts deemed helpful be bookmarked/saved?
* Can users "opt out" and select to remove all trace of the system, as is currently possible with the ignore list and removing view of signatures?
"Like" Button?
Jan 13, 2015, 10:12 am
#571
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The vote isn't even close anymore now that more FTers are aware of the discussion/vote.
Still being claimed that this is rigged/fixed/gamed? And/or that it's new people registering just to vote?? And that -only- those in favor of helpful voting feature are doing and/or organizing any such activity?
Or do those outlandish conspiracy theories seem a little silly now, in retrospect?
Still being claimed that this is rigged/fixed/gamed? And/or that it's new people registering just to vote?? And that -only- those in favor of helpful voting feature are doing and/or organizing any such activity?
Or do those outlandish conspiracy theories seem a little silly now, in retrospect?
Jan 13, 2015, 10:26 am
#572
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Ambassador: World of Hyatt
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You know Jon, you're posts are bordering insulting.
I never claimed people were registering just to vote, however, it is not beyond the scope of possibility that people PM'd friends on FT and/or used other social media to get people to vote a certain way.
So, no, it's not silly.
And it's also not that important. But my opinion hasn't changed. I believe the strongest supporters are trying to game the voting system.
I never claimed people were registering just to vote, however, it is not beyond the scope of possibility that people PM'd friends on FT and/or used other social media to get people to vote a certain way.
So, no, it's not silly.
And it's also not that important. But my opinion hasn't changed. I believe the strongest supporters are trying to game the voting system.
Jan 13, 2015, 10:33 am
#573
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The only thing that's insulting in this thread is claiming the poll was gamed. You're accusing TalkBoard members of engaging in dishonest behavior over a poll to implement a "Like" button. Try to keep some perspective.
Jan 13, 2015, 10:40 am
#574
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Yep, and I've rated other threads as well; but the "Rating" column remains blank for all threads.
Edited to add: I figured it out. After over 10 years on FT.
You have to click on the word "Rating" and then it supposedly sorts the posts by rating, either ascending or descending. Pretty thoroughly useless because it doesn't give you a star or number rating for any of the posts.
Sigh. This is the kind of 1993-style functionality that's all over this IBB software.
Edited to add: I figured it out. After over 10 years on FT.
You have to click on the word "Rating" and then it supposedly sorts the posts by rating, either ascending or descending. Pretty thoroughly useless because it doesn't give you a star or number rating for any of the posts.Sigh. This is the kind of 1993-style functionality that's all over this IBB software.
Last edited by DenverBrian; Jan 13, 2015 at 7:10 pm
Jan 13, 2015, 10:41 am
#575
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Ambassador: World of Hyatt
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I hate to break this to you, but I have never even mentioned the talk board, nor did the thought cross my mind.
Jan 13, 2015, 10:44 am
#576
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That's about the number of votes most candidates get for TalkBoard positions, so yes, I'd say for better or worse it's legitimate in FT world.
Jan 13, 2015, 10:58 am
#577
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)) most definitely made that **exact** claim early on in this thread.
Jan 13, 2015, 11:01 am
#578
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Is this a lost cause I wonder? Not the vote, but trying to get some consistency and non-hypocracy in this discussion?
Jan 13, 2015, 11:14 am
#579
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Probably would be best done only if there were a decision (from TB, or otherwise) that going forward with the button with SOME wording was likely to happen.
Jan 13, 2015, 11:18 am
#580
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So the thread has degenerated to discuss the poll. I guess no more valuable input will come and dearly hope nsx will soon state his case.
The poll has at this point collected 606 votes and thereby surpassed the TB election itself.
The poll has at this point collected 606 votes and thereby surpassed the TB election itself.
Jan 13, 2015, 11:18 am
#581
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It's a lot easier to vote in a poll (on any topic) than take time to participate (just like it's a lot easier to click on like than actually contribute to a discussion in a forum. 
).BTW - between the yes/no votes there are an additional 40 votes since TM went out this morning. I was on FT early posting the wiki so I saw the post count. I would certainly expect more folk to vote between now & Sat since so many get TM, but it will be interesting to see what the final tally is in terms of # of votes overall (and I mean that for perhaps as a method to highlight future polls, not just specific to this issue - TB is capable of multi-tasking).
However, that doesn't negate that during a 48-hour period during the Xmas holidays when most FTers were drinking eggnog there were a substantial # of votes that didn't occur before or after that time frame, so sure I think some lobbying took place. As I've noted in the thread a few times, I would have said (and did) the same re: of which direction the voting went. I also said (more than once) that lobbying is allowed for both sides as long as it doesn't violate TOS.
I believe that TB members will consider BOTH the poll as well as the discussions that have have taken place in this thread - as they should. As others have noted, it's easy to click a button on a poll, but it's the discussions that bring out the pros, cons, potential difficulties, work-arounds, items that haven't been thought of before that allow TB members to get a handle on something (re: of what the topic is).
Cheers.
Jan 13, 2015, 12:27 pm
#582
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I would say more folk are aware of the poll but not really the discussion. I seriously doubt most are taking the time to read the wiki (which was just created), much less read over 560 posts. It's a lot easier to vote in a poll (on any topic) than take time to participate (just like it's a lot easier to click on like than actually contribute to a discussion in a forum. ).
BTW - between the yes/no votes there are an additional 40 votes since TM went out this morning. I was on FT early posting the wiki so I saw the post count. I would certainly expect more folk to vote between now & Sat since so many get TM, but it will be interesting to see what the final tally is in terms of # of votes overall (and I mean that for perhaps as a method to highlight future polls, not just specific to this issue - TB is capable of multi-tasking).
However, that doesn't negate that during a 48-hour period during the Xmas holidays when most FTers were drinking eggnog there were a substantial # of votes that didn't occur before or after that time frame, so sure I think some lobbying took place. As I've noted in the thread a few times, I would have said (and did) the same re: of which direction the voting went. I also said (more than once) that lobbying is allowed for both sides as long as it doesn't violate TOS.
I believe that TB members will consider BOTH the poll as well as the discussions that have have taken place in this thread - as they should. As others have noted, it's easy to click a button on a poll, but it's the discussions that bring out the pros, cons, potential difficulties, work-arounds, items that haven't been thought of before that allow TB members to get a handle on something (re: of what the topic is).
It's a lot easier to vote in a poll (on any topic) than take time to participate (just like it's a lot easier to click on like than actually contribute to a discussion in a forum. ).BTW - between the yes/no votes there are an additional 40 votes since TM went out this morning. I was on FT early posting the wiki so I saw the post count. I would certainly expect more folk to vote between now & Sat since so many get TM, but it will be interesting to see what the final tally is in terms of # of votes overall (and I mean that for perhaps as a method to highlight future polls, not just specific to this issue - TB is capable of multi-tasking).
However, that doesn't negate that during a 48-hour period during the Xmas holidays when most FTers were drinking eggnog there were a substantial # of votes that didn't occur before or after that time frame, so sure I think some lobbying took place. As I've noted in the thread a few times, I would have said (and did) the same re: of which direction the voting went. I also said (more than once) that lobbying is allowed for both sides as long as it doesn't violate TOS.
I believe that TB members will consider BOTH the poll as well as the discussions that have have taken place in this thread - as they should. As others have noted, it's easy to click a button on a poll, but it's the discussions that bring out the pros, cons, potential difficulties, work-arounds, items that haven't been thought of before that allow TB members to get a handle on something (re: of what the topic is).
Although I will just restate; I don't understand the impulse that some here had to say so quickly "didn't win, must be dirty tricks."
Last edited by JonNYC; Jan 13, 2015 at 12:49 pm
Jan 13, 2015, 1:12 pm
#583
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Jan 13, 2015, 1:25 pm
#584
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Actually, if he is, it completely slipped my mind. NSX did not start the thread, and honestly, I don't believe I've read the whole thing. I didni't even realize he was for or against it.
I joined in when the poll was put up.
So, no, I did not intimate that the talk board, or even a single member of it, was trying to game the system.
Believe it or not, not everyone on FT is out to insult the talk board or push blame on them. Particularly me.
I joined in when the poll was put up.
So, no, I did not intimate that the talk board, or even a single member of it, was trying to game the system.
Believe it or not, not everyone on FT is out to insult the talk board or push blame on them. Particularly me.
Jan 13, 2015, 1:27 pm
#585
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My own thoughts:
In favour
Downsides
Other thoughts
In favour
- posts marked by the community as helpful could assist others with the task of identifying valuable content for inclusion in wikiposts and other resource threads
- potentially declutters busy threads - reduction of duplicate comments etc. This thread is not a bad case in point
Downsides
- the user feedback plug-in selected by Internet Brands for last month's short trial lacked elegance IMHO. However that's not say this was the only plug-in available. There are plenty of forums with user feedback enabled that avoid over dominant "like" tags
Other thoughts
- I'm not convinced by claims that the user feedback tool will be gamed. As far as I have read there's no benefit to be gained by using the tool insincerely.
- if adopted, my preference is for universal adoption. No forum opt outs. We trust members to post responsibly so the same goes for providing user feedback to posts
- im not convinced that the tool will create or encourage cliquey behaviour although it may highlight existing cliquey behaviour
- personally, I believe this function should be given a proper trial run. It works on other bulletin boards, we have Internet Brands support and experience to guide us through this process
Last edited by Prospero; Jan 13, 2015 at 1:34 pm