View Poll Results: Q: What is your view on FlyerTalk implementing a "Helpful" button feature?
Support
433
59.72%
Oppose
275
37.93%
No opinion
17
2.34%
Voters: 725. You may not vote on this poll
Jan 12, 2015, 9:07 pm
Last edit by: Prospero
Signed in members with 90 days / 90 posts can edit this Wikipost; wiki contents may be printed by using the 
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Some FTers are supportive of like/helpful button. Some are not. Some on both sides of the issue have questions, concerns and/or need more info. This wiki attempts to highlight them in bullet format/"cliff notes" version from the 566 posts in this thread. More detailed information regarding the pros/cons/questions/concerns/info can be garnered by reading the entire thread, where FTers on both sides of the like/helpful button have been eloquent/provided valuable input.
Pros:
* Makes Flyertalk more modern; more like Facebook, LinkedIn, and other progressive internet bulletin boards
* A like/helpful button would minimize unnecessary replies such as +1.
* Streamlines posts
* Positive feedback incentivizes quality content/FTers will post more
* Some people wont take time to write a thank you but will post a like
* Those with more likes/helpfuls are considered knowledgable
Cons:
* Makes it easier for airlines/companies to find mistake fares/glitches/underground tricks
* Makes Flyertalk more like Facebook/dumbs it down
* FT had rating system here years ago and it did not go well
* System can be gamed/cliques develop
* Clutters up posts/takes up valuable screen space
* Will not eliminate +1s/+1s also provide positive feedback
* Posts that have inaccurate info can also get likes/doesn't mean poster is knowledgable
* If FTers post info & it doesn't get likes/helpfuls, less incentive to post more
* Some who might have posted info in the past will now just post like, so less information provided to other FTers.
* Older posts will tend to have more likes/helpfuls on average than newer posts in the same thread, which can be misleading when the information is out-of-date. [added by MSPeconomist]
Questions, concerns about how it will work, and/or information based on brief internal trial already done
* If implemented, can FTers who prefer not to utilize the like/helpful button turn it off so that they don't see it?
* Is there a software way to separate likes of posts from posters? (Limited trial indicates no; don't know if software can be changed to do so)
* Can a post/day count be implemented before implementing for FTers, similar Omni/CC? (Yes)
* Can certain forums have it turned off such as Omni? (No, current software is it's either all forums or none)
* If a sitewide trial is created, what are the metrics for success or failure?
* What is the goal of this/how will the data be used?
* If customization of current software is required, will this take away from development on other projects such as a better mobile app?
* Will or can there be a dislike/unhelpful button?
* What happens if a post that is "liked" gets its content edited and ends up having a different meaning than it initially had at the time the post was "liked"?
* Can threads or individual posts deemed helpful be bookmarked/saved?
* Can users "opt out" and select to remove all trace of the system, as is currently possible with the ignore list and removing view of signatures?
(lower right wiki corner)Some FTers are supportive of like/helpful button. Some are not. Some on both sides of the issue have questions, concerns and/or need more info. This wiki attempts to highlight them in bullet format/"cliff notes" version from the 566 posts in this thread. More detailed information regarding the pros/cons/questions/concerns/info can be garnered by reading the entire thread, where FTers on both sides of the like/helpful button have been eloquent/provided valuable input.
Pros:
* Makes Flyertalk more modern; more like Facebook, LinkedIn, and other progressive internet bulletin boards
* A like/helpful button would minimize unnecessary replies such as +1.
* Streamlines posts
* Positive feedback incentivizes quality content/FTers will post more
* Some people wont take time to write a thank you but will post a like
* Those with more likes/helpfuls are considered knowledgable
Cons:
* Makes it easier for airlines/companies to find mistake fares/glitches/underground tricks
* Makes Flyertalk more like Facebook/dumbs it down
* FT had rating system here years ago and it did not go well
* System can be gamed/cliques develop
* Clutters up posts/takes up valuable screen space
* Will not eliminate +1s/+1s also provide positive feedback
* Posts that have inaccurate info can also get likes/doesn't mean poster is knowledgable
* If FTers post info & it doesn't get likes/helpfuls, less incentive to post more
* Some who might have posted info in the past will now just post like, so less information provided to other FTers.
* Older posts will tend to have more likes/helpfuls on average than newer posts in the same thread, which can be misleading when the information is out-of-date. [added by MSPeconomist]
Questions, concerns about how it will work, and/or information based on brief internal trial already done
* If implemented, can FTers who prefer not to utilize the like/helpful button turn it off so that they don't see it?
* Is there a software way to separate likes of posts from posters? (Limited trial indicates no; don't know if software can be changed to do so)
* Can a post/day count be implemented before implementing for FTers, similar Omni/CC? (Yes)
* Can certain forums have it turned off such as Omni? (No, current software is it's either all forums or none)
* If a sitewide trial is created, what are the metrics for success or failure?
* What is the goal of this/how will the data be used?
* If customization of current software is required, will this take away from development on other projects such as a better mobile app?
* Will or can there be a dislike/unhelpful button?
* What happens if a post that is "liked" gets its content edited and ends up having a different meaning than it initially had at the time the post was "liked"?
* Can threads or individual posts deemed helpful be bookmarked/saved?
* Can users "opt out" and select to remove all trace of the system, as is currently possible with the ignore list and removing view of signatures?
"Like" Button?
Jan 11, 2015 | 1:03 pm
#541
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In at least some of the threads where I've seen the IBTL posts, it's in large part joking and building community in those forums.
Jan 11, 2015 | 2:21 pm
#542
Moderator: Smoking Lounge; FlyerTalk Evangelist
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But we're not talking about a moderator editing a post here, we're talking (or at least the way I read it) about a post marked as helpful when it is not in fact that and what action a moderator is/is not to take-and THAT is a very big difference as I personally don't think moderators should be acting on what other members like/dislike/find helpful as then moderators are changing the opinion of another member. And with all of that, no one who has proposed or is actively supporting this issue has stated how that comes into play (or answered other questions for that matter but I digress)
Maybe I'm just in a confused state of mind, but can you clarify what you mean? I can't make out the point of your post.
It kind of sounds like you're saying that you do not believe moderators should be censors of inaccurate information. That's fine, and I don't see any proposal here to make moderators censors of inaccurate information.
Member#1 makes a post
Member#2 clicks and marks the post as helpful
Members 3, 4, & 5 report the post saying the post is not helpful
Moderators review the post and while not helpful, it is accurate post and within ToS (i.e. "sorry, and no matter what you may think, what the agent told you is correct"*)
Is a moderator supposed to "un-helpful" the post?
*sorry, and I know there's a better example, but that's the best I can come up with on a lazy Saturday night sleep deprived Sunday
Jan 11, 2015 | 4:52 pm
#543
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2004
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Let's try it this way....
Member#1 makes a post
Member#2 clicks and marks the post as helpful
Members 3, 4, & 5 report the post saying the post is not helpful
Moderators review the post and while not helpful, it is accurate post and within ToS (i.e. "sorry, and no matter what you may think, what the agent told you is correct"*)
Is a moderator supposed to "un-helpful" the post?
Member#1 makes a post
Member#2 clicks and marks the post as helpful
Members 3, 4, & 5 report the post saying the post is not helpful
Moderators review the post and while not helpful, it is accurate post and within ToS (i.e. "sorry, and no matter what you may think, what the agent told you is correct"*)
Is a moderator supposed to "un-helpful" the post?
I think this is a perfectly workable system:
Jan 11, 2015 | 5:11 pm
#544
Moderator: Smoking Lounge; FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: SFO
Programs: Lifetime (for now) Gold MM, HH Gold, Giving Tootsie Pops to UA employees, & a retired hockey goalie
Posts: 29,074
Let's try it this way....
Member#1 makes a post
Member#2 clicks and marks the post as helpful
Members 3, 4, & 5 report the post saying the post is not helpful
Moderators review the post and while not helpful, it is accurate post and within ToS (i.e. "sorry, and no matter what you may think, what the agent told you is correct"*)
Is a moderator supposed to "un-helpful" the post?
*sorry, and I know there's a better example, but that's the best I can come up with on a lazy Saturday night sleep deprived Sunday
Member#1 makes a post
Member#2 clicks and marks the post as helpful
Members 3, 4, & 5 report the post saying the post is not helpful
Moderators review the post and while not helpful, it is accurate post and within ToS (i.e. "sorry, and no matter what you may think, what the agent told you is correct"*)
Is a moderator supposed to "un-helpful" the post?
*sorry, and I know there's a better example, but that's the best I can come up with on a lazy Saturday night sleep deprived Sunday
I think this is a perfectly workable system:
Now as to facebook and likes and flyertalk and likes, yes it does work on facebook (even when it's raining
) but afaik, there isn't a way to game the system on facebook and as has been discussed numerous times in this thread, a) this is not facebook and b) this is flyertalk where gaming the system is a way of life
Jan 11, 2015 | 5:59 pm
#545
Moderator: Hilton Honors forums
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Marietta, Georgia, United States
Posts: 25,432
Jan 11, 2015 | 6:08 pm
#546
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 72,123
I don't think a "Like" or "helpful" button is necessary, or that either will provide any substantive and positive impact on FT. On boards where the function is provided, I ignore it. I don't need to know that 7 other people have found a post to useful to consider it useful. I reach that conclusion on my own.
That said, I wouldn't object to seeing a "helpful" button added. If it helps some people evaluate the utility of a given post, I see no problem in adding that functionality.
Adding a "like" button is a juvenile idea, IMHO. It has a sort of Sally Field aspect to it - "you like me, you really like me."
That said, I wouldn't object to seeing a "helpful" button added. If it helps some people evaluate the utility of a given post, I see no problem in adding that functionality.
Adding a "like" button is a juvenile idea, IMHO. It has a sort of Sally Field aspect to it - "you like me, you really like me."
Jan 11, 2015 | 6:17 pm
#547
Moderator: Smoking Lounge; FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: SFO
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Posts: 29,074
Jan 11, 2015 | 6:53 pm
#548
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) by nsx, who is the chief proponent of this idea and without whose blessing no proposal will likely move forward, works pretty much exactly liek Facebook's. So how can Facebook's implementation not be gamed but this one can? Why can't we create one that can't be gamed here? That seems to be exactly what is being proposed here.
Jan 11, 2015 | 7:22 pm
#549
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The system as I see it being proposed here (and before SkiAdcock tries to challenge me on this, I'll clarify ) by nsx, who is the chief proponent of this idea and without whose blessing no proposal will likely move forward, works pretty much exactly liek Facebook's. So how can Facebook's implementation not be gamed but this one can? Why can't we create one that can't be gamed here? That seems to be exactly what is being proposed here.
) by nsx, who is the chief proponent of this idea and without whose blessing no proposal will likely move forward, works pretty much exactly liek Facebook's. So how can Facebook's implementation not be gamed but this one can? Why can't we create one that can't be gamed here? That seems to be exactly what is being proposed here.
Jan 11, 2015 | 7:54 pm
#550
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Here, that seems LESS likely, unless I missed a separate part of the proposal that the "like" systems feed back to something. What's to game?
Here, there isn't a a limited scope of who can see/like/comment on posts in most forums.
I think people who assert that other people will be assessing the credibility of posts based on the number of "likes" (or "helpfuls") received are expecting far too much attention to such things.
If there's some broader count of "likes" received, that's something to be gamed -- I suppose it's kind of like all the OMNI/Games idiocy to boost post count -- but I still can't see why anyone should be expected to care about those numbers. I remember other people felt strongly about the whole "OMNI doesn't count" change, and I didn't "get" that either.
I haven't seen anyone suggesting we go to a full reputation system or highlighting posts based on "likes" -- both of which would be more amenable to manipulating the numbers, and I don't see any reason why we should do so and plenty of reasons not to, but I can't see how a a positive-only system, and especially one kept track of only on individual posts, adds any of those issues.
As I said up-thread, a simple system could be good for eliminating "thanks" and "me too" posts, and giving lower-engagement users a way of engaging with threads. Both seem like a plus, and the former in particular might improve the signal-to-noise ratio of some threads.
Jan 11, 2015 | 11:02 pm
#551
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Jan 12, 2015 | 5:34 am
#552
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I don't like this; it often ends up being a rep contest and that's never good. It also gets distracting and does it really add content to the thread? Will threads that people "like" look bigger on the page or they will just look the same? If they look the same then what's the point? Just more stuff to read.
However on many forums there is an option to pose a question (ie: there is a checkbox that asks if this is a question oppose to just a discussion); in this case, I think a "Answered" or "This is helpful" button is appropriate. Once a question is answered, the thread should be closed. There should be no reason to bump up a five year old thread. A lot of information become outdated in this day and age very quickly.
I oppose this, but if it's offered, I hope there is an option for members to turn off seeing this. This I think is the best of both worlds.
However on many forums there is an option to pose a question (ie: there is a checkbox that asks if this is a question oppose to just a discussion); in this case, I think a "Answered" or "This is helpful" button is appropriate. Once a question is answered, the thread should be closed. There should be no reason to bump up a five year old thread. A lot of information become outdated in this day and age very quickly.
I oppose this, but if it's offered, I hope there is an option for members to turn off seeing this. This I think is the best of both worlds.
Jan 12, 2015 | 6:24 am
#553
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Well, the other thing on FB is that (if I'm not mistaken) if you've "liked" something you tend to get their info/notices as well as have their name show up in things you've "liked", so they get exposure through several avenues from that "like".
With that said, I'm worried about gaming and ego-stroking as an unwanted side-effect here. At the very least, if this is implemented I would like to be able to totally disable the function (i.e. "See no likes, get no likes, offer no likes").
With that said, I'm worried about gaming and ego-stroking as an unwanted side-effect here. At the very least, if this is implemented I would like to be able to totally disable the function (i.e. "See no likes, get no likes, offer no likes").
Jan 12, 2015 | 10:52 am
#554
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While I support the proposal, I agree that a way to turn off viewing the likes would be a good thing if it's practical to add this to the software.
Jan 12, 2015 | 11:41 am
#555
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BTW - there will be a notice re: this issue in tomorrow's Talkmail & directing people to the poll/this thread. In chatting with canarsie, I agreed to do a 'wiki' for pros/cons, questions, etc, since most FTers aren't going to wade through such a long thread & the wiki can be the 'cliff notes' version. Heck, it's taking me a while to wade through this thread, the one in BA, and the 2 Omnis to pull out the pros, the cons, the questions (and/or answers if there are some), concerns, and condense them into something manageable and easy to read. Wiki has to be done before TM goes out in the morning. No pressure 
Cheers.
Cheers.