View Poll Results: Q: What is your view on FlyerTalk implementing a "Helpful" button feature?
Support
433
59.72%
Oppose
275
37.93%
No opinion
17
2.34%
Voters: 725. You may not vote on this poll
Jan 12, 2015, 9:07 pm
Last edit by: Prospero
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Some FTers are supportive of like/helpful button. Some are not. Some on both sides of the issue have questions, concerns and/or need more info. This wiki attempts to highlight them in bullet format/"cliff notes" version from the 566 posts in this thread. More detailed information regarding the pros/cons/questions/concerns/info can be garnered by reading the entire thread, where FTers on both sides of the like/helpful button have been eloquent/provided valuable input.
Pros:
* Makes Flyertalk more modern; more like Facebook, LinkedIn, and other progressive internet bulletin boards
* A like/helpful button would minimize unnecessary replies such as +1.
* Streamlines posts
* Positive feedback incentivizes quality content/FTers will post more
* Some people won’t take time to write a thank you but will post a like
* Those with more likes/helpfuls are considered knowledgable
Cons:
* Makes it easier for airlines/companies to find mistake fares/glitches/underground tricks
* Makes Flyertalk more like Facebook/dumbs it down
* FT had rating system here years ago and it did not go well
* System can be gamed/cliques develop
* Clutters up posts/takes up valuable screen space
* Will not eliminate +1s/+1s also provide positive feedback
* Posts that have inaccurate info can also get likes/doesn't mean poster is knowledgable
* If FTers post info & it doesn't get likes/helpfuls, less incentive to post more
* Some who might have posted info in the past will now just post like, so less information provided to other FTers.
* Older posts will tend to have more likes/helpfuls on average than newer posts in the same thread, which can be misleading when the information is out-of-date. [added by MSPeconomist]
Questions, concerns about how it will work, and/or information based on brief internal trial already done
* If implemented, can FTers who prefer not to utilize the like/helpful button turn it off so that they don't see it?
* Is there a software way to separate likes of posts from posters? (Limited trial indicates no; don't know if software can be changed to do so)
* Can a post/day count be implemented before implementing for FTers, similar Omni/CC? (Yes)
* Can certain forums have it turned off such as Omni? (No, current software is it's either all forums or none)
* If a sitewide trial is created, what are the metrics for success or failure?
* What is the goal of this/how will the data be used?
* If customization of current software is required, will this take away from development on other projects such as a better mobile app?
* Will or can there be a dislike/unhelpful button?
* What happens if a post that is "liked" gets its content edited and ends up having a different meaning than it initially had at the time the post was "liked"?
* Can threads or individual posts deemed helpful be bookmarked/saved?
* Can users "opt out" and select to remove all trace of the system, as is currently possible with the ignore list and removing view of signatures?
(lower right wiki corner)Some FTers are supportive of like/helpful button. Some are not. Some on both sides of the issue have questions, concerns and/or need more info. This wiki attempts to highlight them in bullet format/"cliff notes" version from the 566 posts in this thread. More detailed information regarding the pros/cons/questions/concerns/info can be garnered by reading the entire thread, where FTers on both sides of the like/helpful button have been eloquent/provided valuable input.
Pros:
* Makes Flyertalk more modern; more like Facebook, LinkedIn, and other progressive internet bulletin boards
* A like/helpful button would minimize unnecessary replies such as +1.
* Streamlines posts
* Positive feedback incentivizes quality content/FTers will post more
* Some people won’t take time to write a thank you but will post a like
* Those with more likes/helpfuls are considered knowledgable
Cons:
* Makes it easier for airlines/companies to find mistake fares/glitches/underground tricks
* Makes Flyertalk more like Facebook/dumbs it down
* FT had rating system here years ago and it did not go well
* System can be gamed/cliques develop
* Clutters up posts/takes up valuable screen space
* Will not eliminate +1s/+1s also provide positive feedback
* Posts that have inaccurate info can also get likes/doesn't mean poster is knowledgable
* If FTers post info & it doesn't get likes/helpfuls, less incentive to post more
* Some who might have posted info in the past will now just post like, so less information provided to other FTers.
* Older posts will tend to have more likes/helpfuls on average than newer posts in the same thread, which can be misleading when the information is out-of-date. [added by MSPeconomist]
Questions, concerns about how it will work, and/or information based on brief internal trial already done
* If implemented, can FTers who prefer not to utilize the like/helpful button turn it off so that they don't see it?
* Is there a software way to separate likes of posts from posters? (Limited trial indicates no; don't know if software can be changed to do so)
* Can a post/day count be implemented before implementing for FTers, similar Omni/CC? (Yes)
* Can certain forums have it turned off such as Omni? (No, current software is it's either all forums or none)
* If a sitewide trial is created, what are the metrics for success or failure?
* What is the goal of this/how will the data be used?
* If customization of current software is required, will this take away from development on other projects such as a better mobile app?
* Will or can there be a dislike/unhelpful button?
* What happens if a post that is "liked" gets its content edited and ends up having a different meaning than it initially had at the time the post was "liked"?
* Can threads or individual posts deemed helpful be bookmarked/saved?
* Can users "opt out" and select to remove all trace of the system, as is currently possible with the ignore list and removing view of signatures?
"Like" Button?
Jan 14, 2015, 9:34 pm
#616
Moderator: Southwest Airlines, Capital One
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: California
Programs: WN Companion Pass, A-list preferred, Hyatt Globalist; United Club Lietime (sic) Member
Posts: 21,620
I wouldn't say that TB is "moving" on this. As the latest instigator, I am studying it and thinking about whether to propose some minimal trial and if so what. This thread has revealed quite a number of important concerns I want to address before proceeding.
Jan 14, 2015, 9:43 pm
#617
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: ICT
Programs: AA ExP
Posts: 1,860
Jan 14, 2015, 9:47 pm
#618
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
Programs: A3*Gold, SPG Plat, HyattDiamond, MarriottPP, LHW exAccess, ICI, Raffles Amb, NW PE MM, TWA Gold MM
Posts: 100,399
Jan 14, 2015, 9:48 pm
#619
Moderator: Hilton Honors forums
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Marietta, Georgia, United States
Posts: 24,997
For this reason, I would prefer testing out a “like” button on a trial basis — by all members of FlyerTalk who wish to participate. I believe the experience will reveal the answers to many questions; as well as either confirm or change the opinions of how FlyerTalk members feel about this functionality...
...not to mention that I typically prefer to reach conclusions based on actual data rather than supposition and speculation.
Jan 14, 2015, 10:55 pm
#620
Moderator: Southwest Airlines, Capital One
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: California
Programs: WN Companion Pass, A-list preferred, Hyatt Globalist; United Club Lietime (sic) Member
Posts: 21,620
Jan 15, 2015, 12:14 am
#621
Moderator, Finnair
Join Date: May 2011
Location: MMX (CPH)
Programs: Eurobonus Diamond, QR Gold, AY+ Platinum, A3*G, Nordic Choice Lifetime Platinum, SJ Prio Black
Posts: 14,171
Take for example the macrumors site. It has similiariteis with FT as it is a community of engaged people discussing their hobby. However, it is quite different fron FT as it is extremely uniform. It has become this way because when someone posts something outside the common view, it is downvoted and anone bashing the opponent is upvoted.
Now add that like/helpful system to FT and I can easily see the same hapening here on some of the forums where people are very pro their airline and takes all criticism as an attack.
Now, how can FT survive as a discussion site if people start to vote for "the right" posts/posters?
Jan 15, 2015, 12:52 am
#622
Moderator: Southwest Airlines, Capital One
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: California
Programs: WN Companion Pass, A-list preferred, Hyatt Globalist; United Club Lietime (sic) Member
Posts: 21,620
Now add that like/helpful system to FT and I can easily see the same hapening here on some of the forums where people are very pro their airline and takes all criticism as an attack.
Now, how can FT survive as a discussion site if people start to vote for "the right" posts/posters?
Now, how can FT survive as a discussion site if people start to vote for "the right" posts/posters?
Jan 15, 2015, 1:21 am
#623
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 187
A like/don't like button doesn't reflect the true feeling of the flyertalk community only those reading the post/thread. Low traffic posts/threads/forums can easily be manipulated by a few.
If something is liked or not liked what does it signifying?
If something is liked or not liked what does it signifying?
Jan 15, 2015, 1:52 am
#624
Moderator, Finnair
Join Date: May 2011
Location: MMX (CPH)
Programs: Eurobonus Diamond, QR Gold, AY+ Platinum, A3*G, Nordic Choice Lifetime Platinum, SJ Prio Black
Posts: 14,171
Or when the "drive-by-rant-by-first-time-poster" gets what he "deserves", perhaps all the regulars of that forum are happy to show their liking?
If likes can strengthen a poster, I cannot see why it couldn't strengthen posts with unfriendly content.
Human element isn't that hard to predict, but I agree one should give those humans the benfit of a doubt
Originally Posted by amunter
My comment about self-policing is that anybody who has done some reading on FT for some time starts to build a list (or a fuzzy sketch or a hazy image or however your brain works) in their head of who is reliable/helpful/thoughtful/funny/"a good poster" - however you define that - and who is not.
There are some very opinionated FT'ers with high post counts that has some reputation (good or bad). But by reading them several times, I have been able to form a picture in my head of them and their personalities and can in the light of that enjoy their posts. If I never formed my image of them and instead relied on post count and/or how liked they are, I probably would have been driven crazy from their posts.
Jan 15, 2015, 3:43 am
#625
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Either at the shooting range or anywhere good beer can be found...
Posts: 51,042
When a newbie for the millionth time asks a mundane question, it isn't that far fetched that a snarky "use the search" reply will get numerous likes/helfuls, is it?
Or when the "drive-by-rant-by-first-time-poster" gets what he "deserves", perhaps all the regulars of that forum are happy to show their liking?
If likes can strengthen a poster, I cannot see why it couldn't strengthen posts with unfriendly content.
Or when the "drive-by-rant-by-first-time-poster" gets what he "deserves", perhaps all the regulars of that forum are happy to show their liking?
If likes can strengthen a poster, I cannot see why it couldn't strengthen posts with unfriendly content.
Jan 15, 2015, 3:54 am
#626
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 57,565
Agree. When this new function finally appears, I'll ignore it as both a reader and poster, and when I want to compliment someone, I'll do it the old fashioned way - posting a public thanks or the same thing via pm.
Jan 15, 2015, 5:40 am
#627
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Home
Programs: AA, Delta, UA & thanks to FTers for my PC Gold!
Posts: 7,676
What is FT majority?
My guess is we may see no more than 1000 votes when the poll closes. Should we conclude 1000 people speaks for the majority then? I don't think so.
Nevertheless, a FT poll is not the same as TB elections. We have a clear guidelines for TB in terms of elections, motions and decisions. Not so much with any FT poll. I would even say any FT poll is only fuzzy enough to get some rough ideas among the "vocal or expressive" FTers. In the case of Like/Helpful button, I believe points taken is much more valuable than heads counted. I hope our TBers and CD are among the wise to make the right decisions that actually better and/or benefit FT.
Jan 15, 2015, 9:56 am
#628
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: in the vicinity of SFO
Programs: AA 2MM (LT-PLT, PPro for this year)
Posts: 19,781
Which leads to the question on the initial point, what is there to manipulate? There's no proposal on the time to give anything away for extra likes, or to show "liked" posts first, etc. Even if there's a little silly bit of egoboo like showing someone's "like" count on their profile page or even in the left column, so what?
--
Let me add the following as an example of a reply where I'd have liked the option of a "Like" button, but where a reply of "Got it, thanks!" would have been noise rather than useful:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/24172984-post8.html
Last edited by nkedel; Jan 15, 2015 at 12:49 pm
Jan 15, 2015, 1:02 pm
#629
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: LHR
Programs: DL DM 2MM, BA Bronze, Various Hotels
Posts: 10,187
I remain not convinced that a “like” button will help improve FlyerTalk for a majority of its members.
For this reason, I would prefer testing out a “like” button on a trial basis — by all members of FlyerTalk who wish to participate. I believe the experience will reveal the answers to many questions; as well as either confirm or change the opinions of how FlyerTalk members feel about this functionality...
...not to mention that I typically prefer to reach conclusions based on actual data rather than supposition and speculation.
For this reason, I would prefer testing out a “like” button on a trial basis — by all members of FlyerTalk who wish to participate. I believe the experience will reveal the answers to many questions; as well as either confirm or change the opinions of how FlyerTalk members feel about this functionality...
...not to mention that I typically prefer to reach conclusions based on actual data rather than supposition and speculation.
I think a trial to give folks what it looks like, how FTers use it, etc. would be useful.
Jan 15, 2015, 1:14 pm
#630
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Charleston, SC, USA
Programs: Avis Pref+, Hyatt Explorist, Marriott Life Gold, Honors Silver, IHG Plat via MC.
Posts: 6,786
IMHO, some posts have merit. Others do not. What I care about is whether *I* think a post has merit, not whether other posters think so or not.
So I think a 'like' feature is worthless.
But others feel differently and if someone wants to make a compelling case for them to convinces me that functionality would have benefit for some, I would be up for asking IB to look into it.
So I think a 'like' feature is worthless.
But others feel differently and if someone wants to make a compelling case for them to convinces me that functionality would have benefit for some, I would be up for asking IB to look into it.