View Poll Results: Q: What is your view on FlyerTalk implementing a "Helpful" button feature?
Support
433
59.72%
Oppose
275
37.93%
No opinion
17
2.34%
Voters: 725. You may not vote on this poll
Jan 12, 2015, 9:07 pm
Last edit by: Prospero
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Some FTers are supportive of like/helpful button. Some are not. Some on both sides of the issue have questions, concerns and/or need more info. This wiki attempts to highlight them in bullet format/"cliff notes" version from the 566 posts in this thread. More detailed information regarding the pros/cons/questions/concerns/info can be garnered by reading the entire thread, where FTers on both sides of the like/helpful button have been eloquent/provided valuable input.
Pros:
* Makes Flyertalk more modern; more like Facebook, LinkedIn, and other progressive internet bulletin boards
* A like/helpful button would minimize unnecessary replies such as +1.
* Streamlines posts
* Positive feedback incentivizes quality content/FTers will post more
* Some people wont take time to write a thank you but will post a like
* Those with more likes/helpfuls are considered knowledgable
Cons:
* Makes it easier for airlines/companies to find mistake fares/glitches/underground tricks
* Makes Flyertalk more like Facebook/dumbs it down
* FT had rating system here years ago and it did not go well
* System can be gamed/cliques develop
* Clutters up posts/takes up valuable screen space
* Will not eliminate +1s/+1s also provide positive feedback
* Posts that have inaccurate info can also get likes/doesn't mean poster is knowledgable
* If FTers post info & it doesn't get likes/helpfuls, less incentive to post more
* Some who might have posted info in the past will now just post like, so less information provided to other FTers.
* Older posts will tend to have more likes/helpfuls on average than newer posts in the same thread, which can be misleading when the information is out-of-date. [added by MSPeconomist]
Questions, concerns about how it will work, and/or information based on brief internal trial already done
* If implemented, can FTers who prefer not to utilize the like/helpful button turn it off so that they don't see it?
* Is there a software way to separate likes of posts from posters? (Limited trial indicates no; don't know if software can be changed to do so)
* Can a post/day count be implemented before implementing for FTers, similar Omni/CC? (Yes)
* Can certain forums have it turned off such as Omni? (No, current software is it's either all forums or none)
* If a sitewide trial is created, what are the metrics for success or failure?
* What is the goal of this/how will the data be used?
* If customization of current software is required, will this take away from development on other projects such as a better mobile app?
* Will or can there be a dislike/unhelpful button?
* What happens if a post that is "liked" gets its content edited and ends up having a different meaning than it initially had at the time the post was "liked"?
* Can threads or individual posts deemed helpful be bookmarked/saved?
* Can users "opt out" and select to remove all trace of the system, as is currently possible with the ignore list and removing view of signatures?
(lower right wiki corner)Some FTers are supportive of like/helpful button. Some are not. Some on both sides of the issue have questions, concerns and/or need more info. This wiki attempts to highlight them in bullet format/"cliff notes" version from the 566 posts in this thread. More detailed information regarding the pros/cons/questions/concerns/info can be garnered by reading the entire thread, where FTers on both sides of the like/helpful button have been eloquent/provided valuable input.
Pros:
* Makes Flyertalk more modern; more like Facebook, LinkedIn, and other progressive internet bulletin boards
* A like/helpful button would minimize unnecessary replies such as +1.
* Streamlines posts
* Positive feedback incentivizes quality content/FTers will post more
* Some people wont take time to write a thank you but will post a like
* Those with more likes/helpfuls are considered knowledgable
Cons:
* Makes it easier for airlines/companies to find mistake fares/glitches/underground tricks
* Makes Flyertalk more like Facebook/dumbs it down
* FT had rating system here years ago and it did not go well
* System can be gamed/cliques develop
* Clutters up posts/takes up valuable screen space
* Will not eliminate +1s/+1s also provide positive feedback
* Posts that have inaccurate info can also get likes/doesn't mean poster is knowledgable
* If FTers post info & it doesn't get likes/helpfuls, less incentive to post more
* Some who might have posted info in the past will now just post like, so less information provided to other FTers.
* Older posts will tend to have more likes/helpfuls on average than newer posts in the same thread, which can be misleading when the information is out-of-date. [added by MSPeconomist]
Questions, concerns about how it will work, and/or information based on brief internal trial already done
* If implemented, can FTers who prefer not to utilize the like/helpful button turn it off so that they don't see it?
* Is there a software way to separate likes of posts from posters? (Limited trial indicates no; don't know if software can be changed to do so)
* Can a post/day count be implemented before implementing for FTers, similar Omni/CC? (Yes)
* Can certain forums have it turned off such as Omni? (No, current software is it's either all forums or none)
* If a sitewide trial is created, what are the metrics for success or failure?
* What is the goal of this/how will the data be used?
* If customization of current software is required, will this take away from development on other projects such as a better mobile app?
* Will or can there be a dislike/unhelpful button?
* What happens if a post that is "liked" gets its content edited and ends up having a different meaning than it initially had at the time the post was "liked"?
* Can threads or individual posts deemed helpful be bookmarked/saved?
* Can users "opt out" and select to remove all trace of the system, as is currently possible with the ignore list and removing view of signatures?
"Like" Button?
Jan 8, 2015 | 7:25 pm
#496
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The people have spoken!
Jan 9, 2015 | 7:08 am
#497
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Ambassador: World of Hyatt
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I don't think they have. IMHO, given the way the poll was going and the opinions expressed in the thread, the poll was gamed, just like reputation was gamed, and likes will be gamed.
Given something to exploit, FTers have proven themselves to always be looking for a way to get around something.
Given something to exploit, FTers have proven themselves to always be looking for a way to get around something.
Jan 9, 2015 | 8:25 am
#498
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
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Posts: 52,783
I don't think they have. IMHO, given the way the poll was going and the opinions expressed in the thread, the poll was gamed, just like reputation was gamed, and likes will be gamed.
Given something to exploit, FTers have proven themselves to always be looking for a way to get around something.
Given something to exploit, FTers have proven themselves to always be looking for a way to get around something.
Jan 9, 2015 | 8:54 am
#499
Moderator: Smoking Lounge; FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: SFO
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I don't think they have. IMHO, given the way the poll was going and the opinions expressed in the thread, the poll was gamed, just like reputation was gamed, and likes will be gamed.
Given something to exploit, FTers have proven themselves to always be looking for a way to get around something.
Given something to exploit, FTers have proven themselves to always be looking for a way to get around something.
Jan 9, 2015 | 11:15 am
#500
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I'm assuming you mean with the comments in this thread & not just the poll (which yes, did jump significantly in a 48-hour period of time & then not much after that). TB members will do their due diligence & consider the poll numbers but also the issues & questions raised by FTers and other TB members.
Quite frankly I think the idea of pursuing another trial without the issues/questions addressed does a disservice rather than a service to FT.
Cheers.
Quite frankly I think the idea of pursuing another trial without the issues/questions addressed does a disservice rather than a service to FT.
Cheers.
Jan 9, 2015 | 11:48 am
#501
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I'm assuming you mean with the comments in this thread & not just the poll (which yes, did jump significantly in a 48-hour period of time & then not much after that). TB members will do their due diligence & consider the poll numbers but also the issues & questions raised by FTers and other TB members.
Quite frankly I think the idea of pursuing another trial without the issues/questions addressed does a disservice rather than a service to FT.
Cheers.
Quite frankly I think the idea of pursuing another trial without the issues/questions addressed does a disservice rather than a service to FT.
Cheers.
Jan 9, 2015 | 1:20 pm
#502
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Enough with the "The Poll Was Gamed" nonsense. I've seen some wild conjecture in my almost 13 years on Flyertalk, but the idea that TalkBoard members, or other Flyertalkers, would game a poll over a like button is without a doubt, the most insane theory I've ever heard.
Jan 9, 2015 | 1:55 pm
#503
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I've seen it happen/experienced it over the years, both as a FTer and as a TB member. Re: of which side of an issue one is on, as long as lobbying doesn't violate TOS, it's allowed (TB general elections by candidates being the sole exception).
Re: the like poll #s itself, there was a sudden influx of votes in a 48 hour period. Prior & post that the voting has been pretty stable/not that many votes. So it's not out of the realm of possibility that there were some PMs being sent encouraging folk to vote yes. That there hasn't been many since then might mean some folk have run out of folk that they feel they can lobby/gone through their FT rolodex
And hey, the folk who are against this also have the option of contacting their FT rolodex to PM them & ask them to consider voting & to vote no 
.Knowing TB members I know they'll consider both the poll & the comments when deciding whether to move forward with this & not just an either/or.
Cheers.
Jan 9, 2015 | 3:18 pm
#504
Moderator: The British Airways Club, Iberia Club, Airport Lounges and Eco-conscious Travel
Join Date: Jan 2003
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Posts: 22,602
Just a heads-up. A site wide announcement will appear again tomorrow, and will stay in place throughout the final week of the polling period.
Jan 9, 2015 | 3:23 pm
#505
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Glad to hear it!
Last edited by JonNYC; Jan 9, 2015 at 3:42 pm
Jan 9, 2015 | 3:43 pm
#506
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Ambassador: World of Hyatt
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Most of the evidence is in the archives or gone, but there was some serious gaming going on.
It's not wild conjecture. It came from RPs own mouth when he discovered it. (IIRC). He was NOT a happy camper.
Jan 9, 2015 | 3:51 pm
#507
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confused
The post you're replying to says:
...game a poll over a like button
Jan 9, 2015 | 3:51 pm
#508
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 4,964
.....
Last edited by angatol; Feb 28, 2015 at 10:02 pm
Jan 9, 2015 | 4:27 pm
#509
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Jan 9, 2015 | 4:58 pm
#510
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You sure you're not confusing the old "reputation" thing/scandal of sorts-- where there most definitely were shenanigans going on and then Randy turned on the switch revealing to all who had "dinged" them, etc with this current poll???
The post you're replying to says:
As in, the current discussion/poll.
The post you're replying to says:
As in, the current discussion/poll.
--
Also, I think the deliberate non-inclusion of a "dislike" or "unhelpful" button will limit the harmful effects of any gaming that may go on. I don't understand the (fortunately few) people who have advocated for the inclusion of such in this thread.
I really think people should quit bringing up the "horrendous scandal" that happened back in RP's days with the reputation feature. It's comparing apples-to-oranges. The old one had a vote-up/vote-down feature and applied to the member himself/herself across FT. The new system as it's being proposed only has the ability to leave positive feedback on a specific post. If post ratings are applied to posts only and not to members, and if the worst thing that can happen is that someone's post does not get voted up, then I really fail to see how such scandalous behavior can possibly ensue.