View Poll Results: Q: What is your view on FlyerTalk implementing a "Helpful" button feature?
Support
433
59.72%
Oppose
275
37.93%
No opinion
17
2.34%
Voters: 725. You may not vote on this poll
Jan 12, 2015, 9:07 pm
Last edit by: Prospero
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Some FTers are supportive of like/helpful button. Some are not. Some on both sides of the issue have questions, concerns and/or need more info. This wiki attempts to highlight them in bullet format/"cliff notes" version from the 566 posts in this thread. More detailed information regarding the pros/cons/questions/concerns/info can be garnered by reading the entire thread, where FTers on both sides of the like/helpful button have been eloquent/provided valuable input.
Pros:
* Makes Flyertalk more modern; more like Facebook, LinkedIn, and other progressive internet bulletin boards
* A like/helpful button would minimize unnecessary replies such as +1.
* Streamlines posts
* Positive feedback incentivizes quality content/FTers will post more
* Some people wont take time to write a thank you but will post a like
* Those with more likes/helpfuls are considered knowledgable
Cons:
* Makes it easier for airlines/companies to find mistake fares/glitches/underground tricks
* Makes Flyertalk more like Facebook/dumbs it down
* FT had rating system here years ago and it did not go well
* System can be gamed/cliques develop
* Clutters up posts/takes up valuable screen space
* Will not eliminate +1s/+1s also provide positive feedback
* Posts that have inaccurate info can also get likes/doesn't mean poster is knowledgable
* If FTers post info & it doesn't get likes/helpfuls, less incentive to post more
* Some who might have posted info in the past will now just post like, so less information provided to other FTers.
* Older posts will tend to have more likes/helpfuls on average than newer posts in the same thread, which can be misleading when the information is out-of-date. [added by MSPeconomist]
Questions, concerns about how it will work, and/or information based on brief internal trial already done
* If implemented, can FTers who prefer not to utilize the like/helpful button turn it off so that they don't see it?
* Is there a software way to separate likes of posts from posters? (Limited trial indicates no; don't know if software can be changed to do so)
* Can a post/day count be implemented before implementing for FTers, similar Omni/CC? (Yes)
* Can certain forums have it turned off such as Omni? (No, current software is it's either all forums or none)
* If a sitewide trial is created, what are the metrics for success or failure?
* What is the goal of this/how will the data be used?
* If customization of current software is required, will this take away from development on other projects such as a better mobile app?
* Will or can there be a dislike/unhelpful button?
* What happens if a post that is "liked" gets its content edited and ends up having a different meaning than it initially had at the time the post was "liked"?
* Can threads or individual posts deemed helpful be bookmarked/saved?
* Can users "opt out" and select to remove all trace of the system, as is currently possible with the ignore list and removing view of signatures?
(lower right wiki corner)Some FTers are supportive of like/helpful button. Some are not. Some on both sides of the issue have questions, concerns and/or need more info. This wiki attempts to highlight them in bullet format/"cliff notes" version from the 566 posts in this thread. More detailed information regarding the pros/cons/questions/concerns/info can be garnered by reading the entire thread, where FTers on both sides of the like/helpful button have been eloquent/provided valuable input.
Pros:
* Makes Flyertalk more modern; more like Facebook, LinkedIn, and other progressive internet bulletin boards
* A like/helpful button would minimize unnecessary replies such as +1.
* Streamlines posts
* Positive feedback incentivizes quality content/FTers will post more
* Some people wont take time to write a thank you but will post a like
* Those with more likes/helpfuls are considered knowledgable
Cons:
* Makes it easier for airlines/companies to find mistake fares/glitches/underground tricks
* Makes Flyertalk more like Facebook/dumbs it down
* FT had rating system here years ago and it did not go well
* System can be gamed/cliques develop
* Clutters up posts/takes up valuable screen space
* Will not eliminate +1s/+1s also provide positive feedback
* Posts that have inaccurate info can also get likes/doesn't mean poster is knowledgable
* If FTers post info & it doesn't get likes/helpfuls, less incentive to post more
* Some who might have posted info in the past will now just post like, so less information provided to other FTers.
* Older posts will tend to have more likes/helpfuls on average than newer posts in the same thread, which can be misleading when the information is out-of-date. [added by MSPeconomist]
Questions, concerns about how it will work, and/or information based on brief internal trial already done
* If implemented, can FTers who prefer not to utilize the like/helpful button turn it off so that they don't see it?
* Is there a software way to separate likes of posts from posters? (Limited trial indicates no; don't know if software can be changed to do so)
* Can a post/day count be implemented before implementing for FTers, similar Omni/CC? (Yes)
* Can certain forums have it turned off such as Omni? (No, current software is it's either all forums or none)
* If a sitewide trial is created, what are the metrics for success or failure?
* What is the goal of this/how will the data be used?
* If customization of current software is required, will this take away from development on other projects such as a better mobile app?
* Will or can there be a dislike/unhelpful button?
* What happens if a post that is "liked" gets its content edited and ends up having a different meaning than it initially had at the time the post was "liked"?
* Can threads or individual posts deemed helpful be bookmarked/saved?
* Can users "opt out" and select to remove all trace of the system, as is currently possible with the ignore list and removing view of signatures?
"Like" Button?
Jan 12, 2015 | 11:52 am
#556
Moderator: Hilton Honors forums
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Marietta, Georgia, United States
Posts: 25,432
Plagiarist.
In all seriousness: thank you in advance for all of the hard work you are going to devote to the anticipated WikiPost, SkiAdcock, as I believe that it will help many FlyerTalk members understand what is involved as to whether or not FlyerTalk should have a “like” or “helpful” button functionality added to it.
In all seriousness: thank you in advance for all of the hard work you are going to devote to the anticipated WikiPost, SkiAdcock, as I believe that it will help many FlyerTalk members understand what is involved as to whether or not FlyerTalk should have a “like” or “helpful” button functionality added to it.
Jan 12, 2015 | 12:25 pm
#557
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Pittsburgh
Programs: MR LT Titanium, AA LT PLT, UA SLV, Avis PreferredPlus, HH Gold, Hertz PC, National Executive, etc.
Posts: 31,670
Kid Needs 500,000 Retweets To Take His Friends Smoking Hot Mom To Prom
Jan 12, 2015 | 8:44 pm
#558
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Aug 2002
Programs: UALifetimePremierGold, Marriott LifetimeTitanium
Posts: 74,088
Kill me now. I just spent hours sorting through and condensing the pros/cons and questions. (And answers if they were available) and concerns. And just as I got ready to post computer had glitch lost everything. Now trying to recreate everything and post before talkmail goes out. Cheers.
Jan 12, 2015 | 9:22 pm
#559
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Denver, CO, USA
Programs: Sometimes known as [ARG:6 UNDEFINED]
Posts: 28,758
I'm seeing a "Rate Thread" that I don't think was there before - Excellent, Good, Average, Bad, Terrible - and I've rated a few threads but don't see any results at this point. (Perhaps a minimum number of ratings are needed?)
Is this another experiment akin to the like/helpful idea? If so, this may alleviate some of the wailing about rating individual posts, since you'd be rating the entire thread, not a particular post.
Is this another experiment akin to the like/helpful idea? If so, this may alleviate some of the wailing about rating individual posts, since you'd be rating the entire thread, not a particular post.
Jan 12, 2015 | 9:27 pm
#560
Moderator: Hilton Honors forums
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Marietta, Georgia, United States
Posts: 25,432
I'm seeing a "Rate Thread" that I don't think was there before - Excellent, Good, Average, Bad, Terrible - and I've rated a few threads but don't see any results at this point. (Perhaps a minimum number of ratings are needed?)
Is this another experiment akin to the like/helpful idea? If so, this may alleviate some of the wailing about rating individual posts, since you'd be rating the entire thread, not a particular post.
Is this another experiment akin to the like/helpful idea? If so, this may alleviate some of the wailing about rating individual posts, since you'd be rating the entire thread, not a particular post.
Jan 12, 2015 | 11:06 pm
#561
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: SEA
Programs: AS MVPG, MGM Rewards Gold, Hhonors ???, National Executive
Posts: 2,708
If people took the time to vote, the mods should respect that & leave the votes as they are. Sure, the info might be outdated. If so, that needs to be explained elsewhere in a thread/wiki.
If you want to clean up a thread and nuke all of the +1 votes, I'd be all for that. Don't see how that translates into LIKES for a thread though. But maybe you're doing people a favor. If they can't figure out that LIKE is a replacement for +1, then their vote shouldn't count
I support the idea of a Helpful post button because it adds a qualitative dimension to the post counts, titles (Evangelist, Legend), and program affiliations which members may use to assess a post's credibility. Positive reinforcement encourages more of the same, and this tool should increase engagement of members who are high quality, but infrequent, posters.
The button itself doesn't provide what you mention. That comes from building some additional infrastructure to see who has the most valuable posts, how many people have voted your posts as helpful, or maybe even who has voted on certain posts. In other words, it turns it into a contest. It's still very unclear how the metrics will be used and who will be able to see them. No solid details on how this is intended to be used, so impossible to predict the ways that people will try to game the system. I agree that there CAN be some valuable data obtained from these metrics, it's all a matter of implementation to see whether or not they could really be useful. As far as positive reinforcement, we get too much of that already. A tough love approach is needed, which includes a DISLIKE button.
Not even remotely the same.
There are stupid people here. They post stupid things. There is no point in asking them to correct it, or getting into a debate about the info, because they're often stupid AND stubborn.
I don't like this; it often ends up being a rep contest and that's never good. It also gets distracting and does it really add content to the thread? Will threads that people "like" look bigger on the page or they will just look the same? If they look the same then what's the point? Just more stuff to read.
However on many forums there is an option to pose a question (ie: there is a checkbox that asks if this is a question oppose to just a discussion) in this case, I think a "Answered" or "This is helpful" button is appropriate.
However on many forums there is an option to pose a question (ie: there is a checkbox that asks if this is a question oppose to just a discussion) in this case, I think a "Answered" or "This is helpful" button is appropriate.
---
Summary: I'm against the LIKE button. But if you add it, you have to balance it with a DISLIKE.
Jan 13, 2015 | 12:45 am
#562
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: in the vicinity of SFO
Programs: AA 2MM (LT-PLT, PPro for this year)
Posts: 19,784
Jan 13, 2015 | 5:12 am
#564
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Sunny SYDNEY!
Programs: UA Million Miler. (1.9M) Virgin Platinum. HH Diamond + SPG Gold
Posts: 32,351
So another superb reason this ditzy idea should be drowned. FT (until now) has always been about points and flying - not Facebook.
Jan 13, 2015 | 6:42 am
#565
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Aug 2002
Programs: UALifetimePremierGold, Marriott LifetimeTitanium
Posts: 74,088
The wiki:
"Some FTers are supportive of like/helpful button. Some are not. Some on both sides of the issue have questions, concerns and/or need more info. This wiki attempts to highlight them in bullet format/"cliff notes" version from the 566 posts made in this thread. More detailed information regarding the pros/cons/questions/concerns/info can be garnered by reading the entire thread, where FTers on both sides of the like/helpful button have been eloquent/provided valuable input.
Pros:
* Make Flyertalk more modern/more like Facebook
* A like/helpful button would minimize unnecessary replies such as +1.
* Streamlines posts
* Positive feedback incentivizes quality content/FTers will post more
* Some people won’t take time to write a thank you but will post a like
* Those with more likes/helpfuls are considered knowledgable
Cons:
* Makes Flyertalk more like Facebook/dumbs it down
* FT had rating system here years ago and it did not go well
* System can be gamed/cliques develop
* Clutters up posts/takes up valuable screen space
* Will not eliminate +1s/+1s also provide positive feedback
* Posts that have inaccurate info can also get likes/doesn't mean poster is knowledgable
* If FTers post info & it doesn't get likes/helpfuls, less incentive to post more
* Some who might have posted info in the past will now just post like, so less information provided to other FTers.
Questions, concerns about how it will work, and/or information based on brief internal trial already done
* If implemented, can FTers who prefer not to utilize the like/helpful button turn it off so that they don't see it?
* Is there a software way to separate likes of posts from posters? (Limited trial indicates no; don't know if software can be changed to do so)
* Can a post/day count be implemented before implementing for FTers, similar Omni/CC? (Yes)
* Can certain forums have it turned off such as Omni? (No, current software is it's either all forums or none)
* If a sitewide trial is created, what are the metrics for success or failure?
* What is the goal of this/how will the data be used?
* If customization of current software is required, will this take away from development on other projects such as a better mobile app?
* Will or can there be a dislike/unhelpful button?
* What happens if a post that is "liked" gets its content edited and ends up having a different meaning than it initially had at the time the post was "liked"?
* Can threads or individual posts deemed helpful be bookmarked/saved?"
"Some FTers are supportive of like/helpful button. Some are not. Some on both sides of the issue have questions, concerns and/or need more info. This wiki attempts to highlight them in bullet format/"cliff notes" version from the 566 posts made in this thread. More detailed information regarding the pros/cons/questions/concerns/info can be garnered by reading the entire thread, where FTers on both sides of the like/helpful button have been eloquent/provided valuable input.
Pros:
* Make Flyertalk more modern/more like Facebook
* A like/helpful button would minimize unnecessary replies such as +1.
* Streamlines posts
* Positive feedback incentivizes quality content/FTers will post more
* Some people won’t take time to write a thank you but will post a like
* Those with more likes/helpfuls are considered knowledgable
Cons:
* Makes Flyertalk more like Facebook/dumbs it down
* FT had rating system here years ago and it did not go well
* System can be gamed/cliques develop
* Clutters up posts/takes up valuable screen space
* Will not eliminate +1s/+1s also provide positive feedback
* Posts that have inaccurate info can also get likes/doesn't mean poster is knowledgable
* If FTers post info & it doesn't get likes/helpfuls, less incentive to post more
* Some who might have posted info in the past will now just post like, so less information provided to other FTers.
Questions, concerns about how it will work, and/or information based on brief internal trial already done
* If implemented, can FTers who prefer not to utilize the like/helpful button turn it off so that they don't see it?
* Is there a software way to separate likes of posts from posters? (Limited trial indicates no; don't know if software can be changed to do so)
* Can a post/day count be implemented before implementing for FTers, similar Omni/CC? (Yes)
* Can certain forums have it turned off such as Omni? (No, current software is it's either all forums or none)
* If a sitewide trial is created, what are the metrics for success or failure?
* What is the goal of this/how will the data be used?
* If customization of current software is required, will this take away from development on other projects such as a better mobile app?
* Will or can there be a dislike/unhelpful button?
* What happens if a post that is "liked" gets its content edited and ends up having a different meaning than it initially had at the time the post was "liked"?
* Can threads or individual posts deemed helpful be bookmarked/saved?"
Last edited by SkiAdcock; Jan 13, 2015 at 7:04 am
Jan 13, 2015 | 7:00 am
#566
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: LHR
Programs: DL DM 2MM, BA Bronze, Various Hotels
Posts: 10,188
The wiki:
"Some FTers are supportive of like/helpful button. Some are not. Some on both sides of the issue have questions, concerns and/or need more info. This wiki attempts to highlight them in bullet format/"cliff notes" version from the 566 posts made in this thread. More detailed information regarding the pros/cons/questions/concerns/info can be garnered by reading the entire thread, where FTers on both sides of the like/helpful button have been eloquent/provided valuable input.
<deleted to save space>
"Some FTers are supportive of like/helpful button. Some are not. Some on both sides of the issue have questions, concerns and/or need more info. This wiki attempts to highlight them in bullet format/"cliff notes" version from the 566 posts made in this thread. More detailed information regarding the pros/cons/questions/concerns/info can be garnered by reading the entire thread, where FTers on both sides of the like/helpful button have been eloquent/provided valuable input.
<deleted to save space>
Thank you for your efforts to summarize all of this information!!!
Jan 13, 2015 | 7:52 am
#567
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Denver, CO, USA
Programs: Sometimes known as [ARG:6 UNDEFINED]
Posts: 28,758
Jan 13, 2015 | 7:53 am
#568
Join Date: Mar 2014
Programs: AA Exec Plat, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Bonvoy Platinum
Posts: 261
Inherently, neither "dislike" nor "like" is necessarily a reflection on the poster, depending on the context. For example, I could post that XYZ Airline failed to honor my upgrades and lost my luggage. I would see "dislike" as a gesture of support in that case.
Jan 13, 2015 | 9:16 am
#569
In Memoriam, FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Durham, NC (RDU/GSO/CLT)
Programs: AA EXP/MM, DL GM, UA Platinum, HH DIA, Hyatt Explorist, IHG Platinum, Marriott Titanium, Hertz PC
Posts: 33,856
Jan 13, 2015 | 9:16 am
#570
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Home
Programs: AA, Delta, UA & thanks to FTers for my PC Gold!
Posts: 7,674
What's the point of this poll when "Like" and "Helpful" are a bundled vote?
I don't think FTers can thank you enough for the effort you put into this and all other matters on FT, Sharon. ^
Having said that, we can all see the growing voting "trend" of this poll, which will conclude soon. For those of us who have actively observed and/or participated in this discussion thread, we all learn and/or agree "Like" is NOT the same as "Helpful", however the poll is set up with a thread titled with "Like" and the poll worded for "Helpful." I have to wonder how many of the yes votes are for "Like" and how many are for "Helpful" when the poll itself is presenting in such a confusing manner. I also wonder among those who did cast their votes, how many people did read and/or give a thought about the differences between "Like" and "Helpful" before voting. If there are enough votes cast in some "mindless" manner, what's the point of this poll, I have to ask? Not to mention statistically, no significant result can be concluded when the sample size isn't big enough and the votes aren't random enough to be representative of the FT population. (In other words, if there are say 500 support votes for a helpful/like button, do 500 yes-votes speak for FT currently with 579,885 members? If not, why bother?)
As we all know Flyertalk establishes and earns its reputation over the years by the content and quality of the posts members created and ideas exchanged on FT. That isn't something can be quantified. Let alone "Helpful" can sometimes be debatable. Something helpful to Member A can be useless for Member B.
I personally think some in-depth and qualitative discussion of any feature is much more valuable than a muddy poll when the headcount cannot tell us something meaningful. I would think if admin and TB is going to work on improving FT, more thought and effort should be directed toward the questions & concerns raised in thread that Sharon had helped us compile in the wikipost.
Having said that, we can all see the growing voting "trend" of this poll, which will conclude soon. For those of us who have actively observed and/or participated in this discussion thread, we all learn and/or agree "Like" is NOT the same as "Helpful", however the poll is set up with a thread titled with "Like" and the poll worded for "Helpful." I have to wonder how many of the yes votes are for "Like" and how many are for "Helpful" when the poll itself is presenting in such a confusing manner. I also wonder among those who did cast their votes, how many people did read and/or give a thought about the differences between "Like" and "Helpful" before voting. If there are enough votes cast in some "mindless" manner, what's the point of this poll, I have to ask? Not to mention statistically, no significant result can be concluded when the sample size isn't big enough and the votes aren't random enough to be representative of the FT population. (In other words, if there are say 500 support votes for a helpful/like button, do 500 yes-votes speak for FT currently with 579,885 members? If not, why bother?)
As we all know Flyertalk establishes and earns its reputation over the years by the content and quality of the posts members created and ideas exchanged on FT. That isn't something can be quantified. Let alone "Helpful" can sometimes be debatable. Something helpful to Member A can be useless for Member B.
I personally think some in-depth and qualitative discussion of any feature is much more valuable than a muddy poll when the headcount cannot tell us something meaningful. I would think if admin and TB is going to work on improving FT, more thought and effort should be directed toward the questions & concerns raised in thread that Sharon had helped us compile in the wikipost.