View Poll Results: Q: What is your view on FlyerTalk implementing a "Helpful" button feature?
Support
433
59.72%
Oppose
275
37.93%
No opinion
17
2.34%
Voters: 725. You may not vote on this poll
Jan 12, 2015, 9:07 pm
Last edit by: Prospero
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Some FTers are supportive of like/helpful button. Some are not. Some on both sides of the issue have questions, concerns and/or need more info. This wiki attempts to highlight them in bullet format/"cliff notes" version from the 566 posts in this thread. More detailed information regarding the pros/cons/questions/concerns/info can be garnered by reading the entire thread, where FTers on both sides of the like/helpful button have been eloquent/provided valuable input.
Pros:
* Makes Flyertalk more modern; more like Facebook, LinkedIn, and other progressive internet bulletin boards
* A like/helpful button would minimize unnecessary replies such as +1.
* Streamlines posts
* Positive feedback incentivizes quality content/FTers will post more
* Some people won’t take time to write a thank you but will post a like
* Those with more likes/helpfuls are considered knowledgable
Cons:
* Makes it easier for airlines/companies to find mistake fares/glitches/underground tricks
* Makes Flyertalk more like Facebook/dumbs it down
* FT had rating system here years ago and it did not go well
* System can be gamed/cliques develop
* Clutters up posts/takes up valuable screen space
* Will not eliminate +1s/+1s also provide positive feedback
* Posts that have inaccurate info can also get likes/doesn't mean poster is knowledgable
* If FTers post info & it doesn't get likes/helpfuls, less incentive to post more
* Some who might have posted info in the past will now just post like, so less information provided to other FTers.
* Older posts will tend to have more likes/helpfuls on average than newer posts in the same thread, which can be misleading when the information is out-of-date. [added by MSPeconomist]
Questions, concerns about how it will work, and/or information based on brief internal trial already done
* If implemented, can FTers who prefer not to utilize the like/helpful button turn it off so that they don't see it?
* Is there a software way to separate likes of posts from posters? (Limited trial indicates no; don't know if software can be changed to do so)
* Can a post/day count be implemented before implementing for FTers, similar Omni/CC? (Yes)
* Can certain forums have it turned off such as Omni? (No, current software is it's either all forums or none)
* If a sitewide trial is created, what are the metrics for success or failure?
* What is the goal of this/how will the data be used?
* If customization of current software is required, will this take away from development on other projects such as a better mobile app?
* Will or can there be a dislike/unhelpful button?
* What happens if a post that is "liked" gets its content edited and ends up having a different meaning than it initially had at the time the post was "liked"?
* Can threads or individual posts deemed helpful be bookmarked/saved?
* Can users "opt out" and select to remove all trace of the system, as is currently possible with the ignore list and removing view of signatures?
(lower right wiki corner)Some FTers are supportive of like/helpful button. Some are not. Some on both sides of the issue have questions, concerns and/or need more info. This wiki attempts to highlight them in bullet format/"cliff notes" version from the 566 posts in this thread. More detailed information regarding the pros/cons/questions/concerns/info can be garnered by reading the entire thread, where FTers on both sides of the like/helpful button have been eloquent/provided valuable input.
Pros:
* Makes Flyertalk more modern; more like Facebook, LinkedIn, and other progressive internet bulletin boards
* A like/helpful button would minimize unnecessary replies such as +1.
* Streamlines posts
* Positive feedback incentivizes quality content/FTers will post more
* Some people won’t take time to write a thank you but will post a like
* Those with more likes/helpfuls are considered knowledgable
Cons:
* Makes it easier for airlines/companies to find mistake fares/glitches/underground tricks
* Makes Flyertalk more like Facebook/dumbs it down
* FT had rating system here years ago and it did not go well
* System can be gamed/cliques develop
* Clutters up posts/takes up valuable screen space
* Will not eliminate +1s/+1s also provide positive feedback
* Posts that have inaccurate info can also get likes/doesn't mean poster is knowledgable
* If FTers post info & it doesn't get likes/helpfuls, less incentive to post more
* Some who might have posted info in the past will now just post like, so less information provided to other FTers.
* Older posts will tend to have more likes/helpfuls on average than newer posts in the same thread, which can be misleading when the information is out-of-date. [added by MSPeconomist]
Questions, concerns about how it will work, and/or information based on brief internal trial already done
* If implemented, can FTers who prefer not to utilize the like/helpful button turn it off so that they don't see it?
* Is there a software way to separate likes of posts from posters? (Limited trial indicates no; don't know if software can be changed to do so)
* Can a post/day count be implemented before implementing for FTers, similar Omni/CC? (Yes)
* Can certain forums have it turned off such as Omni? (No, current software is it's either all forums or none)
* If a sitewide trial is created, what are the metrics for success or failure?
* What is the goal of this/how will the data be used?
* If customization of current software is required, will this take away from development on other projects such as a better mobile app?
* Will or can there be a dislike/unhelpful button?
* What happens if a post that is "liked" gets its content edited and ends up having a different meaning than it initially had at the time the post was "liked"?
* Can threads or individual posts deemed helpful be bookmarked/saved?
* Can users "opt out" and select to remove all trace of the system, as is currently possible with the ignore list and removing view of signatures?
"Like" Button?
Jan 15, 2015, 1:39 pm
#631
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I would hope so--you deserve a lot of thank you notes by PM and email rather than just clicks on some "like" icon. You contribute a lot of information to the AA forum and also help many people behind the scenes, especially those who were caught in all of the recent account audits.
, and they are FAR more meaningful, no question about it.
Jan 15, 2015, 1:43 pm
#632
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When the subject was brought up in 2013, FTers were split for/against approx 50/50%. When it was bumped up in 2014, FTers were split for/against approx 50/50%%. When the poll was first started, the nos were ahead of the yeses. That's now 59/39/2 yes to no (and some no opinion). With the poll, the sitewide announcement & mention in TM driving traffic, there are more yes votes. But the difference between before & now is still only 9%. I'm not sure I'd call a 9 point increase over 50/50 (especially given all the visibility) a huge clamoring for this feature.
Some are suggesting trials, but quite frankly I'd still question whether this is something that's of paramount concern/acclaim for implementation to go to trial.
If TB thinks it is, then it needs to first address/answer the very legitimate questions and concerns BEFORE a trial is implemented. If it can't, then it shouldn't move forward. And it's ridiculous to suggest doing a trial in a few selected forums. If TB wants to implement something that's going to impact all of FT, then the trial has to be across ALL of FT.
Cheers.
Some are suggesting trials, but quite frankly I'd still question whether this is something that's of paramount concern/acclaim for implementation to go to trial.
If TB thinks it is, then it needs to first address/answer the very legitimate questions and concerns BEFORE a trial is implemented. If it can't, then it shouldn't move forward. And it's ridiculous to suggest doing a trial in a few selected forums. If TB wants to implement something that's going to impact all of FT, then the trial has to be across ALL of FT.
Cheers.
Last edited by SkiAdcock; Jan 15, 2015 at 2:08 pm
Jan 15, 2015, 1:49 pm
#633
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
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Posts: 100,404
"Alert a moderator" is one of the vBulletin functions needing improvement, IMHO. It provides no convenient way for a moderator to respond to the originator. Such a response would be useful when the moderator decides not to take any public action. Currently the originator has no way to know that the Alert was ever read.
I'm pretty sure that this problem has been mentioned to IB more than once, but I will be sure to include it in any discussions of software modifications for a "Helpful" button.
I'm pretty sure that this problem has been mentioned to IB more than once, but I will be sure to include it in any discussions of software modifications for a "Helpful" button.
Jan 15, 2015, 1:52 pm
#634
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
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Posts: 100,404
When the subject was brought up in 2013, FTers were split for/against approx 50/50%. When it was bumped up in 2014, FTers were split for/against approx 50/50%%. When the poll was first started, the nos were ahead of the yeses. That's now 59/39/2 yes to no (and some no opinion). With the poll, the sitewide announcement & mention in TM driving traffic, there are more yes votes. But the difference between before & now is still only 9%. I'm not sure I'd call a 9 point increase over 50/50 (especially given all the visibility) a huge clamoring for this feature.
Some are suggesting trials, but quite frankly I'd still question whether this is something that's of paramount concern/acclaim for implementation to go to trial.
If TB thinks it is, then it needs to first address/answer the very legitimate questions and concerns before a trial is implemented. If it can't, then it shouldn't move forward. And it's ridiculous to suggest doing a trial in a few selected forums. If TB wants to implement something that's going to impact all of FT, then the trial has to be across ALL of FT.
Cheers.
Some are suggesting trials, but quite frankly I'd still question whether this is something that's of paramount concern/acclaim for implementation to go to trial.
If TB thinks it is, then it needs to first address/answer the very legitimate questions and concerns before a trial is implemented. If it can't, then it shouldn't move forward. And it's ridiculous to suggest doing a trial in a few selected forums. If TB wants to implement something that's going to impact all of FT, then the trial has to be across ALL of FT.
Cheers.
Jan 15, 2015, 2:07 pm
#635
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Join Date: Aug 2002
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Posts: 71,107
Often a political poll has a margin of error of plus or minus three percent. Yet these polls have carefully constructed wordings of the question and tend to use stratified samples of various (demographic and other) subgroups or responders ("oversampling" the smaller groups) within the targeted population.
Cheers.
Jan 15, 2015, 2:10 pm
#636
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Posts: 100,404
Jan 15, 2015, 2:22 pm
#637
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Cheers.
Jan 15, 2015, 2:28 pm
#638
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Huh? You think it's likely ("Maybe; maybe not") that this poll with its response rate is more accurate than polls constructed and conducted by professional pollsters (not professional politicians, there is a difference between the statistical consultants and the candidates)?
Jan 15, 2015, 2:37 pm
#639
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Huh? You think it's likely ("Maybe; maybe not") that this poll with its response rate is more accurate than polls constructed and conducted by professional pollsters (not professional politicians, there is a difference between the statistical consultants and the candidates)?
Cheers.
Jan 15, 2015, 2:52 pm
#640
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: EWR
Posts: 2,112
I don't know how you could say that with a straight face, because I sure couldn't do it. Just because there's no downvote button, the mere presence of an upvote type mechanism will form factions. The only thing the downvote mechanism will do is just make the existing mess bigger. Not having the downvote mechanism will still result in factions who just compete for more upvotes (or as I would say, <you can't say that here> with whatever mechanism is available to them)
Last edited by JDiver; Jan 15, 2015 at 10:50 pm Reason: http://www.flyertalk.com/help/rules.php#offensive
Jan 15, 2015, 3:22 pm
#641
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The difference between [50% in favor to 50% opposed] to [59% in favor to 39% opposed] sure isn't 9%
Jan 15, 2015, 4:54 pm
#642
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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(For that matter, do we even want a per-user upvote counter?)
Last edited by JDiver; Jan 17, 2015 at 6:41 pm Reason: redacted previously deleted offensiveness
Jan 15, 2015, 5:07 pm
#643
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Posts: 51,047
Jan 15, 2015, 5:15 pm
#644
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: ICT
Programs: AA ExP
Posts: 1,860
What I was trying to say tactfully is that it's pretty hard to be a good TB member and ignore this turnout and 60/38 vote split. Furthermore, history is not on the side of those against the Like button. It's clearly been massively successful in a wide range of applications. It's crowdsourcing at its finest.
Saying it can be a tool of trolls or nasty people is a non-sequitur as *posts* can also be a tool of suchlike. We already have the mod system in place. If the content of the post is acceptable according to FT rules and mods have not taken action, liking a certain post should be acceptable as well. If a post is within the rules but has a mean spirit behind it, a post with a nicer spirit should be made by people who are those sorts of people and the likes can proceed apace on each respective post. The bottom line is, any method of communication is simply a reflection of those communicating. We can no more stop mean people by limiting ourselves to morse code than we can by refusing to implement Likes.
The bottom line, IMO, is that Likes are a massively helpful innovation that helps quality content rise to the top (SlickDeals, a similar forum, does an outstanding job with this) via rewarding quality work (through reputation scoring) and via curation. Furthermore, a clear majority of FTers wants it.
Saying it can be a tool of trolls or nasty people is a non-sequitur as *posts* can also be a tool of suchlike. We already have the mod system in place. If the content of the post is acceptable according to FT rules and mods have not taken action, liking a certain post should be acceptable as well. If a post is within the rules but has a mean spirit behind it, a post with a nicer spirit should be made by people who are those sorts of people and the likes can proceed apace on each respective post. The bottom line is, any method of communication is simply a reflection of those communicating. We can no more stop mean people by limiting ourselves to morse code than we can by refusing to implement Likes.
The bottom line, IMO, is that Likes are a massively helpful innovation that helps quality content rise to the top (SlickDeals, a similar forum, does an outstanding job with this) via rewarding quality work (through reputation scoring) and via curation. Furthermore, a clear majority of FTers wants it.
Jan 15, 2015, 6:05 pm
#645
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 57,581
The bottom line, IMO, is that Likes are a massively helpful innovation that helps quality content rise to the top (SlickDeals, a similar forum, does an outstanding job with this) via rewarding quality work (through reputation scoring) and via curation. Furthermore, a clear majority of FTers wants it.
