View Poll Results: Q: What is your view on FlyerTalk implementing a "Helpful" button feature?
Support
433
59.72%
Oppose
275
37.93%
No opinion
17
2.34%
Voters: 725. You may not vote on this poll
Jan 12, 2015, 9:07 pm
Last edit by: Prospero
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Some FTers are supportive of like/helpful button. Some are not. Some on both sides of the issue have questions, concerns and/or need more info. This wiki attempts to highlight them in bullet format/"cliff notes" version from the 566 posts in this thread. More detailed information regarding the pros/cons/questions/concerns/info can be garnered by reading the entire thread, where FTers on both sides of the like/helpful button have been eloquent/provided valuable input.
Pros:
* Makes Flyertalk more modern; more like Facebook, LinkedIn, and other progressive internet bulletin boards
* A like/helpful button would minimize unnecessary replies such as +1.
* Streamlines posts
* Positive feedback incentivizes quality content/FTers will post more
* Some people won’t take time to write a thank you but will post a like
* Those with more likes/helpfuls are considered knowledgable
Cons:
* Makes it easier for airlines/companies to find mistake fares/glitches/underground tricks
* Makes Flyertalk more like Facebook/dumbs it down
* FT had rating system here years ago and it did not go well
* System can be gamed/cliques develop
* Clutters up posts/takes up valuable screen space
* Will not eliminate +1s/+1s also provide positive feedback
* Posts that have inaccurate info can also get likes/doesn't mean poster is knowledgable
* If FTers post info & it doesn't get likes/helpfuls, less incentive to post more
* Some who might have posted info in the past will now just post like, so less information provided to other FTers.
* Older posts will tend to have more likes/helpfuls on average than newer posts in the same thread, which can be misleading when the information is out-of-date. [added by MSPeconomist]
Questions, concerns about how it will work, and/or information based on brief internal trial already done
* If implemented, can FTers who prefer not to utilize the like/helpful button turn it off so that they don't see it?
* Is there a software way to separate likes of posts from posters? (Limited trial indicates no; don't know if software can be changed to do so)
* Can a post/day count be implemented before implementing for FTers, similar Omni/CC? (Yes)
* Can certain forums have it turned off such as Omni? (No, current software is it's either all forums or none)
* If a sitewide trial is created, what are the metrics for success or failure?
* What is the goal of this/how will the data be used?
* If customization of current software is required, will this take away from development on other projects such as a better mobile app?
* Will or can there be a dislike/unhelpful button?
* What happens if a post that is "liked" gets its content edited and ends up having a different meaning than it initially had at the time the post was "liked"?
* Can threads or individual posts deemed helpful be bookmarked/saved?
* Can users "opt out" and select to remove all trace of the system, as is currently possible with the ignore list and removing view of signatures?
(lower right wiki corner)Some FTers are supportive of like/helpful button. Some are not. Some on both sides of the issue have questions, concerns and/or need more info. This wiki attempts to highlight them in bullet format/"cliff notes" version from the 566 posts in this thread. More detailed information regarding the pros/cons/questions/concerns/info can be garnered by reading the entire thread, where FTers on both sides of the like/helpful button have been eloquent/provided valuable input.
Pros:
* Makes Flyertalk more modern; more like Facebook, LinkedIn, and other progressive internet bulletin boards
* A like/helpful button would minimize unnecessary replies such as +1.
* Streamlines posts
* Positive feedback incentivizes quality content/FTers will post more
* Some people won’t take time to write a thank you but will post a like
* Those with more likes/helpfuls are considered knowledgable
Cons:
* Makes it easier for airlines/companies to find mistake fares/glitches/underground tricks
* Makes Flyertalk more like Facebook/dumbs it down
* FT had rating system here years ago and it did not go well
* System can be gamed/cliques develop
* Clutters up posts/takes up valuable screen space
* Will not eliminate +1s/+1s also provide positive feedback
* Posts that have inaccurate info can also get likes/doesn't mean poster is knowledgable
* If FTers post info & it doesn't get likes/helpfuls, less incentive to post more
* Some who might have posted info in the past will now just post like, so less information provided to other FTers.
* Older posts will tend to have more likes/helpfuls on average than newer posts in the same thread, which can be misleading when the information is out-of-date. [added by MSPeconomist]
Questions, concerns about how it will work, and/or information based on brief internal trial already done
* If implemented, can FTers who prefer not to utilize the like/helpful button turn it off so that they don't see it?
* Is there a software way to separate likes of posts from posters? (Limited trial indicates no; don't know if software can be changed to do so)
* Can a post/day count be implemented before implementing for FTers, similar Omni/CC? (Yes)
* Can certain forums have it turned off such as Omni? (No, current software is it's either all forums or none)
* If a sitewide trial is created, what are the metrics for success or failure?
* What is the goal of this/how will the data be used?
* If customization of current software is required, will this take away from development on other projects such as a better mobile app?
* Will or can there be a dislike/unhelpful button?
* What happens if a post that is "liked" gets its content edited and ends up having a different meaning than it initially had at the time the post was "liked"?
* Can threads or individual posts deemed helpful be bookmarked/saved?
* Can users "opt out" and select to remove all trace of the system, as is currently possible with the ignore list and removing view of signatures?
"Like" Button?
Jan 10, 2015, 4:14 pm
#526
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Miami, Mpls & London
Programs: AA & Marriott Perpetual Platinum; DL & HH Gold
Posts: 48,954
I support the idea of a Helpful post button because it adds a qualitative dimension to the post counts, titles (Evangelist, Legend), and program affiliations which members may use to assess a post's credibility. Positive reinforcement encourages more of the same, and this tool should increase engagement of members who are high quality, but infrequent, posters.
We already have a triangular Unhelpful button, located in the lower left corner of every post.
I don't think TalkBoard's role is to simply follow the results of a poll, but the number of members who have voted in the poll approaches the number who voted in the most recent TalkBoard election, and it should be given some weight.
We already have a triangular Unhelpful button, located in the lower left corner of every post.
I don't think TalkBoard's role is to simply follow the results of a poll, but the number of members who have voted in the poll approaches the number who voted in the most recent TalkBoard election, and it should be given some weight.
Jan 10, 2015, 5:05 pm
#527
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Either at the shooting range or anywhere good beer can be found...
Posts: 51,045
I support the idea of a Helpful post button because it adds a qualitative dimension to the post counts, titles (Evangelist, Legend), and program affiliations which members may use to assess a post's credibility. Positive reinforcement encourages more of the same, and this tool should increase engagement of members who are high quality, but infrequent, posters.
We already have a triangular Unhelpful button, located in the lower left corner of every post.
I don't think TalkBoard's role is to simply follow the results of a poll, but the number of members who have voted in the poll approaches the number who voted in the most recent TalkBoard election, and it should be given some weight.
We already have a triangular Unhelpful button, located in the lower left corner of every post.
I don't think TalkBoard's role is to simply follow the results of a poll, but the number of members who have voted in the poll approaches the number who voted in the most recent TalkBoard election, and it should be given some weight.
Jan 10, 2015, 6:06 pm
#528
Moderator: Southwest Airlines, Capital One
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: California
Programs: WN Companion Pass, A-list preferred, Hyatt Globalist; United Club Lietime (sic) Member
Posts: 21,621
I'm pretty sure that this problem has been mentioned to IB more than once, but I will be sure to include it in any discussions of software modifications for a "Helpful" button.
Jan 10, 2015, 6:09 pm
#529
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Either at the shooting range or anywhere good beer can be found...
Posts: 51,045
"Alert a moderator" is one of the vBulletin functions needing improvement, IMHO. It provides no convenient way for a moderator to respond to the originator. Such a response would be useful when the moderator decides not to take any public action. Currently the originator has no way to know that the Alert was ever read.
I'm pretty sure that this problem has been mentioned to IB more than once, but I will be sure to include it in any discussions of software modifications for a "Helpful" button.
I'm pretty sure that this problem has been mentioned to IB more than once, but I will be sure to include it in any discussions of software modifications for a "Helpful" button.
Jan 10, 2015, 7:09 pm
#530
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: DSM
Programs: UA 1K, AA EP, DL PL, HH Dia, Marriott Gld, National Exp
Posts: 721
I support the idea of a Helpful post button because it adds a qualitative dimension to the post counts, titles (Evangelist, Legend), and program affiliations which members may use to assess a post's credibility. Positive reinforcement encourages more of the same, and this tool should increase engagement of members who are high quality, but infrequent, posters.
Jan 10, 2015, 8:37 pm
#531
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Miami, Mpls & London
Programs: AA & Marriott Perpetual Platinum; DL & HH Gold
Posts: 48,954
If I do receive an Alert indicating that a post is inaccurate (rather than misplaced or disruptive) I either post a reply as described in the previous paragraph, or contact the poster and suggest an edit, but anyone could contact any poster by PM (unless the member has opted out of the feature) to suggest an edit.
Last edited by mia; Jan 10, 2015 at 8:57 pm
Jan 10, 2015, 9:38 pm
#532
Moderator: Smoking Lounge; FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: SFO
Programs: Lifetime (for now) Gold MM, HH Gold, Giving Tootsie Pops to UA employees, & a retired hockey goalie
Posts: 28,878
If a post contains inaccurate information it would not be ideal to mark it "Unhelpful". Instead, you should reply to the thread by posting the correct information. If there were a Helpful button your more accurate reply should attract clicks.
If I do receive an Alert indicating that a post is inaccurate (rather than misplaced or disruptive) I either post a reply as described in the previous paragraph, or contact the poster and suggest an edit, but anyone could contact any poster by PM (unless the member has opted out of the feature) to suggest an edit.
If I do receive an Alert indicating that a post is inaccurate (rather than misplaced or disruptive) I either post a reply as described in the previous paragraph, or contact the poster and suggest an edit, but anyone could contact any poster by PM (unless the member has opted out of the feature) to suggest an edit.
Jan 10, 2015, 10:10 pm
#533
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Miami, Mpls & London
Programs: AA & Marriott Perpetual Platinum; DL & HH Gold
Posts: 48,954
Last edited by mia; Jan 10, 2015 at 10:32 pm
Jan 10, 2015, 10:33 pm
#534
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: SGF
Programs: AS, AA, UA, AGR S (former 75K, GLD, 1K, and S+, now an elite peon)
Posts: 23,194
But we're not talking about a moderator editing a post here, we're talking (or at least the way I read it) about a post marked as helpful when it is not in fact that and what action a moderator is/is not to take-and THAT is a very big difference as I personally don't think moderators should be acting on what other members like/dislike/find helpful as then moderators are changing the opinion of another member. And with all of that, no one who has proposed or is actively supporting this issue has stated how that comes into play (or answered other questions for that matter but I digress)
It kind of sounds like you're saying that you do not believe moderators should be censors of inaccurate information. That's fine, and I don't see any proposal here to make moderators censors of inaccurate information.
Jan 10, 2015, 11:56 pm
#535
Moderator, Hilton Honors
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: on a short leash
Programs: some
Posts: 71,422
I support the idea of a Helpful post button because it adds a qualitative dimension to the post counts, titles (Evangelist, Legend), and program affiliations which members may use to assess a post's credibility. Positive reinforcement encourages more of the same, and this tool should increase engagement of members who are high quality, but infrequent, posters.
We already have a triangular Unhelpful button, located in the lower left corner of every post.
I don't think TalkBoard's role is to simply follow the results of a poll, but the number of members who have voted in the poll approaches the number who voted in the most recent TalkBoard election, and it should be given some weight.
We already have a triangular Unhelpful button, located in the lower left corner of every post.
I don't think TalkBoard's role is to simply follow the results of a poll, but the number of members who have voted in the poll approaches the number who voted in the most recent TalkBoard election, and it should be given some weight.
Unless the post is edited there is no public record to offset a helpful indicator. If you're suggesting that moderators be tasked with updating posts for inaccurate or dated info, that it a significant reach beyond what I understand the moderator's role to be. This might not be welcomed by general membership of FT (how long before accusations of censorship arise?) or by moderators (significant extra workload and quite a change in tone of interaction with other members).
Jan 11, 2015, 1:43 am
#536
Moderator, Finnair
Join Date: May 2011
Location: MMX (CPH)
Programs: Eurobonus Diamond, QR Gold, AY+ Platinum, A3*G, Nordic Choice Lifetime Platinum, SJ Prio Black
Posts: 14,172
Nsx said the reason for re-opening this feature request was his pledge to his constituency, so a support of some 385 votes in this poll is to be expected. Some of the proponents are campaigning for this poll while I haven't seen any of opponents do, so I guess that means the final result will be a majority of 'support' when the poll closes.
But if the like feature was the main platform of nsx's TB candidacy, what does another poll really say that the TB election didn't say? Are we just polling nsx's TB candidacy all over again?
Of course we can't know that each poll'er meant by their vote. My point is a poll can only go so far in aiding the TB for a decision. I think we elect a complete TB to make balanced and informed decisions for us using all available information. A poll can be given more or less weight depending on circumstances, but I guess what I am saying is that it still is just a poll.
I very much appreciate TB having this thread open and nsx for returning to the thread and keeping outlining his thoughts. I've seen a lot of very good comments here and I hope this thread have been as helpful to TB as intended. At this point I find it difficult to add anything substantial.
Jan 11, 2015, 6:25 am
#537
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Either at the shooting range or anywhere good beer can be found...
Posts: 51,045
If a post contains inaccurate information it would not be ideal to mark it "Unhelpful". Instead, you should reply to the thread by posting the correct information. If there were a Helpful button your more accurate reply should attract clicks.
If I do receive an Alert indicating that a post is inaccurate (rather than misplaced or disruptive) I either post a reply as described in the previous paragraph, or contact the poster and suggest an edit, but anyone could contact any poster by PM (unless the member has opted out of the feature) to suggest an edit.
If I do receive an Alert indicating that a post is inaccurate (rather than misplaced or disruptive) I either post a reply as described in the previous paragraph, or contact the poster and suggest an edit, but anyone could contact any poster by PM (unless the member has opted out of the feature) to suggest an edit.
I may have misunderstood, but I believe Kipper asked about what a moderator does if the existing Alert function is used to report an inaccurate post. Opinions are neither accurate nor inaccurate. I ignore Alerts which express disagreement with an opinion. I act on Alerts which report inaccurate factual content, but I do not edit the post directly.
Jan 11, 2015, 8:15 am
#538
Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Miami, Mpls & London
Programs: AA & Marriott Perpetual Platinum; DL & HH Gold
Posts: 48,954
It is. An "inaccurate" post is not a post that should be marked as Unhelpful. If you recognize that the information is inaccurate, post the correct information. A disputive post is unhelpful, and can be reported with the Alert function.
Last edited by mia; Jan 11, 2015 at 8:20 am
Jan 11, 2015, 11:02 am
#539
FlyerTalk Evangelist, Ambassador: World of Hyatt
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: NJ
Programs: Hyatt Globalist, Fairmont Lifetime Plat, UA Silver, dirt elsewhere
Posts: 46,919
You sure you're not confusing the old "reputation" thing/scandal of sorts-- where there most definitely were shenanigans going on and then Randy turned on the switch revealing to all who had "dinged" them, etc with this current poll???
The post you're replying to says:
As in, the current discussion/poll.
The post you're replying to says:
As in, the current discussion/poll.
They were examples.
I believe there was a concerted effort over a couple of days to get people to vote "Yes."
Jan 11, 2015, 11:57 am
#540
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: LHR
Programs: DL DM 2MM, BA Bronze, Various Hotels
Posts: 10,187
When posted information is inaccurate, hopefully it is alerted to the mods or, if others point it out to the OP, the OP adjusts/deletes the misinformation.