VetteElite

Being so young, by the time aviation was becoming one of my favorite interests/hobbies in my late teens, all anyone talked about was how the hub was going to be pulled at any moment since the newly merged airline had no need for it. I really wish I had known the glory days of the CO hub. Now, going through CLE seems so sad: it's oversized and outdated. You're probably right that they'll sprinkle the airlines around and act like all is well. It'll be pretty jarring - nice check in counters but dingy terminals.

I still don't understand terminal D fully. Since it was built before everything revolved around the internet, it's hard to find info about the planning and construction of it. Just seems so poorly thought out. Plus, isn't it the reason the rental cars are where they are now? It's a shame that our newest terminal is just going to sit and rot away.

Love reading all the updates in this thread from everyone who goes through the airport often, keep it up!

lincolnjkc

That I can't answer -- I've only been in CLE since mid-2005 so it predates me. I did always get the impression that D was very "interim" feeling -- not designed to be torn down tomorrow, but also not really designed to be used for more than 15-20 years (or for anything other than regional aircraft) -- to wit the lack of holdroom space, the lack of concessions (though towards the end with the Airmall scheme they wedged a few more substantial ones in), lack of a landside anchor...

But welcome to the world of what happens when business, government, and self interest intersect..

entropy

Indeed. Its pretty lame. But the airport has been run by idiots for as long as I know. At least they were smart enough to keep CO (and now UA) on the hook for the debt.

They should be improving the experience for visitors, which means the rental car center needs to be back onsite.

CLEContinental

I've been in CLE for about 20 years, so know a little about Terminal D. I ironically flew one of the last flights into terminal D the night before it was closed off, a puddle jumper from BWI.

Continental (under Gordon Bethune) was a contrarian about how they ran an airline. They bulked up Newark when no one wanted to be there and also built CLE into a hub after United and USAir abandoned it - the thought being that a location only 1 hour from NYC and 1 hour from Chicago was a perfect location to capture 40% of the U.S. population for a hub.

Terminal D was built with the sole purpose of flying regional jets (mostly ERJ145's) from small or mid-sized cities to connect to CLE's mainlines (think Columbus, Pittsburgh, Buffalo, Green Bay, Austin, Syracuse, Albany, etc.). This worked really well when oil was at $35/barrel. But when oil spiked to $120 and regional pilots were required by the FAA to get many more hours to get licensed, the whole thesis fell apart.

The sad irony of it all is that 145s are very profitable right now with oil at $40 to fly into a hublet like CLE. But UA, under the genius that was Jeff Smisek, pulled out at the very worst time and ceded a ton of capacity to AA, B6, WN, and DL. Thus the reason United's stock price has been trailing AA, DL and even the discounters like Spirit and Allegiant badly. United continues to shrink, while everyone else continues to grow.

With all that said, the City of Cleveland is horribly run. The airport could have handled this renovation much better, but only has political lackeys with no business experience involved. There is no plan to repurpose Terminal D and landing fees are insane for an airport trying to attract traffic.

<<<World's smallest violins playing in the background>>>

ctownflyer

There's no way that CO would have signed a 30 year lease for an interim facility. They had long-term plans for CLE, they just never panned out. There were always rumors of a PC opening in D, also never came to fruition though.

9/11 scuttled a lot and then once things started to recover they announced big increases for CLE in 2007/2008...just before the great recession hit.

The shame is that with EWR and ORD being overcrowded and delayed, CLE served as one of the most reliable hubs in the system. But the pilot shortage really did CLE in.

There's no vision whatsoever at CLE now.
I've heard rumors of AA or WN adding flights to MCI, so I'm just hoping that comes true this year. Don't expect much else, let alone get service to Europe again.

VetteElite

Really wish we had some good leadership in this city in general, but especially when it comes to the airport. I don't have the experience or qualifications, but I dream of what it would be like to be airport director (well, in my mind I see myself as more of "airport benevolent dictator"). If only I were in charge, we'd have a daily Lufthansa 748 and Emirates A380

plinth857

I've heard these rumors as well. I'm actually on a flight this summer to MCI on WN with a stop in MDW... one of those stops where you don't have to get off the aircraft. I wonder if they find on these flights that there's not a lot of room for people to get on during the MDW stop, if they consider making MCI a nonstop route. It would be nice; I find myself needing to fly there at least once a year.

lincolnjkc

I think proximity (in addition to the pilot shortage) really didn't help our case -- with pmCO's hub in EWR, pmUA's hubs in ORD and IAD this section of the country was over hubified and of the four cities -- as much as I love Cleveland -- we didn't really stand a chance long term. (Well, the other option I saw was to close IAD as a hub and realistically the chances of that happening were only slightly better than ORD or EWR getting shuttered, i.e. infinitesimally small)

I just hope we can hold on to what we have and add strategic mainline.

I really do miss the CO glory days/attitudes/dependability... Though that seems to be slowly coming back.

oscar555

If you don't mind me asking, what is a "PC"?

oscar555

I remember reading somewhere that good 'old Ricky was telling a news outlet (maybe PD??) that an airline would be soon adding flight(s) to MCI. I guess either that fell through or they wanted to delay it. Then again, the airport is run by morons. The key to attracting new service is to make an enticing offer to a new airline. The folks at CLE don't seem to see that because they have outrageous takeoff/landing fees.

lincolnjkc

President's Club -- CO's name for what is now known as the "United Club" (RCC or Red Carpet Club is the "old" UA name)

oscar555

You never know, CLE could come around again. With AA moving to C, only Spirit and Frontier are left in A. Frontier has been on a huge growth mode and is expecting a delivery of 200ish planes by 2024 or something like that. They could realistically be what saves CLE since we have been a focus city for them for a while. Besides that, JetBlue snagged a new gate so we should expect new flights from them pretty soon.

ctownflyer

oscar555

Ahh, ok. That makes sense now. I actually remember reading about that now that you mention it. I don't think it really would of worked at D to be honest because the dang thing is so narrow. They would have to take half the gates out if they want it to be functioning again.

entropy

Actually, I'm pretty sure it was mostly the pilot shortage. They needed to get rid of a whole ton of 145's and killing the CLE hublet they could do so in one fell swoop.

The airport authority and the city have been too obsessed with baubles and shiny things, rather than running a good airport (for example, clearing the snow properly...) The irony is that "back in the day" CLE was a leader in airport innovation, from the rapid transit connection to runway lighting. Its not like CLE is so space constrained..