Mar 11, 2020, 10:13 am
Last edit by: Ocn Vw 1K
In order to reduce noise in the Coronavirus / Covid-19 : general fact-based reporting thread, and to create a central place to invite any member to ask a basic question about the impact of COVID-19 on travel, your moderators have decided to open this separate "lounge" thread for related discussion that isn't strictly fact-based reporting.
Any member who can provide a constructive, helpful answer to a question; or post constructively in reply to a member's point-of-view, is welcome to post.
All FT rules apply, including avoiding personalized, snarky, political, other off-topic, commercial, and repeatedly disruptive content.
Discussion of general economic impacts of Covid-19 belongs in the OMNI forum, not here.
Discussion and critique of political/government actions to aid the economy or which is far more political than related to COVID-19 is for the OMNI/PR forum, not here.
This is a protocol for posting adopted by the forum Moderator team:Please follow this protocol, based on FlyerTalk Rules and long-standing FlyerTalk best practices. Doing so will help keep the thread open, and allow our moderator team to aid members, rather than having to resort to discipline.
•Constructive, respectful posts, views, opinions, questions, and replies, related to the topic are welcome. Avoid commenting on members personally, or posting off-topic or political messages.
•While respectful disagreement of a posted view is allowed, don’t call-out posters to prove their points. FlyerTalk has never required discussion standards at the level of a Ph.D. dissertation defense, or a trial court witness cross-examination.
•After a reasonable exchange of views on a point, please yield the floor so that others may bring up different topics, questions or points.
•Especially important in this time of pandemic, when normal life and travel have been upended: please take regular breaks from the thread.
Please stay healthy,
your FT Coronavirus and Travel Moderator Team.
Any member who can provide a constructive, helpful answer to a question; or post constructively in reply to a member's point-of-view, is welcome to post.
All FT rules apply, including avoiding personalized, snarky, political, other off-topic, commercial, and repeatedly disruptive content.
Discussion of general economic impacts of Covid-19 belongs in the OMNI forum, not here.
Discussion and critique of political/government actions to aid the economy or which is far more political than related to COVID-19 is for the OMNI/PR forum, not here.
This is a protocol for posting adopted by the forum Moderator team:Please follow this protocol, based on FlyerTalk Rules and long-standing FlyerTalk best practices. Doing so will help keep the thread open, and allow our moderator team to aid members, rather than having to resort to discipline.
•Constructive, respectful posts, views, opinions, questions, and replies, related to the topic are welcome. Avoid commenting on members personally, or posting off-topic or political messages.
•While respectful disagreement of a posted view is allowed, don’t call-out posters to prove their points. FlyerTalk has never required discussion standards at the level of a Ph.D. dissertation defense, or a trial court witness cross-examination.
•After a reasonable exchange of views on a point, please yield the floor so that others may bring up different topics, questions or points.
•Especially important in this time of pandemic, when normal life and travel have been upended: please take regular breaks from the thread.
Please stay healthy,
your FT Coronavirus and Travel Moderator Team.
COVID-19: Lounge thread for thoughts, concerns and questions
Mar 22, 2020, 1:01 pm
#1321
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Seat 1A, Juice pretty much everywhere, Mucci des Coins Exotiques
Posts: 34,339
It's not being "locked up" and you're positing a situation that may not occur as a reason to pan what is happening in this one.
Living mostly inside is still living and can still be fulfilling. You're painting an absurd picture of the situation that is not close to reality.
Living mostly inside is still living and can still be fulfilling. You're painting an absurd picture of the situation that is not close to reality.
And remember, the children are the future!
Mar 22, 2020, 1:01 pm
#1322
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Madison, WI, USA
Posts: 14,162
No, that was not the claim. I'm pretty sure I wrote "zero prosperity". Zero means zero. Your "poor" is not the same as being poor in a 3rd world country that all of a sudden cannot sell many of its goods to the wealthy countries.
I was living in Uganda a year ago and there is no one as financially poor in America than the average Ugandan.
I was living in Uganda a year ago and there is no one as financially poor in America than the average Ugandan.
And yes, even here poor can mean zero prosperity. It was certainly true in my family.
Mar 22, 2020, 1:01 pm
#1323
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Pacific Northwest
Programs: UA Gold 1MM, AS 75k, AA Plat, Bonvoyed Gold, Honors Dia, Hyatt Explorer, IHG Plat, ...
Posts: 16,859
Mar 22, 2020, 1:04 pm
#1324
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Madison, WI, USA
Posts: 14,162
Also, Italy is only one of many countries in Europe, not all of Europe.
Mar 22, 2020, 1:08 pm
#1325
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 10,971
Is being locked up for 12 weeks or 9 months as are beingn described really living though? And what happens if this keeps occuring every few years as we see more frequently these "super bug" crises, How much are we going to quarantine and isolate ourselves before we decide enough is enough, 5% of our lives, 10%, 50%? I posed this the other day, what if life is about more than just surviving? Because right now it seems all anyone cares about is surviving, even if we aren't truly living.
This has long been predicted. Past episodes came and went. I think after this, the world will take it more seriously. The longer this drags on, the more it will change how we do a lot of things for years to come - and that becomes the new norm.
Mar 22, 2020, 1:08 pm
#1326
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Madison, WI, USA
Posts: 14,162
While I think that most of us older folks agree with you and chastise those kids we see on those spring break videos, we have to realize that they have a different perspective. They may grudgingly agree to stay locked up for 3 or 4 weeks, but not much longer. Who is going to stop them from sneaking out to have a party? There aren't enough soldiers.
And remember, the children are the future!
And remember, the children are the future!
Mar 22, 2020, 1:09 pm
#1327
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Seat 1A, Juice pretty much everywhere, Mucci des Coins Exotiques
Posts: 34,339
Mar 22, 2020, 1:13 pm
#1328
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Madison, WI, USA
Posts: 14,162
Nor did I say health doesn't matter. I said, for the 3rd time today, ya gotta have both health and prosperity. We cannot destroy our economy. The US is now going to spend trillions to fight SARS-CoV2. We can do that because we have trillions. If we didn't have such a great economy, what would we do?
This is exactly what you wrote, and what I responded to: "And if they have zero prosperity, health doesn't matter." So, yes, you did say that.
Mar 22, 2020, 1:13 pm
#1329
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 10,971
Nor did I say health doesn't matter. I said, for the 3rd time today, ya gotta have both health and prosperity. We cannot destroy our economy. The US is now going to spend trillions to fight SARS-CoV2. We can do that because we have trillions. If we didn't have such a great economy, what would we do?
We also don't have trillions. We have a lot of debt. However, fighting Covid-19 is more important than those principles - civil liberty, fiscal responsibility/national debt, etc. for now, IMHO.
Mar 22, 2020, 1:14 pm
#1330
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
[OMNI/PR comment redacted]
As far as Europe goes, all you need to do is look at Worldometer and see that the data indicates that Europe has now hit the backside of the infection curve. I can't recall seeing a major European country with more infections today than yesterday, and the worst hit -- like Italy and Spain -- are showing material declines. Data is data, and the end of the world never comes.
As far as Europe goes, all you need to do is look at Worldometer and see that the data indicates that Europe has now hit the backside of the infection curve. I can't recall seeing a major European country with more infections today than yesterday, and the worst hit -- like Italy and Spain -- are showing material declines. Data is data, and the end of the world never comes.
About Europe, look at the death count from Friday and Saturday. It’s not pretty.
Last edited by NewbieRunner; Mar 23, 2020 at 1:49 am Reason: See notes above
Mar 22, 2020, 1:14 pm
#1331
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Pacific Northwest
Programs: UA Gold 1MM, AS 75k, AA Plat, Bonvoyed Gold, Honors Dia, Hyatt Explorer, IHG Plat, ...
Posts: 16,859
It’s also the Hubei of Europe.
”As medical workers in Italy struggle to treat patients with coronavirus, a large number of them have contracted the virus themselves.Seventeen doctors have died from Covid-19 and there are a total of 3,654 medical staff who are infected, according to the country's National Health Institute.”
(two days ago)
I wonder what the front line medical workers in Italy would think if they had time to read this thread. They are literally putting their lives and that of their families at risk while people here whine that Italians can’t exercise outside for the time being.
Mar 22, 2020, 1:14 pm
#1332
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 2,281
I'd expect they'd want me to live my life because tomorrow isn't guaranteed. Not run and hide from something that as of yet hasn't even been shown to infect 0.004% of the world population. And has killed less than 0.00001% of the world population. In every country, including Italy, daily deaths from other causes still far exceeds the numbers dying from Coronavirus. And the effects of prolonged social isolation (some people calling for minimum 10-12 weeks) on mental health and ongoing economic damage is going to kill far more people than this virus will.
Mar 22, 2020, 1:19 pm
#1333
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Bregenz, Austria
Programs: AA, BAEC, Alaska, Flying Blue, United, IHG, Hilton
Posts: 2,950
"My parents worked and fought very hard for the lifestyle we have now, and we should enjoy it while we still can. If we don't, they fought for nothing. I probably don't have very many useful years of my life left now, and I don't want to spend them living like a [expletive deleted] hermit."
Mar 22, 2020, 1:23 pm
#1334
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 38,417
The difference in freedom and opportunity between the “pass” and the “no data / fail” would be very significant. Since “no test” would no doubt be generally viewed the same as “fail”, at an absolute minimum we must ensure that such testing is available to all equally. I’m not sure that our societies are set up in a way that can ensure that.
Mar 22, 2020, 1:27 pm
#1335
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 6,752
While I'm ok with a 30 day shut down, and find it reasonable to defer to the experts, for whom I have the utmost respect, which shouldn't be taken to mean I'd abandon all independent thought and my right of self-determination. If after 30 days, things aren't improving, it's time to move on. We can survive this carnage.
Last edited by NewbieRunner; Mar 23, 2020 at 1:55 am Reason: Redacted political comment