Mar 11, 2020, 10:13 am
Last edit by: Ocn Vw 1K
In order to reduce noise in the Coronavirus / Covid-19 : general fact-based reporting thread, and to create a central place to invite any member to ask a basic question about the impact of COVID-19 on travel, your moderators have decided to open this separate "lounge" thread for related discussion that isn't strictly fact-based reporting.
Any member who can provide a constructive, helpful answer to a question; or post constructively in reply to a member's point-of-view, is welcome to post.
All FT rules apply, including avoiding personalized, snarky, political, other off-topic, commercial, and repeatedly disruptive content.
Discussion of general economic impacts of Covid-19 belongs in the OMNI forum, not here.
Discussion and critique of political/government actions to aid the economy or which is far more political than related to COVID-19 is for the OMNI/PR forum, not here.
This is a protocol for posting adopted by the forum Moderator team:Please follow this protocol, based on FlyerTalk Rules and long-standing FlyerTalk best practices. Doing so will help keep the thread open, and allow our moderator team to aid members, rather than having to resort to discipline.
•Constructive, respectful posts, views, opinions, questions, and replies, related to the topic are welcome. Avoid commenting on members personally, or posting off-topic or political messages.
•While respectful disagreement of a posted view is allowed, don’t call-out posters to prove their points. FlyerTalk has never required discussion standards at the level of a Ph.D. dissertation defense, or a trial court witness cross-examination.
•After a reasonable exchange of views on a point, please yield the floor so that others may bring up different topics, questions or points.
•Especially important in this time of pandemic, when normal life and travel have been upended: please take regular breaks from the thread.
Please stay healthy,
your FT Coronavirus and Travel Moderator Team.
Any member who can provide a constructive, helpful answer to a question; or post constructively in reply to a member's point-of-view, is welcome to post.
All FT rules apply, including avoiding personalized, snarky, political, other off-topic, commercial, and repeatedly disruptive content.
Discussion of general economic impacts of Covid-19 belongs in the OMNI forum, not here.
Discussion and critique of political/government actions to aid the economy or which is far more political than related to COVID-19 is for the OMNI/PR forum, not here.
This is a protocol for posting adopted by the forum Moderator team:Please follow this protocol, based on FlyerTalk Rules and long-standing FlyerTalk best practices. Doing so will help keep the thread open, and allow our moderator team to aid members, rather than having to resort to discipline.
•Constructive, respectful posts, views, opinions, questions, and replies, related to the topic are welcome. Avoid commenting on members personally, or posting off-topic or political messages.
•While respectful disagreement of a posted view is allowed, don’t call-out posters to prove their points. FlyerTalk has never required discussion standards at the level of a Ph.D. dissertation defense, or a trial court witness cross-examination.
•After a reasonable exchange of views on a point, please yield the floor so that others may bring up different topics, questions or points.
•Especially important in this time of pandemic, when normal life and travel have been upended: please take regular breaks from the thread.
Please stay healthy,
your FT Coronavirus and Travel Moderator Team.
COVID-19: Lounge thread for thoughts, concerns and questions
Mar 22, 2020, 1:30 pm
#1336
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,095
Case fatality rates are not the same thing as fatalities. The fatalities from this have been rising, and they can rise substantially and at varying rates even if case fatality rates drop for a while.
Given what happened with the death count from this in Italy within the last 48 hours, we shouldn’t be surprised by this. Without the security from the extremes of a Hobbesian state of nature — where life is short, nasty and brutish — freedom finds fewer and fewer long-living friends and liberty itself is a casualty of the infection due to spreading infection concerns. Want freedom maximized? Then work on this infection spread getting controlled as fast as possible across and as far and wide as possible in the most coordinated manner possible. The longer this takes to control and the more widespread and deeper the fear of this becomes, the longer it will take for FlyerTalk to get back to being travel talk more than “grounded talk”.
Given what happened with the death count from this in Italy within the last 48 hours, we shouldn’t be surprised by this. Without the security from the extremes of a Hobbesian state of nature — where life is short, nasty and brutish — freedom finds fewer and fewer long-living friends and liberty itself is a casualty of the infection due to spreading infection concerns. Want freedom maximized? Then work on this infection spread getting controlled as fast as possible across and as far and wide as possible in the most coordinated manner possible. The longer this takes to control and the more widespread and deeper the fear of this becomes, the longer it will take for FlyerTalk to get back to being travel talk more than “grounded talk”.
Last edited by GUWonder; Mar 22, 2020 at 1:40 pm
Mar 22, 2020, 1:32 pm
#1337
Senior Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: San Francisco, CA
Programs: UA Plat/2MM [23-yr. 1K, now emeritus] clawing way back to WN-A List; MR LT Titanium; HY Whateverist.
Posts: 12,396
Moderator note
As this is a "lounge" thread, we've tried to moderate its topic relevance with a bit more liberality than other threads in the forum.
But we've started to get well afield of the COVID-19 issues with the current extended discussion of issues of historical family economic adequacy or poverty. These can be addressed fully in the OMNI forum.
Let's return to discussions closer to the many pressing issues of COVID-19 and its effects and likely profiles and challenges. Thanks, Ocn Vw 1K, Co-Moderator.
But we've started to get well afield of the COVID-19 issues with the current extended discussion of issues of historical family economic adequacy or poverty. These can be addressed fully in the OMNI forum.
Let's return to discussions closer to the many pressing issues of COVID-19 and its effects and likely profiles and challenges. Thanks, Ocn Vw 1K, Co-Moderator.
Mar 22, 2020, 1:38 pm
#1338
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: I 35 south bound, finally stopped
Programs: LT Plt, 4mm, *A GLD, burned out medical provider, executing our estate plan
Posts: 1,665
As this is a "lounge" thread, we've tried to moderate its topic relevance with a bit more liberality than other threads in the forum.
But we've started to get well afield of the COVID-19 issues with the current extended discussion of issues of historical family economic adequacy or poverty. These can be addressed fully in the OMNI forum.
Let's return to discussions closer to the many pressing issues of COVID-19 and its effects and likely profiles and challenges. Thanks, Ocn Vw 1K, Co-Moderator.
But we've started to get well afield of the COVID-19 issues with the current extended discussion of issues of historical family economic adequacy or poverty. These can be addressed fully in the OMNI forum.
Let's return to discussions closer to the many pressing issues of COVID-19 and its effects and likely profiles and challenges. Thanks, Ocn Vw 1K, Co-Moderator.
Brilliant thanks. We are booking an 8 day river rafting tip for next may. we have not cancelled our October national park extravaganza in October. Still going to Antarctica in December if the ships are sailing. Some FTers have more resources than others. We are not saving ours for the kids. And they know this.
Mar 22, 2020, 1:41 pm
#1339
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Seat 1A, Juice pretty much everywhere, Mucci des Coins Exotiques
Posts: 34,339
While I'm ok with a 30 day shut down, and find it reasonable to defer to the experts, for whom I have the utmost respect, which shouldn't be taken to mean I'd abandon all independent thought and my right of self-determination. If after 30 days, things aren't improving, it's time to move on. We can survive this carnage.
Last edited by NewbieRunner; Mar 23, 2020 at 1:59 am Reason: Redacted deleted text from quote
Mar 22, 2020, 1:42 pm
#1340
Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Bregenz, Austria
Programs: AA, BAEC, Alaska, Flying Blue, United, IHG, Hilton
Posts: 2,950
Brilliant thanks. We are booking an 8 day river rafting tip for next may. we have not cancelled our October national park extravaganza in October. Still going to Antarctica in December if the ships are sailing. Some FTers have more resources than others. We are not saving ours for the kids. And they know this.
Mar 22, 2020, 1:46 pm
#1342
Join Date: May 2014
Location: BRU
Programs: BA GGL, TK E (*G), ITA exec
Posts: 4,105
Mar 22, 2020, 2:24 pm
#1343
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Germany
Posts: 3,807
Countries that were prepared (Taiwan, South Korea, Singapore) managed it without significant losses (our economic downturn will obviously hit them as well, but it's not their fault).
If proper lessons are learned (just like Asian nations learned from their past super bug crises), we'll manage the next super bug with a flick of a finger. The most important lesson is that one must act as early as possible - the earlier you act, the lesser the cost. There must be facilities for mass testing and a mass production of test kits, and a shortage of basic protection equipment such as masks may never happen again.
Mar 22, 2020, 2:28 pm
#1344
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 17,424
Speaking of worldometer, it current shows a daily increase for the US of 14,550... which isn’t backed by other sites like https://coronavirus.1point3acres.com/en (+4279).
Mar 22, 2020, 2:30 pm
#1345
Suspended
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Bay Area
Programs: DL SM, UA MP.
Posts: 12,729
While the virus situation today looks somewhat encouraging in Europe, it looks somewhat discouraging in NYC. I would seal off the entire NYC metropolitan area, including northern New Jersey, and prohibit all non-essential travel including air travel in or out of that region. This would enable the country to marshal the medical resources to deal with the problem, and not spread it to the rest of the country, where the problem currently seems manageable. Basically, until we get evidence to the contrary, we should treat NYC like Wuhan. The problem, of course, is that in a democracy, our leaders will dither with this strategy and probably wait a costly 5 to 7 days before doing so -- just like they were too slow to cut off Italy travellers. Oh, well -- it's the problem of a free society.
I thought they closed all NY area airports?
Mar 22, 2020, 2:36 pm
#1346
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Pacific Northwest
Programs: UA Gold 1MM, AS 75k, AA Plat, Bonvoyed Gold, Honors Dia, Hyatt Explorer, IHG Plat, ...
Posts: 16,856
Well, none of my grandparents are still alive, but I just asked my 72-year-old mother. Here is her response:
"My parents worked and fought very hard for the lifestyle we have now, and we should enjoy it while we still can. If we don't, they fought for nothing. I probably don't have very many useful years of my life left now, and I don't want to spend them living like a [expletive deleted] hermit."
"My parents worked and fought very hard for the lifestyle we have now, and we should enjoy it while we still can. If we don't, they fought for nothing. I probably don't have very many useful years of my life left now, and I don't want to spend them living like a [expletive deleted] hermit."
She doesn’t use expletives. Usually. But she had some choice words for those who think they are invincible, above the rules, can’t live without bars for a while.
She als had choice words for the patient who put my sister and her colleagues into quarantine and shut down a primary care clinic for two weeks. Came in to be seen for back pain. Neglected to mention cough and shortness of breath or the fact that she just returned from skiing in northern Italy. (so yeah, this isn’t all about strangers and news stories for me anymore)
She also had choice words for the neighbors who went on vacation to a “tropical paradise” about a week or so ago and are now stuck.
Choice words such as idiotic, selfish, irresponsible.
Mar 22, 2020, 2:38 pm
#1347
Suspended
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 16,871
Emma, a 12-year-old girl, is "fighting for her life" in an Atlanta hospital after testing positive for the coronavirus, according to her cousin.
Justin Anthony told CNN that Emma was diagnosed with pneumonia on March 15 and tested positive for coronavirus on Friday night. As of Saturday, she was on a ventilator and is currently in stable condition, Anthony said.
Emma had no pre-existing conditions. She has not traveled recently and it's unknown how she contracted the virus, according to Anthony
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/22/us/ge...zed/index.html
Justin Anthony told CNN that Emma was diagnosed with pneumonia on March 15 and tested positive for coronavirus on Friday night. As of Saturday, she was on a ventilator and is currently in stable condition, Anthony said.
Emma had no pre-existing conditions. She has not traveled recently and it's unknown how she contracted the virus, according to Anthony
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/22/us/ge...zed/index.html
Mar 22, 2020, 2:38 pm
#1348
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Pacific Northwest
Programs: UA Gold 1MM, AS 75k, AA Plat, Bonvoyed Gold, Honors Dia, Hyatt Explorer, IHG Plat, ...
Posts: 16,856
Looks like Worldmonto fixed the incorrect data. The totals are now in the same ballpark as the other site. One thing to note is that the daily numbers are based on different time zones. Worldmondo uses midnight GMT to start over.
Last edited by notquiteaff; Mar 22, 2020 at 2:51 pm
Mar 22, 2020, 3:40 pm
#1349
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 2,280
Emma, a 12-year-old girl, is "fighting for her life" in an Atlanta hospital after testing positive for the coronavirus, according to her cousin.
Justin Anthony told CNN that Emma was diagnosed with pneumonia on March 15 and tested positive for coronavirus on Friday night. As of Saturday, she was on a ventilator and is currently in stable condition, Anthony said.
Emma had no pre-existing conditions. She has not traveled recently and it's unknown how she contracted the virus, according to Anthony
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/22/us/ge...zed/index.html
Justin Anthony told CNN that Emma was diagnosed with pneumonia on March 15 and tested positive for coronavirus on Friday night. As of Saturday, she was on a ventilator and is currently in stable condition, Anthony said.
Emma had no pre-existing conditions. She has not traveled recently and it's unknown how she contracted the virus, according to Anthony
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/22/us/ge...zed/index.html
Mar 22, 2020, 3:52 pm
#1350
Join Date: May 2010
Location: AVP & PEK
Programs: UA 1K 1.9MM
Posts: 6,357
While a sad story, I'm sure we could find other cases of healthy people/children with no pre-existing conditions becoming seriously ill from other causes as well. Also issue with the CNN story: being on a ventilator and stable condition are not compatible. If you are requiring a machine to acutely intervene to support you, that is NOT stable.
I tend to agree. And too little information to understand exactly what this is all about.
12-year old girl on ventilator with pneumonia who tested positive, with no pre-existing condition and no know contact....all according to a cousin.
Makes for a GREAT headline though, so hey, why NOT publish it, right?
