TTT103

I'm in a bit of a predicament. I am at 3/24, have three Chase personal cards and two Chase business cards. I would like to jump on the 100K CSP SUB, but have a feeling that if I apply, my application will go pending, and I will have to call to reallocate credit limits. That would place eyes on my accounts, and one of my current cards I MS heavily. I don't want to swat the hornet's nest and risk having all of my cards shut down. Any thoughts? I certainly can go after a SUB from another bank.

RedElmo

Thoughts? Ya. I want to MS. I like to know how you’re doing that?

WasKnown

Chase is said to be adding an option to reallocate CLs on the site for new applications soon. You could wait and hit the SUB with another player in the meantime. However, I doubt shifting CL would expose your MS unless you’re doing something crazy that is increasing your bust out risk.

No one is going to talk about the best MS strategies on a public forum. The current best method for couch MS is a bit scammy though. So far it’s working out great for them. Personally, I don’t trust the person behind this as far as I can throw him (and I probably couldn’t even pick that guy up). I don’t think most people should consider MS unless they meet all of this criteria:

1) low income (IRS audit risk)
2) ability to float large sums of $ (which conflicts with 1)
3) access to many (2+) additional players
4) no concern for a long-term relationship with any of these banks

TTT103

Thank you for the advice, as well as the heads-up on the new feature coming regarding self-allocation of credit limits upon application with Chase. I'm not doing anything too crazy, but the dollar amounts are high (maxing credit limit monthly). Since I have two application slots open (3/24), I may go for the 80K Citi Premier.

Thanks, again.

Dr Jabadski

Agreed.

I’d add 5) have a lot of time on your hands and 6) enjoy doing things many other people consider sleazy (like covering the words “gift card” with your finger when displaying a debit card) and 7) enjoy hitting your head against a wall and 8) enjoy having a business tell you to get lost.

Unfortunately MS low hanging fruit (Dollar Coins, Vanilla Reload, Bluebird, Serve, REDcard, etc) disappeared several years ago.

sciconf

So what MS is available now?

WasKnown

Yup. The MS strategy I'm currently aware of from Telegram (where people are hitting $25K spending caps from the couch in 1 hour) seems very risky to me. I can't deny that it is currently very lucrative for the people involved. In fact, I think it would be impossible for the group pushing this most actively to go negative. However, I am convinced that the risk for anyone fresh getting into this is not worth it... not even from a tax perspective but from the perspective of just losing the money you're floating. Buying groups are one thing but some of the current MS strategies are just... weird lol.

I also agree it takes a lot of time. At a certain point, I question why these people choose to spend so much time mastering MS and learning the intricacies of it rather than getting normal full-time jobs.

Dr Jabadski

The MS that involves 1 through 8 above, labor intensive and (to many people) quite risky. It’s the American way, try to get paid for doing next to nothing.

I gave up on the little MS I was doing when the low hanging fruit went away and when all MS roads led to the customer service desk at Walmart. I’d sooner gouge my eyeballs out with a hot fire poker than voluntarily stand in line and deal with Walmart customer service, too much like Spirit Airlines.

serpens

Is buying a VGC from a 5x category store to use for purchases that would be 1.5x (and would have been made anyway) considered MS?
I like getting something for nothing, but it seems like I'm getting not enough something for too much nothing.

strickerj

I could see it argued either way, but I'd say MS is spending on cash equivalents for the points and converting them back to cash (literally "manufacturing spending" that you didn't really make on purchases). Gaming the system so you earn extra points on spending you were going to make anyway isn't quite the same level, IMHO. I doubt Chase would even notice as long as you're not spending a ridiculous amount on gift cards. (Actually I'm not even sure they can tell what you actually purchased, just where you spent the money.)

Dr Jabadski

“It depends on what the meaning of the word ‘is’ is.”

Yes, it is MS. But as with everything, there are degrees of sleaziness and this example, if not done many times, is the mildest form of MS. Do it 50 times to pay for $25,000 of services would be extreme MS. And strickerj is correct “… MS is spending on cash equivalents for the points and converting them back to cash …” Huge difference between your example, which some call” category shift”, and buying VGC at 5x to use to buy a money order (while covering the words “gift card” with your finger) to deposit into your own bank account. Of course, we all do. But again there are degrees. Taking a mint from a desktop bowl is fine, taking the entire bowl is not fine.

Congratulations, you now understand the current MS environment.

serpens

In my case, it's primarily to max out the $12,000 of 5x groceries on a new FU card that is in excess to what I would spend on groceries. Oh, there were also a few specific gift cards that didn't have the activation fee. The VGC was a purchase of last resort to use the available category bonus, and all of it went to purchases that I would otherwise have made. Early on, I made a guess at how much the excess would be and I've tried to distribute that amount over the year.
Thanks, I hadn't heard that term before. Exactly what I was doing.
But I wasn't even talking about my "MS-lite" spending; I was talking about juggling the various cards and especially the temporary bonus offers. I need to be sure to use the Amex Hilton card once a month for dining, the Hyatt card had the Amazon promotion, the IHG Select card (which I would otherwise never use; it's only to get the 10% points rebate) had some offer, and so on. I'm getting too old.

WasKnown

No but some issuers do not like it even if you purchase a closed loop gift card with them.

Per the other comment, manufactured spend is creating new spend that wouldn’t have existed otherwise. In your case, you are just shifting existing spend from one category to another. I don’t manufacture spend but I do stuff like this (buying small denominations of closed loop GCs at high multipliers) all the time. As long as you are reasonable about it and mix in legitimate purchases with those transactions, I don’t think it is a problem.

You can get A LOT of something for nothing. There are people that MS as a full time job. They’re not MSing for extra vacation points. They MS… as a primary source of income.

But is it worth it? I don’t think some of these people would appreciate me posting more specifics but the leading mass MS method is either

1) funneling funds to unsavory places
2) resulting in legitimate customers being scammed

I’m not privy to exactly what is happening on the back end but I know enough to be suspicious.

The legal liability for the individual is likely 0. However, I continue to believe there is at least a high IRS audit risk for people with incomes that already increase their risk of audit (perhaps income in excess of $1m/yr?). I also believe there are large ethical questions with engaging in this activity. Ultimately, people are going to do what is best for them.

For me (and likely most people on these forums), the trade-off is not worthwhile.

Just my 2 cents. I’m sure at least a few people here are familiar with what I’m referring to. No hate for anyone that chooses to go down this path but it’s just not for me.

bgriff

Back to the original topic of the thread, my data point:

Wednesday 8/18: Converted CSR to Freedom Unlimited by phone
Sunday 8/22: Applied for CSP online using a friend's referral link, application pending
Monday 8/23: Got through to reconsideration desk (seems they are closed on Sundays), agent asked me to reconfirm income information with the exact same questions as on the application, went on hold for a while, and came back saying she had to send to another department, which was a bit concerning. But new card showed up on my Chase account a few hours later, so seems like everything is in order.

I was surprised that Chase gave me "new" credit for the CSP, rather than reallocating some of the high credit line on the former CSR account (as they had done without my intervention the last time I opened a new Chase card, in December), but my income is up slightly since then so I guess they decided I was due a bit more spending room.

Like someone else who posted, I don't see a tracker for the $4k spend yet, but hopefully that appears soon.

xooz

Sent referral to my wife. When she initiated signup online, it said she would be denied and they would send a letter later. Chase says her credit score is 824, so will be interesting to see what the rationale is. She is an authorized user on my card but I thought that was not an issue.

Guess we shall see..