The Ultimate Baggage Lost / Delayed / Stolen / Damaged Thread
Mar 30, 2010, 9:18 pm
#91
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I do have one more question. I saw on http://www.montrealconvention.org/ that according to Article 31, I should have made a written complaint to the airline. However, I didn't do this...will the Passenger Property Questionnaire count as a complaint?
Apr 12, 2010, 10:27 pm
#92
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There is now some seemingly contradictory information in this thread in relation to the eligibility of "Fragile" items being covered under the Montreal Convention.
Post #1 of this thread indicates they may not be eligible while post #81 indicates that Airlines cannot exclude any item for international operations.
Can this be clarified?
Post #1 of this thread indicates they may not be eligible while post #81 indicates that Airlines cannot exclude any item for international operations.
Can this be clarified?
I think I am not the only one who gets hit by Lost, delayed , damaged bags etc. etc.
...
There is since 2004 the Montreal Convention 06(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreal_Convention) in place which improves passenger rights and makes the max. compensation amount a fixum of 1000 XDR .
...
NON-eliable Items
Jewels, Gold , Silver etc.
Electronic articles ( computers , pdas, cameras, phones )
sport items ( golf bags etc.) ,
Credit Cards, Passports etc.
Here is a copy of LHs policy, i am sure that other carriers have similar policies.
* Fragile objects, meaning objects whose main element is by nature fragile, and sensitive objects in inappropriate packaging
* Perishable goods, if their perishable nature caused the damage. Liability is also excluded if due to delayed baggage delivery food must be destroyed for hygienic reasons or has gone bad when it arrives
* Cash, cheques, jewellery, precious metal, antiques
* Documents, such as business papers, passports, ID cards, data carriers such as floppy disks, CDs, DVDs, USB sticks, etc.
* In the case of total loss of patterns, data carriers and merchandise, liability is based only on the material and goods value. The resale value or loss of business deals are excluded from liability
* Laptops and PCs are entirely excluded from liability
http://www.lufthansa.com/online/port...nodeid=1769658...
...
There is since 2004 the Montreal Convention 06(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreal_Convention) in place which improves passenger rights and makes the max. compensation amount a fixum of 1000 XDR .
...
NON-eliable Items
Jewels, Gold , Silver etc.
Electronic articles ( computers , pdas, cameras, phones )
sport items ( golf bags etc.) ,
Credit Cards, Passports etc.
Here is a copy of LHs policy, i am sure that other carriers have similar policies.
* Fragile objects, meaning objects whose main element is by nature fragile, and sensitive objects in inappropriate packaging
* Perishable goods, if their perishable nature caused the damage. Liability is also excluded if due to delayed baggage delivery food must be destroyed for hygienic reasons or has gone bad when it arrives
* Cash, cheques, jewellery, precious metal, antiques
* Documents, such as business papers, passports, ID cards, data carriers such as floppy disks, CDs, DVDs, USB sticks, etc.
* In the case of total loss of patterns, data carriers and merchandise, liability is based only on the material and goods value. The resale value or loss of business deals are excluded from liability
* Laptops and PCs are entirely excluded from liability
http://www.lufthansa.com/online/port...nodeid=1769658...
From http://AirConsumer.DOT.gov/rules/webnotice_04012009.pdf
"We have become aware of tariff provisions filed by several carriers that attempt, with respect to checked baggage, to exclude certain items, generally high-cost or fragile items such as electronics, cameras, jewelry or antiques, from liability for damage, delay, loss or theft. A typical provision found in carrier tariffs and disclosed on carrier websites states that the carrier does not assume liability for loss, damage, or delay of "certain specific items, including: . . . antiques, documents, electronic equipment, film, jewelry, keys, manuscripts, medication, money, paintings, photographs . . . ."
Such exclusions, while not prohibited in domestic contracts of carriage, are in contravention of Article 17 of the Montreal Convention (Convention), as revised on May 28, 1999. Article 17 provides that carriers are liable for damaged or lost baggage if the destruction, loss or damage” occurred while the checked baggage was within the custody of the carrier, except to the extent that the damage "resulted from the inherent defect, quality or vice of the baggage." Article 19 provides that a carrier is liable for damage caused by delay in the carriage of baggage, except to the extent that it proves that it took all reasonable measures to prevent the damage or that it was impossible to take such measures. Although carriers may wish to have tariff terms that prohibit passengers from including certain items in checked baggage, once a carrier accepts checked baggage, whatever is contained in the checked baggage is protected, subject to the terms of the Convention, up to the limit of 1000 SDRs (Convention, Article 22, para.2.). Carriers should review their filed tariffs on this matter and modify their tariffs and their baggage claim policies, if necessary, to conform to the terms of the Convention. In addition, carriers should ensure that their websites do not contain improper information regarding baggage liability exclusions applicable to international service."
Such exclusions, while not prohibited in domestic contracts of carriage, are in contravention of Article 17 of the Montreal Convention (Convention), as revised on May 28, 1999. Article 17 provides that carriers are liable for damaged or lost baggage if the destruction, loss or damage” occurred while the checked baggage was within the custody of the carrier, except to the extent that the damage "resulted from the inherent defect, quality or vice of the baggage." Article 19 provides that a carrier is liable for damage caused by delay in the carriage of baggage, except to the extent that it proves that it took all reasonable measures to prevent the damage or that it was impossible to take such measures. Although carriers may wish to have tariff terms that prohibit passengers from including certain items in checked baggage, once a carrier accepts checked baggage, whatever is contained in the checked baggage is protected, subject to the terms of the Convention, up to the limit of 1000 SDRs (Convention, Article 22, para.2.). Carriers should review their filed tariffs on this matter and modify their tariffs and their baggage claim policies, if necessary, to conform to the terms of the Convention. In addition, carriers should ensure that their websites do not contain improper information regarding baggage liability exclusions applicable to international service."
Apr 13, 2010, 12:01 pm
#93
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Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Worldwide
Posts: 12,949
There is now some seemingly contradictory information in this thread in relation to the eligibility of "Fragile" items being covered under the Montreal Convention.
Post #1 of this thread indicates they may not be eligible while post #81 indicates that Airlines cannot exclude any item for international operations.
Can this be clarified?
Post #1 of this thread indicates they may not be eligible while post #81 indicates that Airlines cannot exclude any item for international operations.
Can this be clarified?
May 18, 2010, 3:37 am
#94
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: HKG, BOS
Programs: CX SL, AB Gold, AF/KL FB Silver, HU/HX Silver, SPG Gold
Posts: 2,596
I flew back on Jetstar back to Singapore , and realised that I had left my laptop on the aircraft when we were waiting to collect our luggage. I went to the office to enquire on how to claim back the laptop, and the office personnel told me that the aircraft had been locked up since it was their last flight. I was then told to make a report, and I was assured that they would inform the duty manager in charge of the first flight the next morning to have it checked and reported if they do find it.
I called them twice the next morning around 9 and 10am respectively, and was told that the duty manager hasn't called the lost and found office to update on the laptop, and since the flight has already taken off around 6plus am, I would need to give them more time for any status updates. It was after lunch when the office called me back to inform me that the duty manager has just called and informed that they could not find the laptop.
Would I have any claims against the carrier using any laws of bailment or under the Warsaw Convention. I know that the WC covers liability on carrier for checked in and for hand carry baggage. And further liability under WC is strict liability (as in I need not proof fault)...does this mean that I would be successful in my claim?
I called them twice the next morning around 9 and 10am respectively, and was told that the duty manager hasn't called the lost and found office to update on the laptop, and since the flight has already taken off around 6plus am, I would need to give them more time for any status updates. It was after lunch when the office called me back to inform me that the duty manager has just called and informed that they could not find the laptop.
Would I have any claims against the carrier using any laws of bailment or under the Warsaw Convention. I know that the WC covers liability on carrier for checked in and for hand carry baggage. And further liability under WC is strict liability (as in I need not proof fault)...does this mean that I would be successful in my claim?
In addition, had a baggage delay incident (1 piece arrived 1 night late and 2 pieces arrived 2 nights late) with Aeroflot arriving at CDG as well (as part of HKG-SVO-CDG). What should I expect as reasonable compensation. The Air France-KLM agents at CDG (SU's ground handling agent) just handed out SkyTeam emergency kits with no immediate compensation.
Any advice?
Sep 3, 2010, 7:44 pm
#95
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 2
Delayed/Lost baggage on American Airlines/Qatar Airways
Hi,
I flew from San Francisco to Bombay (Mumbai) via New York and Doha on the 1st of September and Landed in Bombay on the 3rd of September.
My flights were as follows:
American Airlines: AA178 from SFO to New York (JFK) on September 1st at 1.40 pm
Qatar Airways: QR84 from NY to Doha
Qatar Airways: QR200 from Doha to Bombay. on September 3rd at 3 am
My bags were checked in at SFO with American Airlines, almost 2 and a half hours before departure. The agent there said that the bags would arrive in Bombay and gave me a tag with 2 separate codes for each of my baggage with the airport codes JFK, DOH, BOM.
When I landed in Bombay, only one of the bags had reached. I immediately filed a PIR with the Qatar Airways staff at the Mishandled/Lost baggage counter and got a copy of the PIR.
The guy at the counter said that I could get more information on the missing baggage by calling a number he gave me at around 9 am. Despite repeated calls, no one took the call till around 9.30am.
I was then given a file reference code(after finding out that there was such a thing as world tracer and asking for a reference code). The person on call told me that the information would be updated only after 24 hours. Apart from that the number that she gave me was a 13 digit character code and not a 10 character code as the site specifies.
It has now been more than 24 hours and the file is still not updated and gives the error 'The system cannot locate a valid file for your entry. Please check your entry and try again, or contact your airline for more information'.
I tried different 10 character combinations with the 5 alphabets first and the 5 numerals later.
I even emailed customer support and hope to get a reply soon, but i really don't have much hope that that will happen.
Needless to say, I am very upset as my bags contained most of my office clothes from my trip, including 2 very expensive suits and articles that have a high sentimental value. I would like to know how I can find out where my bags are and what process i should go through to escalate this matter.
Thanks in anticipation of your help.
Franz
I flew from San Francisco to Bombay (Mumbai) via New York and Doha on the 1st of September and Landed in Bombay on the 3rd of September.
My flights were as follows:
American Airlines: AA178 from SFO to New York (JFK) on September 1st at 1.40 pm
Qatar Airways: QR84 from NY to Doha
Qatar Airways: QR200 from Doha to Bombay. on September 3rd at 3 am
My bags were checked in at SFO with American Airlines, almost 2 and a half hours before departure. The agent there said that the bags would arrive in Bombay and gave me a tag with 2 separate codes for each of my baggage with the airport codes JFK, DOH, BOM.
When I landed in Bombay, only one of the bags had reached. I immediately filed a PIR with the Qatar Airways staff at the Mishandled/Lost baggage counter and got a copy of the PIR.
The guy at the counter said that I could get more information on the missing baggage by calling a number he gave me at around 9 am. Despite repeated calls, no one took the call till around 9.30am.
I was then given a file reference code(after finding out that there was such a thing as world tracer and asking for a reference code). The person on call told me that the information would be updated only after 24 hours. Apart from that the number that she gave me was a 13 digit character code and not a 10 character code as the site specifies.
It has now been more than 24 hours and the file is still not updated and gives the error 'The system cannot locate a valid file for your entry. Please check your entry and try again, or contact your airline for more information'.
I tried different 10 character combinations with the 5 alphabets first and the 5 numerals later.
I even emailed customer support and hope to get a reply soon, but i really don't have much hope that that will happen.
Needless to say, I am very upset as my bags contained most of my office clothes from my trip, including 2 very expensive suits and articles that have a high sentimental value. I would like to know how I can find out where my bags are and what process i should go through to escalate this matter.
Thanks in anticipation of your help.
Franz
Dec 30, 2010, 7:16 am
#96
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 514
Anyone can help me identifying where to claim?
Was booked on BA HAM-LHR-SYD but was rebooked last minute. on LH for the HAM-LHR leg. From LHR on normal routing with BA.
The bags have a LH tag.
Where to claim my expenses? LH or BA?
SYD airport said BA which I found strange.
Was booked on BA HAM-LHR-SYD but was rebooked last minute. on LH for the HAM-LHR leg. From LHR on normal routing with BA.
The bags have a LH tag.
Where to claim my expenses? LH or BA?
SYD airport said BA which I found strange.
Dec 30, 2010, 7:28 am
#97
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: BOM-SIN-EWR
Programs: UA*G (1K again), Sixt Plat, *was*: SQ QPP01 & SK EBS/EBG, LH SEN, AA EXP, 9wPlat
Posts: 8,606
Jan 11, 2011, 6:29 am
#98
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DTW, TXL
Programs: Delta SkyMiles, American, HHonors Gold
Posts: 33
My wife and 4 year old flew DTW to TXL yesterday expecting to be on all Delta flights. Somehow she ended up on Air France on the JFK to TXL segment, even though it had the correct flight number (DL78), apparently due to an aircraft switch. On arrival, no luggage, probably due to a last minute switch of aircraft at DTW (DL2114) due to mechanical issues that delayed the first segment by over an hour and the fact that they could not get all the baggage into the substitute aircraft.
Now she is in Germany with no luggage and no car seat to transport our four year old in. Can she buy a car seat and get reimbursed for it? They are quite expensive in Germany and we don't want to with to get stuck with the bill. What are her reimbursement limits on clothing and hygiene products? Who do we make the claim to?
Now she is in Germany with no luggage and no car seat to transport our four year old in. Can she buy a car seat and get reimbursed for it? They are quite expensive in Germany and we don't want to with to get stuck with the bill. What are her reimbursement limits on clothing and hygiene products? Who do we make the claim to?
Jan 11, 2011, 6:37 am
#99
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: BOM-SIN-EWR
Programs: UA*G (1K again), Sixt Plat, *was*: SQ QPP01 & SK EBS/EBG, LH SEN, AA EXP, 9wPlat
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Now she is in Germany with no luggage and no car seat to transport our four year old in. Can she buy a car seat and get reimbursed for it? They are quite expensive in Germany and we don't want to with to get stuck with the bill. What are her reimbursement limits on clothing and hygiene products? Who do we make the claim to?
I would also list the fact that the car seat is lost/undelivered and that you require a replacement for the safety of your child.
However, if your wife is renting a car, these are readily available from the car rental agencies, at a daily rental rate.
Jan 11, 2011, 9:19 am
#100
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DTW, TXL
Programs: Delta SkyMiles, American, HHonors Gold
Posts: 33
Don't know about AF procedure, but standard claim procedure is to t make a claim in writing to the last carrier, stipulating the loss of luggage, holding the carrier fully responsible for *all* the contents of the luggage (and the suitcases) as well as any possible loss/damage to the same, including the fact that they would be responsible to reimburse you for the expenses of buying clothing (which normally are reimbursed, depending on the claims division of the airline)
I would also list the fact that the car seat is lost/undelivered and that you require a replacement for the safety of your child.
However, if your wife is renting a car, these are readily available from the car rental agencies, at a daily rental rate.
I would also list the fact that the car seat is lost/undelivered and that you require a replacement for the safety of your child.
However, if your wife is renting a car, these are readily available from the car rental agencies, at a daily rental rate.
Jan 11, 2011, 6:58 pm
#101
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DTW, TXL
Programs: Delta SkyMiles, American, HHonors Gold
Posts: 33
We seem to have a Delta claim number (TXL DL xxxxx). Wife called DL this evening, was told by the rep at the claim number that the rep could only authorize a toothbrush, not car seat. Rep claimed all luggage was on a BA flight but had no other info. DL website still says, "We're sorry. We have no updates on this bag and are still trying to locate it. Please check back again." Car seat will have been missing for over 24 hours tomorrow morning. It cost us about $160, but the equivalent seat in Germany seems to be almost 200 Euros.
Wife is scared of being stuck with car seat expense after DL agent's intimidating remarks. What can I quote to agent to prove that DL must pay for delayed car seat?
Wife is scared of being stuck with car seat expense after DL agent's intimidating remarks. What can I quote to agent to prove that DL must pay for delayed car seat?
Jan 12, 2011, 4:20 am
#102
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: BOM-SIN-EWR
Programs: UA*G (1K again), Sixt Plat, *was*: SQ QPP01 & SK EBS/EBG, LH SEN, AA EXP, 9wPlat
Posts: 8,606
We seem to have a Delta claim number (TXL DL xxxxx). Wife called DL this evening, was told by the rep at the claim number that the rep could only authorize a toothbrush, not car seat. Rep claimed all luggage was on a BA flight but had no other info. DL website still says, "We're sorry. We have no updates on this bag and are still trying to locate it. Please check back again." Car seat will have been missing for over 24 hours tomorrow morning. It cost us about $160, but the equivalent seat in Germany seems to be almost 200 Euros.
Wife is scared of being stuck with car seat expense after DL agent's intimidating remarks. What can I quote to agent to prove that DL must pay for delayed car seat?
Wife is scared of being stuck with car seat expense after DL agent's intimidating remarks. What can I quote to agent to prove that DL must pay for delayed car seat?
Get that letter served on the carrier - you only have 3 days to do this.
Jan 12, 2011, 5:56 am
#103
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: DTW, TXL
Programs: Delta SkyMiles, American, HHonors Gold
Posts: 33
Edit: I think You were referring to the claim letter you mentioned in your previous post. I guess I should rephrase my question. Why is there a limit of three days? Does this letter need to be hand delivered or sent certified mail? So far the airline has told me a I have to wait until my wife returns to the USA to file a claim. She comes back to the USA the first week in February.
She bought a car seat today and, of course, got one that is too small, but now we are stuck with it because the dealer won't give her a refund. I was just informed by DL that 2 of our pieces of luggage are at Heathrow and one, most likely the car seat, is still at JFK.
Last edited by pshooper; Jan 12, 2011 at 12:15 pm
Jan 23, 2011, 6:24 pm
#104
Moderator: Asiana & Qantas Frequent Flyer
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Posts: 14,375
I was contemplating to post this is a new thread as its not about compensation but I will try here first.
We flew HAJ-ZRH-LHR-HKG-PVG on two tickets, the first two flights operated by LX, then NZ then FM.
Upon arrival at PVG two of our bags were missing. It became very clear that FM at PVG is not really helping to locate the missing bags. So we want to increase the chances of getting our bags by doing some investigation on our own.
NZ at PVG for example was saying that I shouldn't bother with FM and that they are getting their own people at HKG and LHR involved. They also recommended to contact LX but I don't have a contact yet.
Here is my question:
The bag tag has a barcode, were will this barcode be scanned? In other words, should NZ know that the bag was loaded into the aircraft at LHR? Or should ZRH airport know that the bag was scanned after arriving from HAJ? We would like to establish were the bags were last seen but I don't know the process of baggage scanning.
We flew HAJ-ZRH-LHR-HKG-PVG on two tickets, the first two flights operated by LX, then NZ then FM.
Upon arrival at PVG two of our bags were missing. It became very clear that FM at PVG is not really helping to locate the missing bags. So we want to increase the chances of getting our bags by doing some investigation on our own.
NZ at PVG for example was saying that I shouldn't bother with FM and that they are getting their own people at HKG and LHR involved. They also recommended to contact LX but I don't have a contact yet.
Here is my question:
The bag tag has a barcode, were will this barcode be scanned? In other words, should NZ know that the bag was loaded into the aircraft at LHR? Or should ZRH airport know that the bag was scanned after arriving from HAJ? We would like to establish were the bags were last seen but I don't know the process of baggage scanning.
Jan 25, 2011, 10:12 am
#105
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Stratford, Canada
Posts: 2
Delayed Baggage Claim
I am investigating how to file a small claims action against KLM for a week long delay in delivering our baggage while in Europe. Do I file it here in Canada or do I have to file it in Holland. My husband has an EEC passport. I am so new at this that I may not have posted appropriately, but I am so frustrated by the lack of communication I have had with KLM. Thanks in advance.