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FlyerTalk Forums (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/index.php)
-   Travel Tools (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travel-tools-701/)
-   -   KVS Availability Tool (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travel-tools/319244-kvs-availability-tool.html)

Keter Nov 15, 2009 12:45 pm
Well, one of the problems is that you cannot know what the GI for the specific fare is from KVS fare display and MPM table is not of any help here. Except for this and exact base fare in a country specific currency routing rules are useless for an IATA (or any other MPM) fare. But I am still concerned with fare rules. It looks like DotRes rules are OK [not a full text rule though], while TVN shows something totally unrelated. Any chance to tie fare rules with a specific fare in KVS?

By the way, BKK-MOW, for example, has 12 IATA fares (shown in KVS), 4 fares to each class of service with same fare basis, so it looks like the restriction not to publish same fare bases does not apply to the industry fares.

Note: fare/ routing rules also do not seem to be available for an IATA fare at all in case the airline chooses to change the first letter of the fare basis to primary booking code [this is done by an airline's request to Sabre]. Example is MOW-DEL/KE/SIF where 'Y' is forced to be replaced by 'S' by KE.

KVS Nov 15, 2009 1:17 pm
Originally Posted by Keter (Post 12822736)
Well, one of the problems is that you cannot know what the GI for the specific fare is from KVS fare display and MPM table is not of any help here.
To get the GI for a specific fare, you need to refer to the Routing Rules display (as long as the fare is correctly filed with a unique Fare Basis code):

[KVS Availability Tool 5.1.4/Diamond - Routing Rules: DEL-MOW/YY/CIF/5834 USD]
Code:
DELMOW-YY 15NOV09      *RULE DISPLAY*    TARIFF 0004 RULE ESAS
* ADD APPLICABLE TAX * FED INSP FEES *                         
  -FARE BASIS        INR      NUC                PTC  FT  GI
CIF            R    271975  5594.12              ADT  NL  EH
CIF            R    271975  5594.12              CNN  NL  EH
CIF            R    271975  5594.12              UNN  NL  EH
CIF/IN90        R    27200    559.40              INF  NL  EH
CIF            R    271975  5594.12              INS  NL  EH
BOOKING CODES ENTER>S E SPECIFIC AIRLINE FARES DISPLAY.       
INDUSTRY FARE TYPE -  BU - BUSINESS CLASS UNRESTRICTED         
MPM - EH  5452 VIA EASTERN HEMISPHERE
---------------------------------------------------------------

  MPM CONSULT ROUTINGS TARIFF
Originally Posted by Keter (Post 12822736)
Except for this and exact base fare in a country specific currency routing rules are useless for an IATA (or any other MPM) fare.
For MPM-based fares, you get the GI and the MPM (as shown above) -- what else could it possibly display for a non-routing-based fare? :)

Originally Posted by Keter (Post 12822736)
But I am still concerned with fare rules. It looks like DotRes rules are OK [not a full text rule though], while TVN shows something totally unrelated. Any chance to tie fare rules with a specific fare in KVS?
This is not something that can be done -- the underlying systems cannot properly function without a unique Fare Basis code for each separate fare.

Originally Posted by Keter (Post 12822736)
By the way, BKK-MOW, for example, has 12 IATA fares (shown in KVS), 4 fares to each class of service with same fare basis, so it looks like the restriction not to publish same fare bases does not apply to the industry fares.
They can certainly do it, but it does cause issues, which you are experiencing here.

Originally Posted by Keter (Post 12822736)
Note: fare/ routing rules also do not seem to be available for an IATA fare at all in case the airline chooses to change the first letter of the fare basis to primary booking code [this is done by an airline's request to Sabre]. Example is MOW-DEL/KE/SIF where 'Y' is forced to be replaced by 'S' by KE.
Yes, in which case you would need to retrieve Fare Rules using the actual Fare Basis Code:

[KVS Availability Tool 5.1.4/Diamond - TVN: MOW-DEL/YY/YIF/*]
Code:
ECONOMY PROMOTIONAL

[RULE APPLICATION AND OTHER CONDITIONS]
NOTE - THE FOLLOWING TEXT IS INFORMATIONAL AND NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING.
SEAMAN FARE - GREECE  -  GOVERNMENT ORDERS  - TO/FROM GREECE
APPLICATION CLASS OF SERVICE THESE FARES APPLY FOR ECONOMY CLASS SERVICE.
TYPES OF TRANSPORTATION THIS RULE GOVERNS ONE-WAY AND ROUND-TRIP
FARES. FARES GOVERNED BY THIS RULE CAN BE USED TO CREATE ONE-WAY/ROUND-TRIP
JOURNEYS. OTHER CONDITIONS FARES ONLY APPLY IF PURCHASED BEFORE
DEPARTURE. EXCEPTION - MAY BE USED FOR ENROUTE UPGRADING FROM A LOWER
FARE PROVIDED ALL CONDITIONS OF THESE FARES ARE MET. PASSENGER EXPENSES
NOT PERMITTED. - FOR SECTORS NOT FLOWN ON A PARTICIPATING CARRIER
ASSESS FULL APPLICABLE FARE WITHOUT THE REDUCTION.

[ELIGIBILITY]
NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. SEAMAN OF THE GREEK MERECHANT
MARINE AND ACCOMPANYING SPOUSE / SEAMAN OF GREEK NATIONALITY
AND ACCOMPANYING SPOUSE. THE SEAMAN CONCERNED MUST EITHER BE TRAVELLING
TO REPORT FOR DUTY ON A SHIP OR BE REPATRIATED FROM THEIR SHIP. -
DOCUMENTATION - THE SHIPPING COMPANY OR ITS AGENT MUST SUBMIT A WRITTEN
STATEMENT CERTIFYING THAT THE SEAMAN IS TRAVELLING TO MAN A SHIP
OR IS BEING REPATRIATED. ATTACH STATEMENT TO AUDIT COUPON OF TICKET.

[DAY/TIME]
NO DAY/TIME TRAVEL RESTRICTIONS APPLY.

[SEASONALITY]
NO SEASONAL TRAVEL RESTRICTIONS APPLY.

[FLIGHT APPLICATION]
THE FARE COMPONENT MUST BE ON ONE OR MORE OF THE FOLLOWING ANY BA FLIGHT
ANY CX FLIGHT ANY CI FLIGHT ANY EK FLIGHT ANY KE FLIGHT ANY KM FLIGHT
ANY LG FLIGHT ANY LO FLIGHT ANY NE FLIGHT ANY PR FLIGHT ANY RO FLIGHT
ANY SQ FLIGHT ANY TP FLIGHT. NOTE - TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR
AUTOPRICING. AND CORRESPONDING NATIONAL CARRIERS OF THE COUNTRIES SERVED
BY OA.

[ADVANCE RESERVATIONS/TICKETING]
NO ADVANCE RESERVATIONS/TICKETING REQUIREMENTS APPLY.

[MINIMUM STAY]
NO MINIMUM STAY REQUIREMENTS APPLY.

[MAXIMUM STAY]
TRAVEL FROM LAST STOPOVER MUST COMMENCE NO LATER THAN 12 MONTHS AFTER
DEPARTURE FROM FARE ORIGIN.

[STOPOVERS]
STOPOVERS ARE NOT PERMITTED AT INTERMEDIATE POINTS.

[TRANSFERS]
UNLIMITED TRANSFERS PERMITTED. - SURFACE AT FARE BREAK AND EMBEDDED SECTORS
PERMITTED EXCEPT FOR PRICING UNITS WITHIN/BETWEEN US AND CANADA
- INCLUDING PR/USV1 - SURFACE AT FARE BREAK IS NOT PERMITTED.

[COMBINATIONS]
OPEN JAW/ROUND TRIP/CIRCLE TRIP AND END-ON-END COMBINATIONS ARE NOT PERMITTED.
MIRROR IMAGE COMBINATIONS ARE PERMITTED.

[BLACKOUT DATES]
NO BLACKOUT DATES APPLY.

[SURCHARGES]
NO SURCHARGE REQUIREMENTS APPLY.

[ACCOMPANIED TRAVEL]
ACCOMPANIED TRAVEL NOT REQUIRED.

[TRAVEL RESTRICTIONS]
NO TRAVEL DATE RESTRICTIONS APPLY.

[SALES RESTRICTIONS]
NO SALES RESTRICTIONS APPLY.

[PENALTIES]
NO PENALTIES APPLY.

[HIP/MILEAGE EXCEPTIONS]
NO HIP OR MILEAGE EXCEPTIONS APPLY.

[TICKET ENDORSEMENTS]
TICKET ENDORSEMENT NOT REQUIRED.

[CHILDREN DISCOUNTS]
CNN/ACCOMPANIED CHILD PSGR 2-11 - CHARGE 75 PERCENT OF THE FARE. TICKET
DESIGNATOR - CH AND DISCOUNT PERCENT. MUST BE ACCOMPANIED ON ALL FLIGHTS
BY ADULT PSGR 12 OR OLDER. OR - UNN/UNACCOMPANIED CHILD PSGR 2-11
- CHARGE 100 PERCENT OF THE FARE. TICKET DESIGNATOR - CH AND DISCOUNT
PERCENT. OR - INF/INFANT WITHOUT A SEAT PSGR UNDER 2 - CHARGE 10
PERCENT OF THE FARE. TICKET DESIGNATOR - IN AND DISCOUNT PERCENT. MUST
BE ACCOMPANIED ON ALL FLIGHTS BY AT LEAST 1 BUT NO MORE THAN 1 ADULT
PSGR 12 OR OLDER. OR - INS/INFANT WITH A SEAT PSGR UNDER 2 - CHARGE
75 PERCENT OF THE FARE. TICKET DESIGNATOR - CH AND DISCOUNT PERCENT.
MUST BE ACCOMPANIED ON ALL FLIGHTS BY ADULT PSGR 12 OR OLDER. OR - NOTE
- TEXT BELOW NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. UNACCOMPANIED INFANT
NOT PERMITTED. EXCEPTION - UNACCOMPANIED INFANTS MAY BE ACCEPTED FOR
TRANSPORTATION PROVIDED PRIOR ARRANGEMENTS HAVE BEEN MADE WITH THE TRANSPORTING
CARRIER OR CARRIERS. THE CHARGE SHALL BE BE 100 PERCENT OF
THE APPLICABLE ADULT FARE.

[TOUR CONDUCTOR DISCOUNTS]
NO DISCOUNTS FOR TOUR CONDUCTORS.

[AGENT DISCOUNTS]
NO DISCOUNTS FOR SALE AGENTS.

[ALL OTHER DISCOUNTS]
NO DISCOUNTS FOR OTHERS.

[MISCELLANEOUS PROVISIONS]
NO PROVISIONS APPLY.

[FARE BY RULE]
NOTE - THE FOLLOWING TEXT IS INFORMATIONAL AND NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING.
THE PROVISIONS BELOW APPLY ONLY AS FOLLOWS - VALID FOR OTHER
GROUPS OF 5 PASSENGERS MAXIMUM. VALID FOR SEAMAN GOVERNMENT ORDER GREECE
PSGR. ID REQUIRED AT TICKETING. THE FARE WAS CALCULATED AS 55 PERCENT
OF THE ROUND-TRIP YIF FARE.  NO HIGHER INTERMEDIATE POINT CHECK
IS APPLIED TO THIS FARE.  APPLY FARE BY RULE RULES TO THIS FARE FOR CATEGORIES:
50-RULE APPL        01-ELIGIBILITY      04-FLIGHT APPL 07-MAX
STAY        08-STOPOVERS        09-TRANSFERS 10-COMBINATIONS 
 11-BLACKOUTS        12-SURCHARGES 13-ACCOMP TRAVEL    14-TRAVEL RESTR
    15-SALES RESTR 16-PENALTIES        18-TICKET ENDO      19-CHILDREN
DISC 20-TOUR COND DISC  21-AGENT DISC      22-ALL OTHER DISC 23-MISC
PROVISIONS  26-GROUPS          27-TOURS 28-VISIT A COUNTRY  29-DEPOSITS
        35-NEGOTIATED FARES  APPLY BASE FARE RULES TO THIS
FARE FOR CATEGORIES: 02-DAY/TIME        03-SEASONS          05-ADV RES/TKTG
06-MIN STAY

[GROUPS]
NO GROUP PROVISIONS APPLY.

[TOURS]
NO TOUR PROVISIONS APPLY.

[VISIT ANOTHER COUNTRY]
NO VISIT ANOTHER COUNTRY PROVISIONS APPLY.

[DEPOSITS]
NO DEPOSIT PROVISIONS APPLY.

[VOLUNTARY CHANGES]
NO VOLUNTARY CHANGES DATA FOUND.

[NEGOTIATED FARES]
NOT APPLICABLE. IC.INTERNATIONAL CONSTRUCTION NOT A CONSTRUCTED FARE

Keter Nov 16, 2009 1:52 am
GI
 
Originally Posted by KVS (Post 12822871)
To get the GI for a specific fare, you need to refer to the Routing Rules display (as long as the fare is correctly filed with a unique Fare Basis code):

[KVS Availability Tool 5.1.4/Diamond - Routing Rules: DEL-MOW/YY/CIF/5834 USD]
Code:
DELMOW-YY 15NOV09      *RULE DISPLAY*    TARIFF 0004 RULE ESAS
* ADD APPLICABLE TAX * FED INSP FEES *                         
  -FARE BASIS        INR      NUC                PTC  FT  GI
CIF            R    271975  5594.12              ADT  NL  EH
CIF            R    271975  5594.12              CNN  NL  EH
CIF            R    271975  5594.12              UNN  NL  EH
CIF/IN90        R    27200    559.40              INF  NL  EH
CIF            R    271975  5594.12              INS  NL  EH
BOOKING CODES ENTER>S E SPECIFIC AIRLINE FARES DISPLAY.       
INDUSTRY FARE TYPE -  BU - BUSINESS CLASS UNRESTRICTED         
MPM - EH  5452 VIA EASTERN HEMISPHERE
---------------------------------------------------------------

  MPM CONSULT ROUTINGS TARIFF
My point was that for the lower YIF fare (via FE) the routing rules cannot be retrieved in KVS at all [the rules which show up are for the higher fare], hence you can only guess (or ask a TA) what GI is to be used.

KVS Nov 16, 2009 12:54 pm
Originally Posted by Keter (Post 12825680)
My point was that for the lower YIF fare (via FE) the routing rules cannot be retrieved in KVS at all [the rules which show up are for the higher fare], hence you can only guess (or ask a TA) what GI is to be used.
That is correct: For fares, which cannot be uniquely identified via a Fare Basis code (e.g. due to incorrectly-filed fares), you can only view basic Fare information and not Fare/Routing rules.

zman Nov 19, 2009 8:29 pm
Datasource ERROR - Availability NOT working
 
If using Availability with WSPAN or APPOLO u get a "Datasource error" with some type of pricing and fare buckets info for just one flight within the error message.
Sabre and Galileo appear to work

KVS Nov 19, 2009 10:44 pm
Originally Posted by zman (Post 12850350)
If using Availability with WSPAN or APPOLO u get a "Datasource error" with some type of pricing and fare buckets info for just one flight within the error message.
Sabre and Galileo appear to work
A hotfix for [WSpan: ITN] & [Apollo: ITN] has just been released -- pls download V5.1.5.

zman Nov 20, 2009 2:39 pm
Originally Posted by KVS (Post 12850857)
A hotfix for [WSpan: ITN] & [Apollo: ITN] has just been released -- pls download V5.1.5.
Works ok with 5.1.5
That was quick
Thanks

tomh009 Nov 20, 2009 7:29 pm
I could have sworn that KVS used to show the mileage when right-clicking a flight on the availability page. But at least with 5.1.5 it's not there.

Has it moved to somewhere else? Has it disappeared? Or was it never there in the first place?

KVS Nov 20, 2009 7:59 pm
Originally Posted by tomh009 (Post 12855800)
I could have sworn that KVS used to show the mileage when right-clicking a flight on the availability page. But at least with 5.1.5 it's not there.

Has it moved to somewhere else? Has it disappeared? Or was it never there in the first place?
Distance info used to be shown with [Apollo: ITN] & [WSpan: ITN] Methods. However, this info is no longer provided by the underlying datasources.

It remains available when using [Awards/SkyTeam] and will also be available for [Sabre: GTC] in the next version.

tomh009 Nov 20, 2009 8:48 pm
Originally Posted by KVS (Post 12855906)
Distance info used to be shown with [Apollo: ITN] & [WSpan: ITN] Methods. However, this info is no longer provided by the underlying datasources.

It remains available when using [Awards/SkyTeam] and will also be available for [Sabre: GTC] in the next version.
Thanks for the quick reply. SkyTeam doesn't help if there are no SkyTeam flights, but I'll wait for the next update and then use Sabre. :)

gleff Nov 21, 2009 5:28 am
Originally Posted by tomh009 (Post 12856049)
Thanks for the quick reply. SkyTeam doesn't help if there are no SkyTeam flights, but I'll wait for the next update and then use Sabre. :)
in the meantime just use great circle mapper http://gc.kls2.com/

Flyiboy Nov 21, 2009 10:09 am
When KVS and Airlines update each other ?
 
How often is KVS updated from the airlines. I found a great price and it had the seat for it..but I kinda missed out. Waited too long. I am just wondering when they update and or release better prices..

Thanks

zman Nov 21, 2009 12:12 pm
City Pairs Mileage Calculations
 
try using the below for mileage calcualtions
it is +/- a few miles of accuracy (airline variance)
http://www.milecalc.com/mileage-calculator

KVS Nov 21, 2009 1:53 pm
Originally Posted by tomh009 (Post 12856049)
Thanks for the quick reply. SkyTeam doesn't help if there are no SkyTeam flights, but I'll wait for the next update and then use Sabre. :)
Even better news now: Distance info is expected to be available in [WSpan: ITN], [Apollo: ITN], and [Sabre: GTC] in the next release.

KVS Nov 21, 2009 1:54 pm
Originally Posted by Flyiboy (Post 12857866)
How often is KVS updated from the airlines. I found a great price and it had the seat for it..but I kinda missed out. Waited too long. I am just wondering when they update and or release better prices..

Thanks
The short answer is that the information is real-time.


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