Covid19: Swiss refunds after cancellation
May 20, 2020, 4:12 pm
#346
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,763
I found this webpage which could help with cancelled flight confirmations:
https://swiss.flight-status.info/
While it lets you select only data from yesterday to tomorrow, you can enter the address as follows with flight number and date: https://swiss.flight-status.info/lx-1822/2020-03-19
to check whether the flight was cancelled or not (by the airline).
https://swiss.flight-status.info/
While it lets you select only data from yesterday to tomorrow, you can enter the address as follows with flight number and date: https://swiss.flight-status.info/lx-1822/2020-03-19
to check whether the flight was cancelled or not (by the airline).
However I have requested eTickets print out in April after LX finally extended its cancellation thru 2nd week of May therefore covered our first 2 flights. The PNR did not pull up flight details, but using eTickets I could still get the eTickets sent to me - on the PDF eTickets, all 3 flights showed Canceled. PDF file is attachments to email dated Apr 17 with the flights departed on May 6, and May 12.
Though since I did not pay the tickets with my own credit card but used Chase Ultimate Rewad points to book, I am stuck since the payment card is Chase' own Chase Reward card. They would not do the charge back but only requested refund from LX. Chase UR / Expedia is fully aware the flights are canceled by LX and refund is due customer. Unfortunately untill LX pays, Chase UR could not pay me back the equivalent points used.
Last edited by Happy; May 20, 2020 at 4:26 pm
May 20, 2020, 4:51 pm
#347
Suspended
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Gringolandia y LatinoAmerica a veces EU y Asia
Programs: AV, AA, BA, CM, UA, Hertz, Marriott, Hilton
Posts: 153
For those who understand German, the mainstream media in CH is picking up on LX delay tactics. Let’s hope that the case against them picks up in the court of public opinion and that they can’t go on with the deception.
https://www.srf.ch/news/schweiz/kund...g_sm_medium=fb
https://www.srf.ch/news/schweiz/kund...g_sm_medium=fb
They are not "letting" anything happen. LX is actively, strategically and illegally working to deny customer refunds to the maximum extent. When I read this thread I see their tactics are very creative and malfeasant si far beyond AV's and MOL's. I am very happy I have no LX reservation to fight for since many years.
Years before mi amigo called LX "reneging gnomes"...they have history. He used to say, "Torch the gnomes!" Chargeback! LOL!
May 20, 2020, 10:44 pm
#348
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Australia
Programs: LHSen UA1K VAGold QFSilv HHon Diamond ShangrilaJade Radisson Gold SPG Gold Marriott Gold Hertz Presi
Posts: 1,049
Same here. I tried this, but the flight status on our flights also shown "Contact Airline"
However I have requested eTickets print out in April after LX finally extended its cancellation thru 2nd week of May therefore covered our first 2 flights. The PNR did not pull up flight details, but using eTickets I could still get the eTickets sent to me - on the PDF eTickets, all 3 flights showed Canceled. PDF file is attachments to email dated Apr 17 with the flights departed on May 6, and May 12.
Though since I did not pay the tickets with my own credit card but used Chase Ultimate Rewad points to book, I am stuck since the payment card is Chase' own Chase Reward card. They would not do the charge back but only requested refund from LX. Chase UR / Expedia is fully aware the flights are canceled by LX and refund is due customer. Unfortunately untill LX pays, Chase UR could not pay me back the equivalent points used.
However I have requested eTickets print out in April after LX finally extended its cancellation thru 2nd week of May therefore covered our first 2 flights. The PNR did not pull up flight details, but using eTickets I could still get the eTickets sent to me - on the PDF eTickets, all 3 flights showed Canceled. PDF file is attachments to email dated Apr 17 with the flights departed on May 6, and May 12.
Though since I did not pay the tickets with my own credit card but used Chase Ultimate Rewad points to book, I am stuck since the payment card is Chase' own Chase Reward card. They would not do the charge back but only requested refund from LX. Chase UR / Expedia is fully aware the flights are canceled by LX and refund is due customer. Unfortunately untill LX pays, Chase UR could not pay me back the equivalent points used.
May 21, 2020, 12:54 am
#349
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: GVA
Programs: A3 *G, LX *G, AF *S
Posts: 761
You need to do it obviously before the flight date, as soon as the cancellation by Swiss is announced/suspected.
Did the same: emailed all e-tickets to me which show "cancelled" for the respective flight.
Did the same: emailed all e-tickets to me which show "cancelled" for the respective flight.
May 21, 2020, 3:10 am
#350
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Australia
Programs: LHSen UA1K VAGold QFSilv HHon Diamond ShangrilaJade Radisson Gold SPG Gold Marriott Gold Hertz Presi
Posts: 1,049
Way to go LX aka LH!
I pity those who lost a lot more than I did - only euro 85 for me aka AU$182
Was amazed at the superb immediate responses and refunds for award tickets due to SARSCOV2 cancelled flights on VA,QF,QR,RJ,SQ,LX Many thanks to United Airlines, American Airlines and Etihad Airways for their great frequent flyer programs
At least SQ didn't dispute my Amex charge-back for an award ticket on LX- TLV-ZRH-MXP
LH Gruppe got 9 Billion Euros effectively today from DE - so really they are laughing their way to the bank with all their refunds or lack therof
Rant -well no more LX aka LH Gruppe to/from Tel Aviv for me from now on -I can fly a widebody with decent business on BA rather than an A321 on LX dayflights and all flights with LH zu/von Tel Aviv
Last edited by cbourl; May 21, 2020 at 3:14 am Reason: typos
May 21, 2020, 4:11 pm
#351
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,763
The flights were canceled, but the PNR was still valid when I went to LX site trying to pull up the itinerary details - it would not pull up, just said I needed to contact travel agency. Then I tried for eTicket number, it then show the full itinerary with flight canceled. I requested the eTickets sent to me so to have a record of airline canceled flights.
On the good news front - somehow Chase managed to return the points used to book this itinerary - I dont know if Chase has actually received a refund to its Chase Reward credit card used to make the payment but just 45 min ago Chase sent an email on refunding the points used to pay for the 2 tickets ($236.87 each). The odd thing is, the case number referenced in the email does not match either of the 2 case numbers I was given on 2 separate chats. Good luck to those who are still fighting to get back their own money.
Thank you for giving Chase Travel the opportunity to resolve your issue. We apologize for the inconvenience this has caused. We are writing to advise you that we have processed your refund due to the cancellation.
The points will be available in 15 minutes to 30 minutes.
Please be assured that you are a valued customer and we look forward to your continued patronage. Should you require additional information or if we may be of further assistance on this matter please contact us at 1-888-511-5323. We’re available 24 hours a day, seven days a week.
If you need travel assistance, You may call us at 1-888-511-5323.
Thank you for choosing Chase Travel Ultimate Rewards!
On the good news front - somehow Chase managed to return the points used to book this itinerary - I dont know if Chase has actually received a refund to its Chase Reward credit card used to make the payment but just 45 min ago Chase sent an email on refunding the points used to pay for the 2 tickets ($236.87 each). The odd thing is, the case number referenced in the email does not match either of the 2 case numbers I was given on 2 separate chats. Good luck to those who are still fighting to get back their own money.
Thank you for giving Chase Travel the opportunity to resolve your issue. We apologize for the inconvenience this has caused. We are writing to advise you that we have processed your refund due to the cancellation.
The points will be available in 15 minutes to 30 minutes.
Please be assured that you are a valued customer and we look forward to your continued patronage. Should you require additional information or if we may be of further assistance on this matter please contact us at 1-888-511-5323. We’re available 24 hours a day, seven days a week.
If you need travel assistance, You may call us at 1-888-511-5323.
Thank you for choosing Chase Travel Ultimate Rewards!
May 22, 2020, 2:51 pm
#352
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: ZRH
Programs: LH SEN
Posts: 462
I just checked my Amex statements for this year and noticed that Swiss has not refunded at least two bookings that were cancelled within the 24 hour booking guarantee.
I've never seen this happen before. Normally, they just put a hold and then release this when it's cancelled.
Need to be careful with this company.
I've never seen this happen before. Normally, they just put a hold and then release this when it's cancelled.
Need to be careful with this company.
May 23, 2020, 5:48 am
#353
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: ZRH
Programs: LX SEN & WoH Globalist
Posts: 274
I have an upcoming flight in Z from SIN to ZRH on 15/07. I definitely need to fly during next few weeks but would like to go a bit earlier (End of June). At the moment my flight on 15/07 is not cancelled yet and I assume it can take a few more weeks until that’s done from LX. I booked the flight back in 2019.
Do you guys think that the below free rebooking regulation from LX would also count in my case today?
Do you guys think that the below free rebooking regulation from LX would also count in my case today?
Your flight is not cancelled
Your flight is not cancelled
- You can rebook your flight once free of charge, regardless of the terms and conditions of the originally purchased ticket. Start of travel must be latest by 31 December 2021 and the rebooking has to be done before the original start of travel.
- Your ticket will remain valid and you can use it towards a future flight. Latest start of travel is 31 December 2021. If you would like to choose this option, please get in touch with us, latest by 31 January 2021. You can also change your destination and your travel class. Please note, that in these cases, an additional payment might be necessary, e.g. if you change to a higher travel class or if you rebook from a short-haul to a long-haul flight.
- If you decide on a new flight until 31 August 2020 and your travel starts latest until 31 December 2020 you will receive an additional CHF/EUR/USD 50 discount1 on the ticket price. Should the rebooked fare be more expensive due to a change of destination (e.g. rebooking from short-haul to long-haul), change of travel class or similar, additional payment may be necessary despite the discount
- [*]
Last edited by Gioventu; May 23, 2020 at 6:16 am
May 23, 2020, 6:21 am
#354
Join Date: Feb 2014
Programs: Star Alliance Gold, AS MVP
Posts: 990
I have an upcoming flight in Z from SIN to ZRH on 15/07. I definitely need to fly during next few weeks but would like to go a bit earlier (End of June). At the moment my flight on 15/07 is not cancelled yet and I assume it can take a few more weeks until that’s done from LX. I booked the flight back in 2019.
Do you guys think that the below free rebooking regulation from LX would also count in my case today?[h3].[*] [/list]
Do you guys think that the below free rebooking regulation from LX would also count in my case today?[h3].[*] [/list]
May 23, 2020, 12:14 pm
#355
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: ZRH
Posts: 28
Ok so Swiss strikes back. Somehow they've managed to justify there is no ground for a chargeback as the flight was cancelled due to government restrictions thus there are no dispute rights according to Visa. I'll try to fight back, I don't see 261/2004 makes any distinction on reason for cancellation regarding cash refund, which they have refused to provide in the given 7 days.
May 23, 2020, 3:00 pm
#356
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2015
Location: BOS, YVR, ZRH
Programs: *G
Posts: 17,405
Given how much trouble people have with getting refunds for cancelled flights, I'm guessing there's close to no chance for NON-cancelled flights that nonetheless are unlikely to be able to be taken? (e.g. I have tickets ZRH-VLC for August, but I'm not sure we'll even be able to fly TO switzerland, even if ZRH-VLC is operational).
Am I understanding correctly that IF I find an alternative travel plan to use the ticket money for by the end of August for travel before the end of 2020 I get original ticket value + 50 CHF in voucher, and if I can't identify such a flight I get ticket value as a voucher for use for travel by December 2021?
Thanks!
Am I understanding correctly that IF I find an alternative travel plan to use the ticket money for by the end of August for travel before the end of 2020 I get original ticket value + 50 CHF in voucher, and if I can't identify such a flight I get ticket value as a voucher for use for travel by December 2021?
Thanks!
May 23, 2020, 4:02 pm
#357
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 796
Ok so Swiss strikes back. Somehow they've managed to justify there is no ground for a chargeback as the flight was cancelled due to government restrictions thus there are no dispute rights according to Visa. I'll try to fight back, I don't see 261/2004 makes any distinction on reason for cancellation regarding cash refund, which they have refused to provide in the given 7 days.
How long did it take for them to hit back? (from the time you got the letter of approval of your chargeback to the time that you were notified that they don't agree)
May 23, 2020, 9:58 pm
#358
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: ZRH
Programs: LX SEN & WoH Globalist
Posts: 274
May 24, 2020, 1:19 am
#359
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Munich, Algarve, Sussex or S.F Bay Area
Programs: Mucci, BA Gold, A3*Gold, AA Plat, HH Gold, IHG Plat Amb, Marriott Plat
Posts: 4,164
Ok so Swiss strikes back. Somehow they've managed to justify there is no ground for a chargeback as the flight was cancelled due to government restrictions thus there are no dispute rights according to Visa. I'll try to fight back, I don't see 261/2004 makes any distinction on reason for cancellation regarding cash refund, which they have refused to provide in the given 7 days.
Did you not get a cancellation confirmation after you requested a refund?
My cancellation confirmation for my cancelled Swiss AMS-ZRH-HKG-AKL flight, which surprisingly was sent by Lufthansa despite ticket andbooking being on Swiss, contained the following text:
Unfortunately we had to cancel your booking on 15 April 2020.
The already issued ticket(s) have been sent to our refund department for further processing.
We kindly inform you that if you require proof that your scheduled flight was delayed/cancelled, you need to request it immediately after the flight has been delayed/cancelled as we do not handle such requests retroactively.
The already issued ticket(s) have been sent to our refund department for further processing.
We kindly inform you that if you require proof that your scheduled flight was delayed/cancelled, you need to request it immediately after the flight has been delayed/cancelled as we do not handle such requests retroactively.
In your case, I would insist on the CC company rejecting Swiss’ arguments. If that fails then use all legal remedies in your juresdiction. Perhaps a legal claim against both the airline and your CC company might get their attention.
May 24, 2020, 2:35 am
#360
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: CH, D, USA
Posts: 1,729
I conclude there is nothing to do but wait. It's wrong and unlawful, and even the Airlines admit it.
Nevertheless credit companies and governments have sided with airlines to keep them alive.
Passenger options are limited. Lawsuits will take months or years, and enforcing the 7 day refund rule in court is pointless. After many months, just before the hearing, they would just refund and the case is out. Or they go bankrupt before... And you can get in line.
Below an email I got from BAZL in Switzerland, the federal office enforcing the EU rules. Hopeless. They say: Wait 2 months then write again or sue them.
---------- Forwarded message ---------Von: <[email protected]>Date: Do., DD. Apr. 2020, HH.MMSubject: AW: (ARILINE) verweigert Rückerstattung Sehr geehrter Herr f4free Wir nehmen Ihre Meldung zur Kenntnis. Die Verordnung (EG) Nr. 261/2004 gibt dem Passagier die Möglichkeit, bei annulliertem Flug eine Ticketkostenrückerstattung zu verlangen. Aufgrund der durch Covid-19 verursachten aussergewöhnlichen Situation bieten die Fluggesellschaften als weitere Option Fluggutscheine an. Der Passagier kann sich für diese Option entscheiden. Zurzeit sind auf europäischer Ebene Gespräche im Gang, ob anstelle der Ticketkostenrückerstattung auch Gutscheine ausgegeben werden können. Eine Anpassung der Verordnung in diesem Punkt wird diskutiert und die Schweiz wird die neue Regelung im Rahmen des bilateralen Luftverkehrsabkommens auf dem hierfür vorgesehenen Weg über den Gemischten Ausschuss übernehmen. Ungeachtet dessen können Sie eine Anzeige beim BAZL einreichen. Bis zur Klärung der rechtlichen Situation auf europäischer Ebene setzt das BAZL jedoch momentan Sanktionsverfahren betreffend Ticketkostenrückerstattung aus. Wir weisen an dieser Stelle darauf hin, dass Sie ihre Forderungen gegen Fluggesellschaften, wozu auch die Rückerstattung der Ticketkosten gehört, bei den Zivilgerichten einklagen können. Bitte kontaktieren Sie zuerst die Fluggesellschaft, um die Wahlmöglichkeiten zu prüfen. Aufgrund der besonderen Situation gehen zurzeit ausserordentlich viele Anfragen bei den Fluggesellschaften ein, weshalb die Bearbeitungsdauer länger als üblicherweise sein kann. Falls Sie mit dem Angebot der Fluggesellschaft nicht zufrieden sind oder innerhalb von 2 Monaten keine Antwort von der Fluggesellschaft erhalten, können Sie das BAZL-Meldeformular unter folgendem Link ausfüllen: http://www.bazl.admin.ch/pax-onlineformular Mit freundlichen Grüssen Bundesamt für Zivilluftfahrt Team Passenger RightsSection Economic Affairs Federal Department of the Environment,Transport, Energy and Communications DETECFederal Office of Civil Aviation FOCAAviation Policy and Strategy Mühlestrasse 2, CH-3063 Ittigen, Postal address: CH-3003 BernTel: +41 (0)58 465 95 96 mailto
[email protected] dmin.ch
Nevertheless credit companies and governments have sided with airlines to keep them alive.
Passenger options are limited. Lawsuits will take months or years, and enforcing the 7 day refund rule in court is pointless. After many months, just before the hearing, they would just refund and the case is out. Or they go bankrupt before... And you can get in line.
Below an email I got from BAZL in Switzerland, the federal office enforcing the EU rules. Hopeless. They say: Wait 2 months then write again or sue them.
---------- Forwarded message ---------Von: <[email protected]>Date: Do., DD. Apr. 2020, HH.MMSubject: AW: (ARILINE) verweigert Rückerstattung Sehr geehrter Herr f4free Wir nehmen Ihre Meldung zur Kenntnis. Die Verordnung (EG) Nr. 261/2004 gibt dem Passagier die Möglichkeit, bei annulliertem Flug eine Ticketkostenrückerstattung zu verlangen. Aufgrund der durch Covid-19 verursachten aussergewöhnlichen Situation bieten die Fluggesellschaften als weitere Option Fluggutscheine an. Der Passagier kann sich für diese Option entscheiden. Zurzeit sind auf europäischer Ebene Gespräche im Gang, ob anstelle der Ticketkostenrückerstattung auch Gutscheine ausgegeben werden können. Eine Anpassung der Verordnung in diesem Punkt wird diskutiert und die Schweiz wird die neue Regelung im Rahmen des bilateralen Luftverkehrsabkommens auf dem hierfür vorgesehenen Weg über den Gemischten Ausschuss übernehmen. Ungeachtet dessen können Sie eine Anzeige beim BAZL einreichen. Bis zur Klärung der rechtlichen Situation auf europäischer Ebene setzt das BAZL jedoch momentan Sanktionsverfahren betreffend Ticketkostenrückerstattung aus. Wir weisen an dieser Stelle darauf hin, dass Sie ihre Forderungen gegen Fluggesellschaften, wozu auch die Rückerstattung der Ticketkosten gehört, bei den Zivilgerichten einklagen können. Bitte kontaktieren Sie zuerst die Fluggesellschaft, um die Wahlmöglichkeiten zu prüfen. Aufgrund der besonderen Situation gehen zurzeit ausserordentlich viele Anfragen bei den Fluggesellschaften ein, weshalb die Bearbeitungsdauer länger als üblicherweise sein kann. Falls Sie mit dem Angebot der Fluggesellschaft nicht zufrieden sind oder innerhalb von 2 Monaten keine Antwort von der Fluggesellschaft erhalten, können Sie das BAZL-Meldeformular unter folgendem Link ausfüllen: http://www.bazl.admin.ch/pax-onlineformular Mit freundlichen Grüssen Bundesamt für Zivilluftfahrt Team Passenger RightsSection Economic Affairs Federal Department of the Environment,Transport, Energy and Communications DETECFederal Office of Civil Aviation FOCAAviation Policy and Strategy Mühlestrasse 2, CH-3063 Ittigen, Postal address: CH-3003 BernTel: +41 (0)58 465 95 96 mailto
[email protected] dmin.ch