nufnuf77

Hence we had the right to deny them boarding for a flight we were no longer operating. - this is the most ridiculous legal argument i have seen from swiss yet! they deny boarding for a flight which didnt occur...

whereiswaldo

I just got around requesting yet another refund from Swiss - for a June flight Swiss canceled without any notification, and which shows on the Swiss website as "Error. Your reservation xxxxxx has been deleted. (xxxxx)". What this means is that Swiss not just canceled the flight but unilaterally deleted any customer-facing booking record. That is something I have not experienced in 30+ years of travel. Swiss customer service again issued a letter stating that that the "booking has been cancelled as requested". No, I asked for a refund for a flight which Swiss canceled. Friends don't let friends fly Swiss, I suppose.

MOZBOB

Thank you, I’m most interested to hear what Amex’ stance will be on this.
This is indeed the most ridiculous argument they’ve been using. I also quickly checked a fare to Kenya and the one that I pulled also had the following addition to their fare rules:
REFUND PERMITTED BEFORE DEPARTURE IN CASE OF
REJECTION OF VISA. EMBASSY STATEMENT REQUIRED.
Already being a ridiculous argument that doesn’t stand, this part makes it even more void.

DanLondon

Swiss keeps telling me I’m in a refund queue (I’ve been DM’ing them on Twitter)

Hello Xxx, I understand the situation. Refund requests end up on a “queue” that is currently not processed with the normal speed. No date is known when the Refunds for eligible documents will be processed. We ask you to still have some patience. Take care, (name deleted)

Has anyone reacheD the front of this queue?

volutes

This happened to me on lufthansa as well. I wouldn’t have known that my flight was canceled if Amex hadn’t notified me.

Carpacchio

That's actually an interesting question, maybe @flyinglawyer can help:

- the flight was cancelled, therefore you should have the right to get reimbursed in full
- Swiss claims that you were not allowed to enter the country, so no reimbursement -> potentially with the extension that the flight was only cancelled because no-one was allowed to enter the country, hence no refund due (only maybe to those passenger who can prove that they were allowed to enter, once they sue).

What will take legal precedent ?

lehovec

It is ridiculous reason and it is pure delay tactics. I had the same response to my AMEX chargeback for my cancelled flight to Slovenia. But I am a Slovenian citizen (so would be allowed entry if flight would have operated) and my partner had letter from Slovenian embassy saying he will be allowed entry as well (dated well in advance of the cancelled flight). All forwarded to AMEX with proof that the flight was cancelled (kindly provided by Swiss themselves after asking for confirmation via their contact form). Waiting for the response before I start claim under section 75.

I know I sound like a petulant child but I will never again book with Swiss even if I have to go out of my way or at the greater cost. I am so angry that they think this is acceptable. I don't mind waiting slightly longer for my refund but to outright say we are not processing any refunds at the moment (as they did to my enquiry) is just outrageous.

IAN-UK

The behaviour by SWISS is of course outrageous, and i completely understand your action - though hopefully it will focus AMEX on the ridiculous nature of the SWISS excuse, rather than somehow legitimise it.

Dan1113

Do we know if chargebacks have been successful with other airlines throughout this covid situation? Or is it just SWISS (wider LH group?) disputing in this way?

lehovec

Yes, over on easyJet forum ppl had "success" with disputes as easyJet did not even bother to reply to AMEX. I was lucky and got all my refunds from EZY relatively quickly. It is just LX that is acting this appallingly.

LoungeLizzard

Several people have reported that they got their refunds from Swiss. - It seems that those who got the money back were generally not those who did a lot of warm waving, charge-backing or threatening to take them to court.

I do have a certain understanding for getting mad at them, but I find it unfair to all others who wait for refunds and rebooking if you call or write to them a hundred times and therefore bind their already scarce resources. They did make it clear that the refunds will happen, but it will take time. I would like them to stick to that rule and not let people who shout the loudest jump the queue.

warakorn

Looking at the documents, which Swiss has provided to Amex, this is not clear at all - that a refund will happen.

In my case, I got a cash refund back from BA via a chargeback (and the representment period has expired). Wizz refunded the cash within 7 days without a chargeback. And I took Ryanair to court after they fought a chargeback and the card-issueing bank sided with Ryanair.

rosenkavalier

their resources aren't THAT scarce if they are able to systematically reject all chargeback requests in a swift manner like they are doing now...

Adam Smith

Swiss verbally acknowledged (in mid-March) that I was legally entitled to a refund. They just told me that I had to call them back in 2021 to get one. Not only is that against EU261, it's just plain ****ing unreasonable.

Judging by the posts in this thread, most people have attempted to resolve the situation directly with LX, and only turned to chargebacks etc after LX has tried to deny them their rights (and their money).

Let's not blame the victims of LX's outrageous conduct for pursuing what little recourse is available to them.

zrh2yvr

Finally got my refund for 2 long-haul business fares. It was actually a refundable ticket that we had to change (in the normal course) during February and I had requested the refund before things went crazy. Request was made February 28 and refund received May 26. Initiated chargeback via AMEX - Canada on May 1. What's strange was that the newly issued and changed ticket (issued Feb 28) was put in for cancellation on March 16 and refunded on March 19 . . . strange enough while the original ticket took ~3 months.

The part I'm frustrated now is that this crazy ticket has a segment on SA. SA uses "YR" for it's carrier surcharge (instead of YQ). Problem is that LX/LH fare rules on refundable tickets say "YR" is not refundable but that "third party charges and taxes are refundable". The thing is that this ticket is not subject to the LX/LH "YR" - - So it's complicated and they have not refunded YR (this was assessed manually by issuing agency - so refund was submitted without the request for YR - - so still time to dispute this).

After all that - the refund came back but short ~300 on each ticket due to local SA YR charges - - which under SA refundable tickets is always refundable.

Now I have to start a long - - long - process and wait to get back ~600 for a bunch of SA taxes that were buried in the LX ticket for which the fare rule words have conflicted rules (YR is not refundable but third-party charges are).

I will say LX is becoming very difficult to deal with and I would not issue any ticket of any kind with LX at this moment (while I have booked 2 new tickets on AC with full confidence).

AC and BA were absolutely seamless on their refunds while LX has been completely impossible to deal with . . (Emphasis added).