mmff

Thanks for taking the time to write down these two posts. I would upvote them 1000 times each if I could.

Adam Smith

At least at 20%, it was offering compensation for the risk.

Yes. €50, applicable only to base fare, could only be used if the difference in base fare was at least €, had to be used within a short time period... That was a joke.

I don't know about that. I wonder whether they might still have recourse to a chargeback, given that the services paid for were never received.

That's what I've been saying.

airoli

Modesty is relative. I had two cancelled LX tickets with a base fare of ~CHF100 each. For those, the CHF50 bonus was quite generous, relatively speaking.

It goes without saying that for my much more expensive long-haul J tickets, I wouldn't dream of taking that voucher offer.

Adam Smith

No need for the "sort of de facto" there. One of IATA's core missions is to lobby governments on its members' behalf. So yes, what they say should be taken with a grain of salt, keeping in mind that their goal is to help their member airlines obtain as much free or cheap capital as possible with the fewest strings

Sure, but even then, how likely are you to use the credits to book another ticket with a base fare >CHF150? And what was the total ticket price? LX isn't just keeping the base fare, after all, it's keeping the YQ, YR, government taxes, etc. So if your base fare was CHF100 but your total price was CHF300, your compensation isn't 50% of the money you're effectively lending to LX, it's 17%.

zrh2yvr

Yes - This is true. LX/LH use YR for these minor charges (and often they are not refundable). However, South African applies the fare surcharge using YR (instead of YQ) and the LX rule says YR not refundable so I'm out $600 on a refundable ticket (which we changed to not use South African and thus avoid the surcharge in the first place) . . . I will fight it . and I think I should win but this is going to take a long time and lots of effort. .

airoli

Sorry. I misspoke. The two LX tickets I had actually had a total price (fare + all taxes) of ~CHF100. One of them I've already reused, and I am confident I'll find an opportunity for the second one before long.

oliver2002

YR is the coding for the 16€ GDS fee, which is not refundable in any case as this pays for the GDS providers fees.

warakorn

By law this "fee" is refundable, in case the airline cancelled the flight.

hugolover

Doesn’t that depend on whether the TA has such refund of service fees stated in their contract with you?

Or do you mean, the YR is refunded to the TA but you accept the TA might charge €40 service charge and you don’t see a cent of it.

warakorn

No! The operating, who cancelled is flight, is obliged to refund the complete costs of the ticket (incl. any GDS fee). How often do I have to repeat that?
A TA has no role in that. The airline owes that money directly to the passenger. The passenger has the right to make a claim directly against the airline.

If the TA somehow wants to retain EUR 40 -> then this topic is solely between the airline and the TA; The passenger has nothing to do with this.
If the passenger receives a refund, but EUR 40 are missing from that, then the passenger may sue the airline for these EUR 40.
All in all, what can happen that the airline may has to pay these EUR 40 twice, once to the TA, another time to the passenger. However, this is the price an airline has to pay for cancelling a flight.
And before someone asks: Any terms & conditions, which mandates that the pax is only entitled to a cash refund minus some kind of fee, is invalid.

capedreamer

Unfortunately, as expected, my credit card / bank has taken Swiss's side and reapplied the charge for a $1,900 P fare (CDG-ZRH-GRU-EZE) back to my card. Apparently, the reason Swiss gave was "non-refundable ticket" and the bank thought that was good enough. No matter that I submitted all the documentation showing the airline cancelled the flights, its own conditions of carriage about involuntary cancellations, and the relevant EC261 regulations. If I want to re-open the case, I need to write in by physical mail or send a fax. No guarantee that the outcome will change.

I've already wasted so much time on this, I'm so so so upset. This is a US credit card I've already cancelled since I've moved overseas. At this point, I'm basically ready to just not respond or bother with this case anymore. If they want to send debt collectors after me, or if my FICO score is destroyed, so be it.

What an awful situation that is completely unfair to consumers.

Tafflyer

I don’t think refusing to pay your card issuing bank is a good idea. They are just as much victims of Swiss’ illegal actions here.

In my opinion, your response should be quick and aggressive. Engage a lawyer. Have them write to your bank to reopen the case and inform them that Swiss’ actions are indefensible. At the same time have your lawyer issue proceedings against Swiss for recovery of your funds plus legal costs. Also, report Swiss to the regulator in both your country of residence and France, where your journey would have commenced.

oliver2002

Also focus your efforts on Swiss, not your bank/amex.

Tafflyer

In terms of likely results, yes, but the card issuer also has a responsibility to the consumer to uphold any legitimate complaint. Simply siding with the merchant in clear cases of the merchant behaving badly as we are seeing here is disingenious.

warakorn

Thank you for letting us know.
I don't think that the bank is allowed to damage your FICO score, if you have disputed the claim in writing.

All in all, it's a pretty shameful behaviour of Swiss -> certainly Swiss deserves to land on a personal no-fly-list.