Covid19: Swiss refunds after cancellation
May 28, 2020, 3:14 pm
#421
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: MEX
Programs: AC E75K
Posts: 4,171
Wow. Just wow. Swiss confirmed that my booked flights are officially canceled. No per written confirmation, but per call center (and of course per Swiss timetable). I asked the call center for refunds to be processed. Call center confirmed that refunds will be processed and then issued the below. Note that the cancellation e-mail states that I requested a cancellation, now word of Swiss cancelling the flight, and that a refund may be "possible". This is outright fraudulent.
-------
Hello Mr. YYYYYYY
Your booking has been cancelled as requested.
Tickets no.:
xxxxxxxxxxxx
have been passed on for a possible* refund.
Best regards,
Swiss International Air Lines
-------
Hello Mr. YYYYYYY
Your booking has been cancelled as requested.
Tickets no.:
xxxxxxxxxxxx
have been passed on for a possible* refund.
Best regards,
Swiss International Air Lines
When Swiss cancelled flights on me, but before the itinerary was cancelled, I was able to pull up the reservation on Lufthansa's website that showed the cancelled segments. On Swiss's website, the cancellations were not reflected. Not sure if it's too late for you to try to pull up the reservation on Lufthansa.com.
May 28, 2020, 3:25 pm
#422
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 35
Reading through the above threads completely reflects the experience I’ve been going though. The first time I called I was told to call back in about a year!!!!
I’ve been also through the chargeback saga with Amex, resulting in Swiss saying it’s my fault because I am a British citizen and wouldn’t have been allowed on the flight (which just by chance happened to have been cancelled).
BA on the other hand have been fantastic, and almost in sympathy with them and to thank them for their good service, I have (probably stupidly) agreed to accept one expensive flight refunded as a voucher.
I have two returns cancelled with Swiss and am going to peruse it all back, I don’t ever want to book or fly with them again.
I’ve been also through the chargeback saga with Amex, resulting in Swiss saying it’s my fault because I am a British citizen and wouldn’t have been allowed on the flight (which just by chance happened to have been cancelled).
BA on the other hand have been fantastic, and almost in sympathy with them and to thank them for their good service, I have (probably stupidly) agreed to accept one expensive flight refunded as a voucher.
I have two returns cancelled with Swiss and am going to peruse it all back, I don’t ever want to book or fly with them again.
May 28, 2020, 3:33 pm
#423
Join Date: May 2015
Location: SFO
Posts: 82
You are kidding, right? Swiss canceled the flights in question but did not sent a cancellation note. The above quote from the e-mail sent by Swiss today clearly implies that I, not Swiss, canceled the booking. I did not - I requested a refund of a canceled flight. And that is not what Swiss documented.
May 28, 2020, 11:55 pm
#425
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: ZRH
Posts: 28
Chargeback approved 16. April, rejected 22nd May
Yes I got the cancellation mail, sent it as part of the original chargeback documentation. Will try again!
Thank you for the reference. Swiss claims I accepted article 7.1.2.g of their conditions of carriage that states they can refuse to carry me if I don't possess valid immigration documents. I'm a Spanish national travelling to Spain so I don't really know how they want to fit this article with the general travel ban due to State of Alarm.
In my case it's a Swiss visa Platinum (viseca), I'm also annoyed by how the took side with the airline straight away.
Yes I got the cancellation mail, sent it as part of the original chargeback documentation. Will try again!
Thank you for the reference. Swiss claims I accepted article 7.1.2.g of their conditions of carriage that states they can refuse to carry me if I don't possess valid immigration documents. I'm a Spanish national travelling to Spain so I don't really know how they want to fit this article with the general travel ban due to State of Alarm.
In my case it's a Swiss visa Platinum (viseca), I'm also annoyed by how the took side with the airline straight away.
Ok so I've instructed CC to initiate chargeback on the representment. Will update as I know more. I wish I could opt to not fly LX anymore but to us in landlocked Switzerland this is just not an option for many destinations unless you are willing to make stopovers.
May 29, 2020, 2:27 am
#426
Join Date: Dec 2010
Programs: HHonorsGold, MarriottPlat, BAEC Gold, FlyingBlue Silver
Posts: 111
Based on the experience of others, I'm now expecting my credit card company to take the side of Swiss and reverse the temporary credit. Out of frustration and anger, I have taken the time to fill out the EC261 passenger report claim via FOCA's website. After completing the online form, one has to sign and e-mail it to FOCA with supporting documentation. In case helpful, please I've attached a copy of my e-mail and a few supporting documents.
I also processed a similar (less detailed) complaint to our local authorities in my country.
Interestingly, based on the reports here on what basis Swiss rejects the claims, I checked the fare conditions of my tickets to India and it includes the following around Refunds/Cancellations:
CANCELLATIONS
ANY TIME
TICKET IS NON-REFUNDABLE.
WAIVED FOR DEATH OF PASSENGER OR FAMILY MEMBER.
NOTE -
WAIVERS MUST BE EVIDENCED BY DEATH CERTIFICATE
-----------------------------------------------
REFUND PERMITTED BEFORE DEPARTURE IN CASE OF
REJECTION OF VISA. EMBASSY STATEMENT REQUIRED.
Not sure if this exception is also listed for other destinations.
Whilst in my view their reason for rejection doesn’t stand anyway if they cancel the flight, this certainly voids their argument even more.
May 29, 2020, 2:34 am
#427
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: MEX
Programs: AC E75K
Posts: 4,171
Ugh - Unfortunately, I just received a response from FOCA redirecting me to the French authorities (presumably) because my first segment commences at CDG. Unfortunately, the Direction générale de l'aviation civile (DGAC) does not appear to have an online form. Its website (https://www.ecologique-solidaire.gouv.fr/) is all in French and also does not have an e-mail contact option. 
May 29, 2020, 3:18 am
#428
Join Date: Dec 2010
Programs: HHonorsGold, MarriottPlat, BAEC Gold, FlyingBlue Silver
Posts: 111
Ugh - Unfortunately, I just received a response from FOCA redirecting me to the French authorities (presumably) because my first segment commences at CDG. Unfortunately, the Direction générale de l'aviation civile (DGAC) does not appear to have an online form. Its website (https://www.ecologique-solidaire.gouv.fr/) is all in French and also does not have an e-mail contact option.
This is also where Amex initially got confused, saying Switzerland is not in the EU and hence EC261/2004 doesn't apply.....but it's a passenger right, not an airline right.
My French is poor, but just looked and https://www.ecologique-solidaire.gouv.fr/contact-mtes has a button at the bottom of the page to activate an online form with your email address. You could always try to copy over your stuff in English...
May 29, 2020, 5:06 am
#430
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: MEX
Programs: AC E75K
Posts: 4,171
Aah yes, you need to file those complaints in the first country of departure!
This is also where Amex initially got confused, saying Switzerland is not in the EU and hence EC261/2004 doesn't apply.....but it's a passenger right, not an airline right.
My French is poor, but just looked and https://www.ecologique-solidaire.gouv.fr/contact-mtes has a button at the bottom of the page to activate an online form with your email address. You could always try to copy over your stuff in English...
This is also where Amex initially got confused, saying Switzerland is not in the EU and hence EC261/2004 doesn't apply.....but it's a passenger right, not an airline right.
My French is poor, but just looked and https://www.ecologique-solidaire.gouv.fr/contact-mtes has a button at the bottom of the page to activate an online form with your email address. You could always try to copy over your stuff in English...
Btw, I had to delete my earlier post because it included a wrong attachment. I'm reposting my earlier message here:
Based on the experience of others, I'm now expecting my credit card company to take the side of Swiss and reverse the temporary credit. Out of frustration and anger, I have taken the time to fill out the EC261 passenger report claim via FOCA's website. After completing the online form, one has to sign and e-mail it to FOCA with supporting documentation. In case helpful, please I've attached a copy of my e-mail and a few supporting documents.
May 29, 2020, 6:40 am
#431
Suspended
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: PVG, FRA, SEA, HEL
Programs: UA Premier Gold
Posts: 4,783
Even if you could file at FOCA -> it wont make a difference.
Again - I know that fellow FT'ers will attack me for that - I also recommend to just refuse to pay Amex/issueing bank for the representment charge.
A debt collection agency has no privileges; your credit score cannot be downgraded in Germany (if you have filed a detailed dispute); I doubt that Amex or the card issueing bank will want to test the chargeback guidelines in a front of a court of law.
Again - I know that fellow FT'ers will attack me for that - I also recommend to just refuse to pay Amex/issueing bank for the representment charge.
A debt collection agency has no privileges; your credit score cannot be downgraded in Germany (if you have filed a detailed dispute); I doubt that Amex or the card issueing bank will want to test the chargeback guidelines in a front of a court of law.
May 29, 2020, 8:39 am
#432
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: MEX
Programs: AC E75K
Posts: 4,171
FWIW, FOCA claims they forwarded my case to DGAC.
I appreciate what you're saying but I think it's understandable that most laymen like me would rather not chance things. It seems you have some familiarity with EU law. If you indeed have a background in this field, could you recommend any legal representation we might be able to organize to file a class action claim against LX / LH. That seems more likely to succeed vs. advocating for individual FT members to take on a multi-billion corporation on their own.
Even if you could file at FOCA -> it wont make a difference.
Again - I know that fellow FT'ers will attack me for that - I also recommend to just refuse to pay Amex/issueing bank for the representment charge.
A debt collection agency has no privileges; your credit score cannot be downgraded in Germany (if you have filed a detailed dispute); I doubt that Amex or the card issueing bank will want to test the chargeback guidelines in a front of a court of law.
Again - I know that fellow FT'ers will attack me for that - I also recommend to just refuse to pay Amex/issueing bank for the representment charge.
A debt collection agency has no privileges; your credit score cannot be downgraded in Germany (if you have filed a detailed dispute); I doubt that Amex or the card issueing bank will want to test the chargeback guidelines in a front of a court of law.
May 29, 2020, 2:27 pm
#433
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 496
Got the documentation from AMEX/Swiss today. Thought I would share a couple of interesting images, note the grounds on which they are refusing the chargeback. It was my fault for not being allowed to enter Kenya 
Sorry, just realised this is not new, didn't read through the thread. But I will leave the images anyway.
Sorry, just realised this is not new, didn't read through the thread. But I will leave the images anyway.
Last edited by MaxFlying; May 29, 2020 at 2:32 pm
May 29, 2020, 2:50 pm
#434
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: MEX
Programs: AC E75K
Posts: 4,171
Got the documentation from AMEX/Swiss today. Thought I would share a couple of interesting images, note the grounds on which they are refusing the chargeback. It was my fault for not being allowed to enter Kenya
Sorry, just realised this is not new, didn't read through the thread. But I will leave the images anyway.
Sorry, just realised this is not new, didn't read through the thread. But I will leave the images anyway.