Tafflyer

They can dispute it if they wish. As implemented in the Netherlands this will be decided by a judge. Ruling would be able to be enforced by bailiffs.

MOZBOB

If this is in The Netherlands, you should certainly also file a complaint at the local aviation authorities. It’s correct that they don’t support you with individual cases, but the government has instructed them to enforce EC261/2004 again and sanction airlines that don’t. I’ve filed my complaint about them there and the more, the merrier. Swiss agreed to my chargeback, but it should have never come that far. But your story is even far more compelling to make the authorities aware and give them reason to follow up.
I would love to see them getting fined!

Tafflyer

Your link doesn’t quite work but I found the page you meant, thanks. I will certainly file an enforcement complaint, although like many of these institutions the Dutch one appears eithe lazy or toothless. The biggest thing missing from EU261 IMHO is enforcement. Airlines ignore their responsibilities and break the law with impunity and far too few passengers call them to account.

Amex are also not covering themselves in glory either. The chargeback process is there for them to intervene to keep relationships between customers and merchants fair. In my case, they obviously took Swiss’ word without even reading the documents I sent them. They as much as admitted this to me on the phone, although to be fair immediately reopened the case.

I will not give up on this and I have no intention of letting Swiss keep my money until next year. I am already flying again and while having an inherent dislike of Lufthansa Group I always liked flying Swiss. I find it surprising that what is now enticing me to fly low-cost carriers is not their low prices but the poor performance and behaviour of the legacy carriers. Setting expectations low avoids disappointment, I suppose.

airoli

New quote from LX Chief Commercial Officer in 20min.ch today:

Carpacchio

"möglichst rasch" = as soon as we deem we have enough liquidity, but for sure after the travel agents...

Tafflyer

I still think that the resources they are putting in to disputing all the chargebacks combined with the additional costs of the successful chargebacks, court and lawyers fees surely must make it worth their while to just refund the money anyway. I wonder if there is a more sinister background, like Lufthansa having taken any Swiss liquidity to keep the whole group afloat. Pure speculation, but this behaviour, as I have said before, is not in my experience the way that Swiss companies do business. Trust and relationships are foremost and this is destroying all that and will have a profound affect on the amount of business post COVID. I will be avoiding Lufthansa and Swiss wherever possible and they won't notice the few thousand per year that they no longer get from me, but I am alos sure there are thousands like me and that makes it millions.

warakorn

I can explain you the sinister background: LH Group is negotiating with the Governments, its staff, and its shareholders about a bailout/restructuring.
The key is -> the more cash the LH Group has in the bank, the better their negotiating position will be.

Fictitious Example: Carsten Spohr / Heinz Hermann Thiele are telling the German Government -> "If you do not give us a better deal (less shares, less control), we will file for bankcruptcy protection ("Schutzschirmverfahren"). With that we can fire as many employees, as we want. We do not need to refund anything. And we are not obliged to service our pension obligations anymore. And btw. we have EUR 5bn in the bank, that means we can still continue to operate."

This fictitious quote is summarizing the current situation. Hence, Spohr has instructed all LH Group airlines to keep the cash in-house at all costs - so he is able to make this threat.
Spohr has already hinted today that - if the shareholders were not to agree to the bailout package this Friday -> he wouldn't immediately file for bankcrupcty (he doesn't need to, because he has enough cash on hands), but he would return to the German government to discuss "options". Olaf Scholz and Peter Altmaier know already that Spohr is going to tell them something very similar, which I have written in my fictitious quote. We all know -> Merkel will in the end yield to Spohr and Thiele. And she will give out some candy to the SPD, so that they won't make any noise about it.

Yes, but it works the other way. In Switzerland the bosses of the airline, the government agencies (regulator), banks have all served in the Swiss military. They are one big network, helping each other, and making sure that no one from this network and hurting someone else in in this network -> "Eine Krähe hackt der andern kein Auge aus". And this is esp. true for the Swiss Armed Forces.

Over time most people will just forget about this and will tell themselves "I dont have the nerves to fight so I am relenting.".
They will accept that due to Coronavirus they lost EUR 5000 in ticket funds. At the same time they stick to their national carrier or preferred mileage earning airline -> and shell over over fresh cash for new tickets -> "Die Zeit heilt alle Wunden.". Thomas Klühr and Carsten Spohr know this.

IAN-UK

Maybe having lost one airline, they'd feel embarrassed about losing another one

GreatDane

Anyone know how quickly (as of today) tickets booked directly with swiss and cancelled by swiss are refunded?

Tafflyer

About 2 weeks after the letter from the court arrives that you are suing them.

warakorn

No, because LH then wants to a stay.

Tafflyer

Is that how desperate they have become to retain our cash now? Incredible. And the reason .... too much work the the one authorised person. You'll be charging them interest per day now, so just accept it.

GVA

I'm not sure how familiar you are with Swiss, but ever since Swiss was born from the ashes of Crossair/Swissair the attitude has been to disregard the customers and treat them in a condescending manner. Whether it be for EC261, fare errors or customer service/recovery. There is no honesty, transparency in the airline (and I say this as someone who has no refunds or bookings pending). Swiss just runs away from its obligations whilst showing hubris.

The airline really doesn't represent Switzerland in its ethos or business practices.

Tafflyer

This was exactly my point.

TEDisgone

A promise of what, exactly?
(Approaching 12 weeks waiting on a refund)