WN's new reservation system aggressively cancels duplicate bookings
#151
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Programs: AA, DL Gold Med , UA, AS, WN, HHonors Silver, Marriott, IHG Rewards Club, Hertz Presidents Circle
Posts: 323
This analogy does not hold water.
All bookings (even the so-called "fraudulent" ones) are paid with very real $$ and very real points (not "any coin"), at the exact price Southwest *chooses* to offer them for sale (in a public marketplace called a "website") when I book them.
When I ride the subway I pay $2, I can take the 1:00 train or the 1:10 train. Sometimes my "intent" on which train to take isn't certain until the last minute. It's my choice and I don't have to worry about massive price fluctuations or change fees. I hop on the train and pay my fair share ($2).
This used to more-or-less be the case on Southwest as well. On many Amtrak regional/commuter lines, it still is the case (a ticket is good for any train within 365 days). Does Amtrak consider this "fraud" in any way??...no, of course not.
The SWA rules have changed. The CoC was always there, but never enforced. Thus the new enforcement is, in fact, a defacto rule change. Their right, and yes, maybe we were "spoiled", but it is also my right to voice concern about a change that doesn't benefit consumers or the flying public.
What's the next anti-consumer change SWA will make?...
All bookings (even the so-called "fraudulent" ones) are paid with very real $$ and very real points (not "any coin"), at the exact price Southwest *chooses* to offer them for sale (in a public marketplace called a "website") when I book them.
When I ride the subway I pay $2, I can take the 1:00 train or the 1:10 train. Sometimes my "intent" on which train to take isn't certain until the last minute. It's my choice and I don't have to worry about massive price fluctuations or change fees. I hop on the train and pay my fair share ($2).
This used to more-or-less be the case on Southwest as well. On many Amtrak regional/commuter lines, it still is the case (a ticket is good for any train within 365 days). Does Amtrak consider this "fraud" in any way??...no, of course not.
The SWA rules have changed. The CoC was always there, but never enforced. Thus the new enforcement is, in fact, a defacto rule change. Their right, and yes, maybe we were "spoiled", but it is also my right to voice concern about a change that doesn't benefit consumers or the flying public.
What's the next anti-consumer change SWA will make?...
Most people don't engage in this type of overbooking, so this better enforcement of this rule will benefit more WN customers than it will hurt.
#152
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: austin, tx
Programs: Companion SWA, Plat Marriott, Diamond Hilton
Posts: 12
Pre-May 8 (not post) similar reservations now being canceled! (different city pair)
I thought that this was only happening on post May 9th booking.
I travel weekly on SWA for business (as I know most of you do too!) Due to my meeting schedule, I have several contingency city pairs booked on the same date.
I had a round trip AUS->CLE (April 9-12) cancel because I had a CLE->MKE booked on April 12th. This cancelled on 3/27 at midnight. I am unable to book the CLE->AUS fare due to the new "feature" of the reservation system. The round trip was booked before the one way, that's why it was cancelled.
The only recourse that I was told I had was to call customer service and file a complaint.
Please feel free to call 855-234-4654 and also place your complaint too.
I travel weekly on SWA for business (as I know most of you do too!) Due to my meeting schedule, I have several contingency city pairs booked on the same date.
I had a round trip AUS->CLE (April 9-12) cancel because I had a CLE->MKE booked on April 12th. This cancelled on 3/27 at midnight. I am unable to book the CLE->AUS fare due to the new "feature" of the reservation system. The round trip was booked before the one way, that's why it was cancelled.
The only recourse that I was told I had was to call customer service and file a complaint.
Please feel free to call 855-234-4654 and also place your complaint too.
#153
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
Actually this better enforcement of a long established rule DOES benefit other Southwest Airlines customers: customers who were not able to book (or book at a lower fare) because other passengers were hoarding seats — especially low cost seats — on multiple flights.
Most people don't engage in this type of overbooking, so this better enforcement of this rule will benefit more WN customers than it will hurt.
Most people don't engage in this type of overbooking, so this better enforcement of this rule will benefit more WN customers than it will hurt.
Enforcement of the long-standing rule levels the playing field. Others will see cheaper tickets and while there may be a few who jump ship, there will be others who now find cheaper fares on WN and start booking WN.
#154
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Blue Ridge, GA
Posts: 5,512
+1 - This is why it is a zero-sum game. For every person who thinks that they aren't hurting anyone, they are simply wrong. They are.
Enforcement of the long-standing rule levels the playing field. Others will see cheaper tickets and while there may be a few who jump ship, there will be others who now find cheaper fares on WN and start booking WN.
Enforcement of the long-standing rule levels the playing field. Others will see cheaper tickets and while there may be a few who jump ship, there will be others who now find cheaper fares on WN and start booking WN.
WN went from an open hand to a closed fist - no warning, no explanation. They chose not to maximize incremental revenue by using alerts and automated rules that allow tailoring the bad booking resolution process to specific needs.
I see little reason to admire them for that.
#155
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
Repeating a fabricated abstract doesn't make it true. Since other airlines market speculative booking options, an underlying benefit must exist.
WN went from an open hand to a closed fist - no warning, no explanation. They chose not to maximize incremental revenue by using alerts and automated rules that allow tailoring the bad booking resolution process to specific needs.
I see little reason to admire them for that.
WN went from an open hand to a closed fist - no warning, no explanation. They chose not to maximize incremental revenue by using alerts and automated rules that allow tailoring the bad booking resolution process to specific needs.
I see little reason to admire them for that.
A "hold" is a very specific form of reservation and there is a fee associated with it which covers the carrier's downside risk. It is also very short-term. Generally 24-72 hours and definitely not for duplicate or "impossible" bookings.
AA also used to use the "hold" as it was permitted to by DOT, in place of the 24-hour refund.
But, speculative - not. No carrier markets or uses it that way. Any consumer who uses it that way is wasting his money.
#156
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Blue Ridge, GA
Posts: 5,512
Of course it's speculative booking. It removes the seat from inventory - in FareLock's case for 72 hours to a week. The fee varies, but is nominal. Online travel agents popularized an even more prodigal Hold For Free option, though WN doesn't play in their sandbox.
The reservation is created, the flights are reserved for you and the space is being held, meaning no one else can have “your” space when you have a reservation on hold.
Gives you time to transfer miles or price shop. Small price to pay if your plans aren't certain or you think there may be a fare war leading to even lower fares.
The reservation is created, the flights are reserved for you and the space is being held, meaning no one else can have “your” space when you have a reservation on hold.
Gives you time to transfer miles or price shop. Small price to pay if your plans aren't certain or you think there may be a fare war leading to even lower fares.
#158
Moderator: Southwest Airlines, Capital One
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: California
Programs: WN Companion Pass, A-list preferred, Hyatt Globalist; United Club Lietime (sic) Member
Posts: 21,624
FareLock is an absolutely brilliant product. I use it to hold a second-best award seat while waiting for the first-best seat to become available.
#159
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: RNO
Programs: AA/DL/UA
Posts: 10,775
Of course it's speculative booking. It removes the seat from inventory - in FareLock's case for 72 hours to a week. The fee varies, but is nominal. Online travel agents popularized an even more prodigal Hold For Free option, though WN doesn't play in their sandbox.
The reservation is created, the flights are reserved for you and the space is being held, meaning no one else can have “your” space when you have a reservation on hold.
Gives you time to transfer miles or price shop. Small price to pay if your plans aren't certain or you think there may be a fare war leading to even lower fares.
The reservation is created, the flights are reserved for you and the space is being held, meaning no one else can have “your” space when you have a reservation on hold.
Gives you time to transfer miles or price shop. Small price to pay if your plans aren't certain or you think there may be a fare war leading to even lower fares.
This very expensive free version of "FareLock" is going away. Too bad!
#161
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 616
What you are doing not only sounds like, but is expressly prohibited by the Contract you agreed to with WN. The provision is cut & pasted below.
When you book two tickets which are impossible to fly, that means someone else may not. So, it is not just WN losing revenue and passing that loss on to others, but it is also someone else not getting home. Or, when you are looking for a flight and can't find one, it may be because someone else has done this to you.
So, hopefully this ends the cycle.
Multiple Reservations. Southwest prohibits multiple reservations for the same
Passenger departing from the same city on the same date. Furthermore, without
notice to the Passenger or purchaser, Southwest may cancel such reservations or
any other reservations that it believes, in its sole discretion, were made without
intent to travel.
When you book two tickets which are impossible to fly, that means someone else may not. So, it is not just WN losing revenue and passing that loss on to others, but it is also someone else not getting home. Or, when you are looking for a flight and can't find one, it may be because someone else has done this to you.
So, hopefully this ends the cycle.
Multiple Reservations. Southwest prohibits multiple reservations for the same
Passenger departing from the same city on the same date. Furthermore, without
notice to the Passenger or purchaser, Southwest may cancel such reservations or
any other reservations that it believes, in its sole discretion, were made without
intent to travel.
Given, that is the VERY RARE case, but very interesting nonetheless.
#162
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Blue Ridge, GA
Posts: 5,512
I thought that this was only happening on post May 9th booking.
I travel weekly on SWA for business (as I know most of you do too!) Due to my meeting schedule, I have several contingency city pairs booked on the same date.
I had a round trip AUS->CLE (April 9-12) cancel because I had a CLE->MKE booked on April 12th. This cancelled on 3/27 at midnight. I am unable to book the CLE->AUS fare due to the new "feature" of the reservation system. The round trip was booked before the one way, that's why it was cancelled.
The only recourse that I was told I had was to call customer service and file a complaint.
Please feel free to call 855-234-4654 and also place your complaint too.
I travel weekly on SWA for business (as I know most of you do too!) Due to my meeting schedule, I have several contingency city pairs booked on the same date.
I had a round trip AUS->CLE (April 9-12) cancel because I had a CLE->MKE booked on April 12th. This cancelled on 3/27 at midnight. I am unable to book the CLE->AUS fare due to the new "feature" of the reservation system. The round trip was booked before the one way, that's why it was cancelled.
The only recourse that I was told I had was to call customer service and file a complaint.
Please feel free to call 855-234-4654 and also place your complaint too.
Going from best-in-class to worst-in-class is dubbed a "new feature."
#163
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: MSP
Programs: Marriott LT Titanium, UA Silver (via Marriott)
Posts: 642
OK so this got me thinking. Let's say I live in LAX but have a morning meeting in SMF and then an afternoon meeting back at LAX and a morning meeting the following day at SFO, but I'm just going to fly out that night. Theoretically, I can't book both the 1st flight of the morning LAX-SMF and last flight of the night LAX-SFO.
Given, that is the VERY RARE case, but very interesting nonetheless.
Given, that is the VERY RARE case, but very interesting nonetheless.
#164
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: RNO
Programs: AA/DL/UA
Posts: 10,775
#165
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: RNO
Programs: AA/DL/UA
Posts: 10,775
I thought that this was only happening on post May 9th booking.
I travel weekly on SWA for business (as I know most of you do too!) Due to my meeting schedule, I have several contingency city pairs booked on the same date.
I had a round trip AUS->CLE (April 9-12) cancel because I had a CLE->MKE booked on April 12th. This cancelled on 3/27 at midnight. I am unable to book the CLE->AUS fare due to the new "feature" of the reservation system. The round trip was booked before the one way, that's why it was cancelled.
The only recourse that I was told I had was to call customer service and file a complaint.
Please feel free to call 855-234-4654 and also place your complaint too.
I travel weekly on SWA for business (as I know most of you do too!) Due to my meeting schedule, I have several contingency city pairs booked on the same date.
I had a round trip AUS->CLE (April 9-12) cancel because I had a CLE->MKE booked on April 12th. This cancelled on 3/27 at midnight. I am unable to book the CLE->AUS fare due to the new "feature" of the reservation system. The round trip was booked before the one way, that's why it was cancelled.
The only recourse that I was told I had was to call customer service and file a complaint.
Please feel free to call 855-234-4654 and also place your complaint too.
2. a. (2) Cancellation of Confirmed Reservations.
(v) Multiple Reservations. Southwest prohibits multiple reservations for the same Passenger departing from the same city on the same date. Furthermore, without notice to the Passenger or purchaser, Southwest may cancel such reservations or any other reservations that it believes, in its sole discretion, were made without intent to travel.
(v) Multiple Reservations. Southwest prohibits multiple reservations for the same Passenger departing from the same city on the same date. Furthermore, without notice to the Passenger or purchaser, Southwest may cancel such reservations or any other reservations that it believes, in its sole discretion, were made without intent to travel.