WN's new reservation system aggressively cancels duplicate bookings
Mar 10, 2017, 5:33 pm
#62
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
It's not as though this is a practice which is acceptable anywhere else in the commercial aviation world. It's just that people have beat the system on WN and now they can't.
Don't forget that the people making these fraudulent bookings are not only depriving WN of revenue, but other passengers of access to inventory and cheaper inventory at that.
The guy holding onto two seats, knowing that he won't use both is holding onto a seat that somebody else might want. This leads to overbooking which leads to more uncertainty and so on.
Mar 10, 2017, 8:46 pm
#63
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 5,813
Mar 10, 2017, 8:50 pm
#64
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 5,813
Mar 11, 2017, 12:16 am
#65
Moderator, Southwest Airlines and Choice Privileges
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 3,039
I totally get that double-booking ties up inventory and it was a loophole that we've all gotten comfortable exploiting. But how about these more friendly options for your more aggressive enforcement, SWA:
1. Program your computers to keep me from making these "duplicate" arrangements in the first place.
2. Send me an email saying, "Hey, you've screwed up, fix it or we'll fix it for you."
1. Program your computers to keep me from making these "duplicate" arrangements in the first place.
2. Send me an email saying, "Hey, you've screwed up, fix it or we'll fix it for you."
2) I've received an "Oops, did you mean to make two similar reservations?" Email from a rental car company. That is definitely a much more customer-friendly approach than what SWA is doing now.
Co-terminals, of course, but even close-by airports that are not co-terminals (e.g. AUS/SAN, MCO/TPA, SAN/SNA) should count as duplicate reservations. Really, if done correctly, even airports a continent apart could be duplicate reservations if physically impossible to fly both. SEA-LAX and LGA-MCO with departures within roughly ten hours of each other would be impossible combinations.
Mar 11, 2017, 1:03 am
#66
Moderator, Southwest Airlines and Choice Privileges
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 3,039
Mar 14, 2017, 5:49 am
#67
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Nashville, TN
Programs: WN Nothing and spending the half million points from too many flights, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 8,043
I am not traveling much and dropped by to see what is going on. I have a rare trip next week that is highly variable on the return. In the past, I would have bought consecutive days. It looks like I will fall back to the "First Change is to BS" plan and make it more flexible.
Mar 14, 2017, 8:23 am
#68
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,130
Same day. Different depart. Same destination -- auto canc?
Wow this could mess things up. With weather, business commitments it makes it challenging. With this new plan does it mean I will need to book two different carriers? Booking flights for November. Don't know if I will start in CT or NYC area. In past would be able. Will I only be able to book one flight per day?
TIA
TIA
Mar 14, 2017, 10:09 am
#69
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: USA
Programs: AC SE100K, F9 100k, NK Gold, UA *S, Hyatt Glob, Bonvoy Titanium
Posts: 5,198
Wow this could mess things up. With weather, business commitments it makes it challenging. With this new plan does it mean I will need to book two different carriers? Booking flights for November. Don't know if I will start in CT or NYC area. In past would be able. Will I only be able to book one flight per day?
TIA
TIA
Fact is, if you ever book a United, American, Delta ticket the money is as good as GONE if you change your mind. (on a big $ ticket maybe "only" $200 penalty). Same goes for low cost carriers like Frontier and Spirit. only reason people are worried and freaking out is that Southwest's system was too easy to misuse/exploit in the past.
Mar 14, 2017, 4:01 pm
#70
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,130
Got it
Questions like this illustrate how easy going WN used to be, and how many on this forum have no experience booking the other guys.
Fact is, if you ever book a United, American, Delta ticket the money is as good as GONE if you change your mind. (on a big $ ticket maybe "only" $200 penalty). Same goes for low cost carriers like Frontier and Spirit. only reason people are worried and freaking out is that Southwest's system was too easy to misuse/exploit in the past.
Fact is, if you ever book a United, American, Delta ticket the money is as good as GONE if you change your mind. (on a big $ ticket maybe "only" $200 penalty). Same goes for low cost carriers like Frontier and Spirit. only reason people are worried and freaking out is that Southwest's system was too easy to misuse/exploit in the past.
Want to make sure I have this right, can I still book one flight a day? We can manage that
Mar 15, 2017, 11:39 pm
#71
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 120
Actually, American does identify duplicate bookings when you try to book duplicate flights. Their system will not allow you to book the second flight until you've cancelled the first.
With some of "the other guys" (UA, AA), you have more flexibility (lower change fees) with points bookings than with revenue bookings. With DL, no changes are allowed to points bookings within 72 hours of flight time.
With some of "the other guys" (UA, AA), you have more flexibility (lower change fees) with points bookings than with revenue bookings. With DL, no changes are allowed to points bookings within 72 hours of flight time.
Mar 17, 2017, 1:58 pm
#72
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: RNO
Programs: AA/DL/UA
Posts: 10,776
Wow this could mess things up. With weather, business commitments it makes it challenging. With this new plan does it mean I will need to book two different carriers? Booking flights for November. Don't know if I will start in CT or NYC area. In past would be able. Will I only be able to book one flight per day?
TIA
TIA
Mar 17, 2017, 4:00 pm
#73
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: SNA
Programs: Bonvoy LTTE/AMB, AmEx Plat, National EE, WN A-List, CLEAR+, Covid-19
Posts: 4,967
Here's the thing- I stick with WN because I know that if I need to make changes, I won't get screwed. I don't think I've been on another carrier in going on 3 years now, even on OPM. If they were just like everyone else, I'd spread my travel out among everyone else- and that's $$ that WN wouldn't be getting. I'm sure I'm by no means the only such traveler.
Mar 17, 2017, 5:21 pm
#74
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
If you are a passenger taking 2-3 seats out of inventory and then only using 1 of them, you are a passenger WN, just like the others won't mind losing.
The question is, where will you go? I can't think of a carrier which lets its passengers make fraudulent bookings. The fact is, WN never did. It just did not have the technical capacity to catch it. Now it does.
The problem everyone is trying to get around is paying a fare which is readily available, just higher, but which will always be available unless the flight is sold out.
Pray for another recession and maybe those good old days will come back !
The question is, where will you go? I can't think of a carrier which lets its passengers make fraudulent bookings. The fact is, WN never did. It just did not have the technical capacity to catch it. Now it does.
The problem everyone is trying to get around is paying a fare which is readily available, just higher, but which will always be available unless the flight is sold out.
Pray for another recession and maybe those good old days will come back !
Mar 19, 2017, 2:50 pm
#75
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 12
I booked two round trips for Memorial Day weekend. One from OAK-DEN-OAK and one SFO-DEN-SFO. I hadn't decided which one to keep because ... so many reasons ... airport shuttle schedule (at both ends), dogsitting schedules, drive vs bus, etc.
I was stunned this morning when I received a cancellation notice for the SFO-DEN-SFO trip. I called and spent an hour on the phone sorting it out. I was told:
1. "The computer sees OAK and SFO as the same, so it identified this as a duplicate." Um, NOT. OAK and SFO are definitely not the same, any more than Burbank, Long Beach, Ontario, Orange County are the same as LAX.
2. "When the computer decides which one to cancel, it will cancel the more expensive one." Um, NOT - I ultimately canceled the OAK-DEN-OAK version and after applying the refunds to my reinstated SFO trip, ended up with $50 in travel credits because the SFO option was cheaper
I totally get that double-booking ties up inventory and it was a loophole that we've all gotten comfortable exploiting. But how about these more friendly options for your more aggressive enforcement, SWA:
1. Program your computers to keep me from making these "duplicate" arrangements in the first place.
2. Send me an email saying, "Hey, you've screwed up, fix it or we'll fix it for you."
I'd have been happy with either one of those options. But arbitrarily cancelling a round-trip, and choosing the wrong one? NOT ACCEPTABLE!!!
I was stunned this morning when I received a cancellation notice for the SFO-DEN-SFO trip. I called and spent an hour on the phone sorting it out. I was told:
1. "The computer sees OAK and SFO as the same, so it identified this as a duplicate." Um, NOT. OAK and SFO are definitely not the same, any more than Burbank, Long Beach, Ontario, Orange County are the same as LAX.
2. "When the computer decides which one to cancel, it will cancel the more expensive one." Um, NOT - I ultimately canceled the OAK-DEN-OAK version and after applying the refunds to my reinstated SFO trip, ended up with $50 in travel credits because the SFO option was cheaper
I totally get that double-booking ties up inventory and it was a loophole that we've all gotten comfortable exploiting. But how about these more friendly options for your more aggressive enforcement, SWA:
1. Program your computers to keep me from making these "duplicate" arrangements in the first place.
2. Send me an email saying, "Hey, you've screwed up, fix it or we'll fix it for you."
I'd have been happy with either one of those options. But arbitrarily cancelling a round-trip, and choosing the wrong one? NOT ACCEPTABLE!!!
Anyway, going to burn up my remaining SWA points and cancel my SWA credit card. I see no reason to seek out and fly Southwest if there is nothing that distinguishes them from the other majors. Delta, United, etc typically have better fares, better flight options (redyes available), and "bags fly 'free'" means nothing to a light packer like me. I used to also look to Southwest first -- this new policy/enforcement is a shame and they are losing a dedicated customer. I never considered it a "loophole", but rather a benefit that made Southwest the best airline in the sky.