Majuki

Any option to pay with JCB (or Discover card)? I'm confused considering the third country currency. That's automatic grounds for a chargeback. However, since to seem to be familiar with those who operate the website, would it be possible to inquire with the website operator about how the website processes payments?

percysmith

Or Amex?

Im a new user

Thanks! I'll try that.
Well, the prices are in yen on the website, but when paying, it suddenly says "12345円 (543.21XYZ)" and you're charged the amount in currency XYZ. There's a statement on the website that you must pay in the currency of the country where the card was issued. I have an e-mail from the customer service confirming this and also stating that I need to use a card issued in Japan if I wish to pay in JPY. Sounds exactly like DCC.

Would it really be permitted for a Japanese website to use a merchant account in, say, the United States? VISA's chargeback reason code #76 seems to cover this: "The merchant didn’t deposit the sales receipt in the same country as the transaction."

Unfortunately, I don't have an AMEX card to test with.

NYCFlyer10001

Yeah, that's definitely DCC, unless this is some gigantic site that has operations in other countries. In that case, they can say the transaction actually occurred in the other country (because the website transferred it there for billing purposes.)

Airbnb, for example, does that.

percysmith

Does that ever work? We in HK can never make Visa Hong Kong Limited (our local Visa subsidiary) do anything.

https://forum.hongkongcard.com/forum...w/11430?page=6 #58
https://forum.hongkongcard.com/forumSE/show/5972?page=1 #2

tmiw

I know Visa's been pushing people to their issuers for other types of complaints so I wouldn't be surprised if that link does nothing now. Which is a shame because I'm not sure my issuers would know what to do if I were to, say, complain that a ticket machine wouldn't take my chip and signature card despite supposedly being required to.

percysmith

Visa is always very merchant friendly in my book. Mastercard's more cardholder friendly (or at least, responsive) to me.

tmiw

Depends on the issue. Visa isn't quite as merchant friendly as US merchants would like with regard to debit routing policies, for example.

Anyway, I've never received a response to complaints made via their websites for what it's worth.

sethweinstein

Mixed results on Menorca this week from this US-based visitor -- just now saw the Spain note in the wiki (thanks for that!).

Hotel San Miguel courteously asked, "You want to be charged in euros, right?" My first experience with their stellar service.

One restaurant server made the DCC choice for me -- and even signed the terminal! I complained and she said she couldn't reverse the transaction, but she ran it again without DCC and refunded me in cash for the first transaction (€14.20). So I still have a net charge that's the higher, DCC amount, but I've essentially MS-ed it, so assuming it codes correctly on the Sapphire Reserve as a restaurant I've paid 62 cents for an extra 47 UR points -- sort of an even deal.

At tonight's dinner I didn't catch the terminal in time and the slip printed in USD. I asked it to be reversed, but the server said every time she tries to choose euros at the DCC prompt the terminal cancels the transaction (Caixa Bank terminal). We'll dispute it, but has anyone heard that explanation?

I'd say about half of merchants have been offering me a choice and respecting it.

Seth

Majuki

I've never heard of the terminal canceling the transaction. DCC is definitely prevalent in Spain. I would say the part about the terminal canceling the transaction isn't true. Perhaps the staff don't know how to opt out properly. I would say you'd have grounds to dispute the transaction the waitress signed for you.

Let us know how the dispute goes.

Remember the phrase: Si hay una opción, pulse el botón por euros.

BruceyBonus

Many of the terminals in Spain are touch screen. Often the DCC is in a green box and non-DCC in a red box. This implies (to me anyway) that you have to press the red button on the keypad to opt-out of DCC. This is not the case. You actually have to press the red box on the screen. Many staff seem unaware of this.


With a US card, I assume it is not a chipped card? My experience improved massively since Spain started accepting EMV cards, since you can keep control of the terminal until the transaction is complete. Something not possible when the card is swiped.

Majuki

This happened to us in Madrid the first time around with a BBVA terminal. I pressed cancel and it cancelled the transaction. It turned out one had to press on the screen.

Most US cards are likely to have chips now, so the good thing is the terminal will usually come to the table.

sethweinstein

Thanks for this and thanks to others who have replied -- very helpful. It was a chipped card, but it seems what you wrote above is probably what happened. Since then I've seen a couple of terminals where pressing the red box on the screen is a matter of jamming a fingernail in just the right way. Two merchants have done it, understanding what was going on, but it wasn't easy to press.

Seth

Happy

So I thought I was going to do this for the team and disputed a small DCC amount happened in Dubai on the Chase CSR card. Details of the process from dispute filed on 02/08, to the merchant contest and the resolution proposed by Chase on 04/14 , are posted in this thread.

I thought the resolution would be final. I was NAIVE. NOTHING promised by Chase dispute dept rep over the phone and in the subsequent letter dated the same date of the recorded phone call she made, has ever happened. Instead, the full disputed amount was rebilled on 04/18 (reflected in the reduced Available Limit but not showed up as posted at the time I left for a cruise). The promised credit of $40 has never showed up on the card. We left for a 16 days cruise from 04/19 and did not have internet access until 05/05. That was when I first accessed Chase online and saw Chase had blotched the whole thing. We did not return home until 05/25. 2 statement cycles have gone by, the mistake remains.

This is no longer a simple DCC issue, but a serious lack of customer service and the issue of how poorly Chase handles disputes (of any kind).

There is a new thread in Chase forum started by a poster who had disputed with Chase a $2200 hospital charge without signature authorization that also was DCCed. So I posted my experiences in that thread.

See posts on the aforementioned thread where I provided more details and the frustrating experiences in trying to get the dispute handler to return my multiple calls to no avail.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/28368470-post9.html

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/28384480-post17.html

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/28390089-post19.html

At the end, it is still the US Bank absorb the DCC dispute amounts based on what has happened on my dispute and the dispute by the starter of the Chase dispute thread. The merchants learn they can be defiant and the US bank would then cite with the merchants when the amount is big, or give customer some good will to close the dispute. It is completely up to the cardholders to fend for themselves when traveling overseas to be extra vigilant on the DCC scam.

In the case of the small amounts of DCC, just call your banks and ask to speak to a supervisor / manager and complain. The higher up folks have the discretionary power to issue credit in small amount while the front line reps either have no clue of the issue or not being enpowered to do so.

DONT bother to file a formal dispute on small amount. If the amount is big, follow up the filing IN WRITING by sending a letter to the address listed at the back of your card statement or find that info online if your account is paperless. Only then, you could have legal protection on your dispute.

Finally, Chase has shown that it takes the side of the Merchants when the merchants contest the dispute (in the case reported in the thread) or handled disputes in a very cardholder-unfriendly way as demonstrating in my experience and others experiences reported in that thread.

Always remember, ONLY Dispute in Writing, would provide you the legal protection. That is why the banks try to make telephone and online disputes look easy so you are deceived to use those mechanisms and then forfeit your legal protection.

Happy

Poland is DCC country on every POS but almost all cashiers know how to opt you out once you emphasize to them using the key word "Polish" when they swipe your card.

Their English generally is poor or non-existent, but they all seem to understand when customer said "Polish" when handing out the card, the customer wanted the local currency.

Sometimes the device to swipe and the device to choose currency is 2 different devices. Witnessed something like this happened at a train ticket window. Saw the lady punched on a different device than the one she swiped my card. Good though that lady chose PLN for me. Not so at another train station where we used on 2 consecutive days and where the woman was particularly rude. She was super annoyed the day before when we gave a 100 PLN for the train tickets. The next afternoon I decided to use card, thinking it worked at train ticket window before - this time this rude woman DCCed me. Then she shrugged on my question. I truly believe she did it on purpose. For $0.20 difference, it has to be LOL moment.

The other time was at a McD inside a train station. The cashier did not know what to do with CC payment. A supervisor was called. She processed the payment very swiftly. I also noticed she swiped the card on one device and punched on another device. Unfortunately this time she chose the DCC button. I was never asked the whole time. But I think it is an innocent mistake in McD's case.

At a big Carrefour I did not know what to do after I used the correct red button on the stand alone little device (the same one that I saw in other places where the cashier did for me) to opt out, as the screen displayed another message that was quite confusing. Instead of going further I showed it to the cashier and told her "Polish". She immediately understood and punched the red button again TWICE. Receipt was in PLN.

At restaurants , the handheld device by the table handled both payment process and options on conversion. No need for separate devices. All wait staff understood what "Polish" meant - far far more effective than saying "please bill in Zloty" as I tried to do during our first couple days.
We ate many times at North Fish, a Poland only fast food chain with very good seafoods, in the food courts of shopping malls in different Poland cities. Again, the word "Polish" works.

The DCC mark up in Poland is 3%, versus the 5% experienced in Dubai earlier this year in January.

Buying train/bus tickets on the machines through out Poland never encounter DCC option and never being DCCed. No PIN was ever needed either, despite it shows how to insert the chip card. In fact the purchase experiences from ticket machines in Poland by far being the most smooth among all our travels in Europe in all the years. I am truly impressed. This is very good because the fares always seem to have cents involved. Using CC to purchase makes it so much easier when it comes to either finding the changes or getting back a bunch of changes and to keep track of them.

At Vilnius, Lithuania we ate at a chain Asian fusion restaurant called Manami. They seem to only locate in shopping centers. We ate at 2 different locations, with one super convenient being just directly across from the Radisson Blu we stayed at. The bill was always in Euro even I forgot to tell the waitress one time. Excellent foods and dirt cheap by the way.
We had lunch at another restaurant near the Town Hall and the bill also came in Euro.
Entrance fee at Trakai Castle was also in Euro. No DCC.

Did not use card in Tallinn where we only bought a day pass on the public transportation with cash as the only spend.

At Helsinki the only spend was to pay the Finnair bus to the airport. The driver processed the payment with CSR, in Chip + Signature fashion. No DCC.

Will return to South Africa in August. IIRC there was no DCC on our last 2 trips (2015 and 2016). Hopefully this time would be the same.