Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC)

Old Jun 14, 2017, 8:29 am
  #151  
 
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Originally Posted by TerryK
Seriously? What does Australian government have to gain by promoting DCC?
The merchant providers convinced them that the big evil networks were stifling competition in currency conversion by having restrictions on DCC...
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Old Jun 14, 2017, 8:39 am
  #152  
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Originally Posted by AllieKat
They also want to avoid lawsuits. The Australian government has sued and WON to prevent the networks from banning or interfering with DCC.
I noticed a marked uptick in DCC in Australia in August 2016 versus my previous trip in November 2015. I hadn't seen DCC at all from my first trip in 2010, so I was caught off guard seeing the prompts. Fortunately, there seemed to be options on the terminals, and there was no language barrier.
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Old Jun 15, 2017, 2:51 pm
  #153  
 
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Barcelona is horrible with the DCC... almost every single transaction at restaurants and hotels offered either EUR or USD. I can't imagine how much the banks are earning from this rip-off.
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Old Jun 15, 2017, 5:46 pm
  #154  
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Originally Posted by TravelinSperry
Barcelona is horrible with the DCC... almost every single transaction at restaurants and hotels offered either EUR or USD. I can't imagine how much the banks are earning from this rip-off.
Were you able to opt out?
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Old Jun 15, 2017, 6:08 pm
  #155  
 
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Originally Posted by Majuki
Were you able to opt out?
Yes. Although I saw some tourists say USD at checkout in one of the hotels. It's one thing to be able to opt-out. Quite another to not understand what a rip-off it is. I know (thanks to FTers!) but so many don't. The practice should be outlawed.
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Old Jun 16, 2017, 10:41 am
  #156  
 
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Huh. Had a weird experience with Chase recently - got DCC'd (despite receipt selecting HKD, the resto charged in USD) and so went to Chase to dispute the charge. Instead of letting me dispute it, it just auto-credited the amount to me and said "These credits are permanent and will appear on your next billing statement."

So, I guess for certain amounts below a threshold, Chase is just choosing to eat the cost now instead?
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Old Jun 16, 2017, 2:03 pm
  #157  
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Originally Posted by kawaii
Huh. Had a weird experience with Chase recently - got DCC'd (despite receipt selecting HKD, the resto charged in USD) and so went to Chase to dispute the charge. Instead of letting me dispute it, it just auto-credited the amount to me and said "These credits are permanent and will appear on your next billing statement."

So, I guess for certain amounts below a threshold, Chase is just choosing to eat the cost now instead?
How much was the amount? Easier than filming a full Reason Code 76 chargeback.
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Old Jun 16, 2017, 11:08 pm
  #158  
 
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Originally Posted by kawaii
Huh. Had a weird experience with Chase recently - got DCC'd (despite receipt selecting HKD, the resto charged in USD) and so went to Chase to dispute the charge. Instead of letting me dispute it, it just auto-credited the amount to me and said "These credits are permanent and will appear on your next billing statement."

So, I guess for certain amounts below a threshold, Chase is just choosing to eat the cost now instead?
A few years ago, Chase did this for me on a >$1000 hotel bill. Now that is customer service!
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Old Jun 17, 2017, 6:59 am
  #159  
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Originally Posted by kawaii
Huh. Had a weird experience with Chase recently - got DCC'd (despite receipt selecting HKD, the resto charged in USD) and so went to Chase to dispute the charge. Instead of letting me dispute it, it just auto-credited the amount to me and said "These credits are permanent and will appear on your next billing statement."
You must have different HK culinary preferences from Happy http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/credi...l#post27941214

Which restaurant is this anyway and any clues about who is the acquirer?
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Old Jun 17, 2017, 7:57 pm
  #160  
 
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Originally Posted by Majuki
How much was the amount? Easier than filming a full Reason Code 76 chargeback.
It was under 100 HKD (I recall it being roughly US$12)?

Originally Posted by percysmith
You must have different HK culinary preferences from Happy http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/credi...l#post27941214

Which restaurant is this anyway and any clues about who is the acquirer?
It was an Indian restaurant in Central called Rang Mahal. No clues on the CC receipt as to the acquirer.
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Old Jun 20, 2017, 7:43 am
  #161  
 
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Confront at hotel? (China)

I've been in China a few days and no one seems to be honoring my DCC opt-out preferences. I'm taking pictures of all my signed receipts showing RMB selected.

One was at a Crowne Plaza, where I'm staying. I charged a RMB 188 dinner to my Chase Sapphire Reserve and it posted (it has already posted) with exactly the offered DCC-ed amount of USD 28.77 instead of the correct amount of $27.61. I'll still be there for a few days. Should I try to confront them about it, and if so, how should I go about that?

I know I can contact Chase, but I feel as if I'm going to come back with around 10 receipts that all have to be re-charged.

And speaking of Chase, is there any way to see on the Chase site the conversion details? Most other banks' sites seem to show a charge of, say, $27.61, but then show in the details that it corresponds to RMB 188.

Thanks,
Seth
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Old Jun 20, 2017, 8:54 am
  #162  
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Originally Posted by sethweinstein
I've been in China a few days and no one seems to be honoring my DCC opt-out preferences. I'm taking pictures of all my signed receipts showing RMB selected.

One was at a Crowne Plaza, where I'm staying. I charged a RMB 188 dinner to my Chase Sapphire Reserve and it posted (it has already posted) with exactly the offered DCC-ed amount of USD 28.77 instead of the correct amount of $27.61. I'll still be there for a few days. Should I try to confront them about it, and if so, how should I go about that?

I know I can contact Chase, but I feel as if I'm going to come back with around 10 receipts that all have to be re-charged.

And speaking of Chase, is there any way to see on the Chase site the conversion details? Most other banks' sites seem to show a charge of, say, $27.61, but then show in the details that it corresponds to RMB 188.

Thanks,
Seth
Hello Seth,

The best option for resolving DCC is when you are still at the merchant. I don't know if getting a reprint of the receipt is possible in Mainland China, but this is a trick one can do in Hong Kong to confirm whether or not there was DCC.

If you hear the line, "Check the box next to RMB, and it will be RMB!" it is almost a certainty that you will be hit with DCC in China. Ask how your currency preference can magically transfer from the signed receipt to the terminal with no further input from the cashier.

The best option at this point is raising the issue with Chase. The choice, of course, is up to you, but I personally would try to fight every one of these charges for a Reason Code 76 changeback. Merchants in Mainland China are among the most non-compliant with DCC in the world. Other locations on the DCC Wall of Shame are Poland and India.

With Chase, there's no way to see the exchange rate until you get the statement. However, it is possible to calculate what the amount should have been. Chase uses the Visa exchange rate on the posting date of the transaction, which you can find here. For example, the Visa USD/CNY exchange rate on June 19th was 0.146865. 188 CNY without DCC would therefore post on June 19th as $27.61.

Chase also uses the Visa exchange rate for the pending amount based on the date of the transaction. Seeing a charge of $28.77 implies that the DCC markup was 4.2%.

I've noticed other issuers, such as AmEx (not subject to DCC) or Fidelity (my card of choice for getting cash overseas) use the transaction date exchange rates. This means that DCC is 100% a worse option since the amount will always be higher than the exchange rate used. In the case of Chase, there could be very limited circumstances where DCC might be favorable, but one would not expect the USD/other currency exchange rate to increase above the DCC spread in a few days. The only example that comes to mind was when the Swiss Franc rapidly appreciated a few years ago.
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Old Jun 20, 2017, 9:27 am
  #163  
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Originally Posted by Majuki
if you hear the line, "Check the box next to RMB, and it will be RMB!" it is almost a certainty that you will be hit with DCC in China. Ask how your currency preference can magically transfer from the signed receipt to the terminal with no further input from the cashier.
Ask cashier to reprint (重印 chongyin) "for your RMB record".
But it's likely the PRC cashier can't/won't fix it (especially if you're not a putonghua speaker with a china mobile phone and oondles of time to stand over the cashier) so it's photo slip and chargeback
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Old Jun 20, 2017, 9:42 am
  #164  
 
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Originally Posted by Majuki
Ask how your currency preference can magically transfer from the signed receipt to the terminal with no further input from the cashier.

The best option at this point is raising the issue with Chase.
Thanks for the replies. So I guess they just regularly ignore all signed preferences ticked on the receipts. Well, I'm still at the Crowne Plaza and there are native English speakers on the staff. Is it worth talking to them about it? Tell them that I plan to initiate a chargeback?

I did notice that in Spain the currency option is on the terminal and in China it's on the printed receipt. But I seem to recall it being on the receipt in the UAE and my choice was respected.

If, in the future, I get a reprint, then that forces them to actively put my preference into the terminal, and that's how to have a better shot at compliance?

I do intend to fight all DCC instances, but I feel kinda bad to put Chase through that.

Seth
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Old Jun 20, 2017, 9:47 am
  #165  
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In china it is national policy to DCC. They have a competing product (unionpay) and they really don't like visa as a company:

Even if the crowne staff are 100% on your side, there may be nothing that can be done. Crazy stuff I and others did to get out of DCC in china:

- run dummy transactions on an expatriate merchant's terminal and discovering there's only a 3 second "whack a mole" window to opt out

- stand over a st Regis receptionist for 30 minutes while she gets the accountant to come back at 11pm and unlock the terminal

- someone had the merchant file a paper "EDC" form to the acquirer to opt out

---

Don't feel bad about causing Chase trouble/financial harm. Maybe chase will sue visa one day over all the reason code 76s it is eating. Until then we can only hope.

Last edited by percysmith; Jun 20, 2017 at 9:54 am
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