Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC)
#151
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,537
#152
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,192
I noticed a marked uptick in DCC in Australia in August 2016 versus my previous trip in November 2015. I hadn't seen DCC at all from my first trip in 2010, so I was caught off guard seeing the prompts. Fortunately, there seemed to be options on the terminals, and there was no language barrier.
#153
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Miami, FL
Programs: UA 1MM, AA Plat, Marriott LT Titanium, Hyatt Glob, IHG ♢ Amb, Hilton ♢, Hertz Pres
Posts: 6,035
Barcelona is horrible with the DCC... almost every single transaction at restaurants and hotels offered either EUR or USD. I can't imagine how much the banks are earning from this rip-off.
#154
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,192
#155
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Miami, FL
Programs: UA 1MM, AA Plat, Marriott LT Titanium, Hyatt Glob, IHG ♢ Amb, Hilton ♢, Hertz Pres
Posts: 6,035
#156
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: MPC, Marriott, Hyatt
Posts: 407
Huh. Had a weird experience with Chase recently - got DCC'd (despite receipt selecting HKD, the resto charged in USD) and so went to Chase to dispute the charge. Instead of letting me dispute it, it just auto-credited the amount to me and said "These credits are permanent and will appear on your next billing statement."
So, I guess for certain amounts below a threshold, Chase is just choosing to eat the cost now instead?
So, I guess for certain amounts below a threshold, Chase is just choosing to eat the cost now instead?
#157
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,192
Huh. Had a weird experience with Chase recently - got DCC'd (despite receipt selecting HKD, the resto charged in USD) and so went to Chase to dispute the charge. Instead of letting me dispute it, it just auto-credited the amount to me and said "These credits are permanent and will appear on your next billing statement."
So, I guess for certain amounts below a threshold, Chase is just choosing to eat the cost now instead?
So, I guess for certain amounts below a threshold, Chase is just choosing to eat the cost now instead?
#158
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Hawai'i Nei
Programs: Au: UA, Marriott, Hilton; GE
Posts: 7,252
Huh. Had a weird experience with Chase recently - got DCC'd (despite receipt selecting HKD, the resto charged in USD) and so went to Chase to dispute the charge. Instead of letting me dispute it, it just auto-credited the amount to me and said "These credits are permanent and will appear on your next billing statement."
So, I guess for certain amounts below a threshold, Chase is just choosing to eat the cost now instead?
So, I guess for certain amounts below a threshold, Chase is just choosing to eat the cost now instead?
#159
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Non-top tier Asia Miles member
Posts: 20,091
Huh. Had a weird experience with Chase recently - got DCC'd (despite receipt selecting HKD, the resto charged in USD) and so went to Chase to dispute the charge. Instead of letting me dispute it, it just auto-credited the amount to me and said "These credits are permanent and will appear on your next billing statement."
Which restaurant is this anyway and any clues about who is the acquirer?
#160
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: MPC, Marriott, Hyatt
Posts: 407
Originally Posted by percysmith
You must have different HK culinary preferences from Happy http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/credi...l#post27941214
Which restaurant is this anyway and any clues about who is the acquirer?
Which restaurant is this anyway and any clues about who is the acquirer?
#161
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: NYC
Posts: 419
Confront at hotel? (China)
I've been in China a few days and no one seems to be honoring my DCC opt-out preferences. I'm taking pictures of all my signed receipts showing RMB selected.
One was at a Crowne Plaza, where I'm staying. I charged a RMB 188 dinner to my Chase Sapphire Reserve and it posted (it has already posted) with exactly the offered DCC-ed amount of USD 28.77 instead of the correct amount of $27.61. I'll still be there for a few days. Should I try to confront them about it, and if so, how should I go about that?
I know I can contact Chase, but I feel as if I'm going to come back with around 10 receipts that all have to be re-charged.
And speaking of Chase, is there any way to see on the Chase site the conversion details? Most other banks' sites seem to show a charge of, say, $27.61, but then show in the details that it corresponds to RMB 188.
Thanks,
Seth
One was at a Crowne Plaza, where I'm staying. I charged a RMB 188 dinner to my Chase Sapphire Reserve and it posted (it has already posted) with exactly the offered DCC-ed amount of USD 28.77 instead of the correct amount of $27.61. I'll still be there for a few days. Should I try to confront them about it, and if so, how should I go about that?
I know I can contact Chase, but I feel as if I'm going to come back with around 10 receipts that all have to be re-charged.
And speaking of Chase, is there any way to see on the Chase site the conversion details? Most other banks' sites seem to show a charge of, say, $27.61, but then show in the details that it corresponds to RMB 188.
Thanks,
Seth
#162
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,192
I've been in China a few days and no one seems to be honoring my DCC opt-out preferences. I'm taking pictures of all my signed receipts showing RMB selected.
One was at a Crowne Plaza, where I'm staying. I charged a RMB 188 dinner to my Chase Sapphire Reserve and it posted (it has already posted) with exactly the offered DCC-ed amount of USD 28.77 instead of the correct amount of $27.61. I'll still be there for a few days. Should I try to confront them about it, and if so, how should I go about that?
I know I can contact Chase, but I feel as if I'm going to come back with around 10 receipts that all have to be re-charged.
And speaking of Chase, is there any way to see on the Chase site the conversion details? Most other banks' sites seem to show a charge of, say, $27.61, but then show in the details that it corresponds to RMB 188.
Thanks,
Seth
One was at a Crowne Plaza, where I'm staying. I charged a RMB 188 dinner to my Chase Sapphire Reserve and it posted (it has already posted) with exactly the offered DCC-ed amount of USD 28.77 instead of the correct amount of $27.61. I'll still be there for a few days. Should I try to confront them about it, and if so, how should I go about that?
I know I can contact Chase, but I feel as if I'm going to come back with around 10 receipts that all have to be re-charged.
And speaking of Chase, is there any way to see on the Chase site the conversion details? Most other banks' sites seem to show a charge of, say, $27.61, but then show in the details that it corresponds to RMB 188.
Thanks,
Seth
The best option for resolving DCC is when you are still at the merchant. I don't know if getting a reprint of the receipt is possible in Mainland China, but this is a trick one can do in Hong Kong to confirm whether or not there was DCC.
If you hear the line, "Check the box next to RMB, and it will be RMB!" it is almost a certainty that you will be hit with DCC in China. Ask how your currency preference can magically transfer from the signed receipt to the terminal with no further input from the cashier.
The best option at this point is raising the issue with Chase. The choice, of course, is up to you, but I personally would try to fight every one of these charges for a Reason Code 76 changeback. Merchants in Mainland China are among the most non-compliant with DCC in the world. Other locations on the DCC Wall of Shame are Poland and India.
With Chase, there's no way to see the exchange rate until you get the statement. However, it is possible to calculate what the amount should have been. Chase uses the Visa exchange rate on the posting date of the transaction, which you can find here. For example, the Visa USD/CNY exchange rate on June 19th was 0.146865. 188 CNY without DCC would therefore post on June 19th as $27.61.
Chase also uses the Visa exchange rate for the pending amount based on the date of the transaction. Seeing a charge of $28.77 implies that the DCC markup was 4.2%.
I've noticed other issuers, such as AmEx (not subject to DCC) or Fidelity (my card of choice for getting cash overseas) use the transaction date exchange rates. This means that DCC is 100% a worse option since the amount will always be higher than the exchange rate used. In the case of Chase, there could be very limited circumstances where DCC might be favorable, but one would not expect the USD/other currency exchange rate to increase above the DCC spread in a few days. The only example that comes to mind was when the Swiss Franc rapidly appreciated a few years ago.
#163
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Non-top tier Asia Miles member
Posts: 20,091
But it's likely the PRC cashier can't/won't fix it (especially if you're not a putonghua speaker with a china mobile phone and oondles of time to stand over the cashier) so it's photo slip and chargeback
#164
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: NYC
Posts: 419
I did notice that in Spain the currency option is on the terminal and in China it's on the printed receipt. But I seem to recall it being on the receipt in the UAE and my choice was respected.
If, in the future, I get a reprint, then that forces them to actively put my preference into the terminal, and that's how to have a better shot at compliance?
I do intend to fight all DCC instances, but I feel kinda bad to put Chase through that.
Seth
#165
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Non-top tier Asia Miles member
Posts: 20,091
In china it is national policy to DCC. They have a competing product (unionpay) and they really don't like visa as a company:
Even if the crowne staff are 100% on your side, there may be nothing that can be done. Crazy stuff I and others did to get out of DCC in china:
- run dummy transactions on an expatriate merchant's terminal and discovering there's only a 3 second "whack a mole" window to opt out
- stand over a st Regis receptionist for 30 minutes while she gets the accountant to come back at 11pm and unlock the terminal
- someone had the merchant file a paper "EDC" form to the acquirer to opt out
---
Don't feel bad about causing Chase trouble/financial harm. Maybe chase will sue visa one day over all the reason code 76s it is eating. Until then we can only hope.
Even if the crowne staff are 100% on your side, there may be nothing that can be done. Crazy stuff I and others did to get out of DCC in china:
- run dummy transactions on an expatriate merchant's terminal and discovering there's only a 3 second "whack a mole" window to opt out
- stand over a st Regis receptionist for 30 minutes while she gets the accountant to come back at 11pm and unlock the terminal
- someone had the merchant file a paper "EDC" form to the acquirer to opt out
---
Don't feel bad about causing Chase trouble/financial harm. Maybe chase will sue visa one day over all the reason code 76s it is eating. Until then we can only hope.
Last edited by percysmith; Jun 20, 2017 at 9:54 am