Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC)

Old Aug 31, 2017, 11:49 pm
  #226  
 
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Jordan immigration

To enter Jordan you can buy a visa on arrival at the airport, but you must pay in Jordanian dinars. For years the simple scam was to have an ATM and an exchange counter in the immigration area, both of which offered lousy rates.

I guess the government wanted in on the action, so they now take credit cards directly at the immigration counter. The officer refused to let me see the terminal, and I knew he was charging me in USD even though I said, "Charge me in dinars, right?" I never signed the slip but I did get a photo of it. As expected, my copy had the USD choice ticked and indicated a markup of 5.99% on the exchange rate. Should be easy to dispute.

Seth
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Old Sep 1, 2017, 12:28 am
  #227  
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Originally Posted by sethweinstein
I guess the government wanted in on the action, so they now take credit cards directly at the immigration counter. The officer refused to let me see the terminal, and I knew he was charging me in USD even though I said, "Charge me in dinars, right?" I never signed the slip but I did get a photo of it. As expected, my copy had the USD choice ticked and indicated a markup of 5.99% on the exchange rate. Should be easy to dispute.
If you don't intend to visit Jordan again or don't mind getting SSSSed on your next visit then sure chargeback their xxx.

That reminds me to check my USD and/or VND cash on hand next month before heading to HCMC next month - visa payments must be cash (I don't have a passport valid for e-visa)
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Old Sep 1, 2017, 1:23 am
  #228  
 
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Originally Posted by sethweinstein
To enter Jordan you can buy a visa on arrival at the airport, but you must pay in Jordanian dinars. For years the simple scam was to have an ATM and an exchange counter in the immigration area, both of which offered lousy rates.

I guess the government wanted in on the action, so they now take credit cards directly at the immigration counter. The officer refused to let me see the terminal, and I knew he was charging me in USD even though I said, "Charge me in dinars, right?" I never signed the slip but I did get a photo of it. As expected, my copy had the USD choice ticked and indicated a markup of 5.99% on the exchange rate. Should be easy to dispute.

Seth
Huh, I was there this May (crossing over from Eilat). They asked if I wanted the charge in dinars or dollars, I said dinars and got charged in dinars, nothing shady. Same thing in a couple of other places, a souvenir store and a restaurant. Used PIN-preferring cards throughout, but the terminals never displayed the amount.
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Old Sep 1, 2017, 2:16 am
  #229  
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Originally Posted by dmapr
Huh, I was there this May (crossing over from Eilat). They asked if I wanted the charge in dinars or dollars, I said dinars and got charged in dinars, nothing shady. Same thing in a couple of other places, a souvenir store and a restaurant. Used PIN-preferring cards throughout, but the terminals never displayed the amount.
I went in July 2010, but I didn't notice any DCC back then. Admittedly, we didn't do too many credit card purchases. In fact, the only card purchases we had were the hotels plus rental car.

I don't remember any ATM fees at the time, and my friend had 50 dinars prior to arrival, which was sufficient at the time for 2 tourist visas.
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Old Sep 1, 2017, 3:16 am
  #230  
 
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Originally Posted by percysmith
If you don't intend to visit Jordan again or don't mind getting SSSSed on your next visit then sure chargeback their xxx.
The guy just had a stack of charge slips. I hardly think they're going to match up the receipt to the name on the passport, and then the passport itself. And by the time I visit Jordan again I will likely have a new passport anyway.

Quite possible Chase will just issue the credit anyway without following through.

But yes, good to think of the consequences. Have a good trip to HCMC!

Seth
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Old Sep 1, 2017, 9:21 am
  #231  
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Originally Posted by sethweinstein
The guy just had a stack of charge slips. I hardly think they're going to match up the receipt to the name on the passport, and then the passport itself. And by the time I visit Jordan again I will likely have a new passport anyway.

Quite possible Chase will just issue the credit anyway without following through.

But yes, good to think of the consequences. Have a good trip to HCMC!

Seth
It seems like one way to avoid this is by purchasing the Jordan Pass in advance, which includes the visa fee.

Likely Chase would not bother with a Reason Code 76 chargeback and issue a courtesy credit. 6% is a high premium for a credit card payment, especially for a currency that's fixed to the USD.
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Old Sep 1, 2017, 2:00 pm
  #232  
 
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Originally Posted by Majuki
It seems like one way to avoid this is by purchasing the Jordan Pass in advance, which includes the visa fee.

Likely Chase would not bother with a Reason Code 76 chargeback and issue a courtesy credit. 6% is a high premium for a credit card payment, especially for a currency that's fixed to the USD.
I would have gotten a Jordan Pass but I had only one day in the country. Good way around it, though.

Didn't even realize USD and JOD were linked -- thanks.

Seth
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Old Sep 4, 2017, 3:11 pm
  #233  
 
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A very pleasant DCC experience at the Zleep Airport Hotel in Copenhagen. The clerk at the reception has clearly mentioned it from the start, the choice was always mine and he suggested that in most cases it is better to be charged in local currency. Also, it is impossible to proceed with the payment without making a choice first and the choice is very clear (press 1 to be charged $36, press 2 to be charged DKK 198, there's no default). As you can see, the penalty for using DCC is quite steep, so the guy was spot on.
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Old Sep 10, 2017, 5:18 pm
  #234  
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I could have sworn I told PayPal to not DCC me a long time ago but apparently it forgot all of those settings (and I had to Google to find the non-obvious place in the settings to disable it, too). If I had not looked at the eBay checkout page closely enough it would have been a 4% markup on top of xe.com's GBP-USD rates.

Originally Posted by emilio911
PayPal and Ebay have now stopped to worry about DCC (see https://www.paypal-community.com/t5/.../920926/page/8 ) . They are now charging people in their home currency without asking.
On the US site, it's still available if you go to Profile > Payments > My Preapproved Payments > Set Available Funding Sources > Conversion Options. eBay seems to pick this up too as there's no specific setting there that I was able to find.
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Old Sep 11, 2017, 9:02 am
  #235  
 
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Originally Posted by tmiw

On the US site, it's still available if you go to Profile > Payments > My Preapproved Payments > Set Available Funding Sources > Conversion Options. eBay seems to pick this up too as there's no specific setting there that I was able to find.
Thanks for the tip! So on that page the only thing I have checked is a credit card, yet every time I use Paypal to pay for an eBay item it defaults to the bank account. This page also suggests that these settings apply to "authorized/recurring payments to merchants". Basically I'm wondering if I should be on the lookout for a yet another knob to twist when I'm making one-off payments, any idea?
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Old Sep 11, 2017, 9:23 am
  #236  
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Originally Posted by dmapr
Thanks for the tip! So on that page the only thing I have checked is a credit card, yet every time I use Paypal to pay for an eBay item it defaults to the bank account. This page also suggests that these settings apply to "authorized/recurring payments to merchants". Basically I'm wondering if I should be on the lookout for a yet another knob to twist when I'm making one-off payments, any idea?
I'd consider my eBay purchase yesterday to be a one-off and changing the setting I mentioned worked for that. Also, I don't think it's possible to avoid DCC if you pay with a bank account, which is probably why it defaults to that.
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Old Sep 25, 2017, 10:11 pm
  #237  
 
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Originally Posted by generikz
But HSBC keeps calling it "DCC FEE" in their statements.
At least I found the policy online: https://www.hsbc.com.sg/1/PA_ES_Cont...chargestnc.pdf

Dynamic Currency Conversion

Dynamic currency conversion (DCC) is a service offered at selected ATMs located overseas and used by selected merchants and service providers (whether located overseas or online). DCC converts a foreign currency transaction into the currency of a card account at the point of sale.
Foreign currency transactions - If your foreign currency card transaction is converted to the currency of the card account via DCC, you acknowledge and agree that the process of conversion and the exchange rates applied will be determined by the relevant ATM operator, merchant or dynamic currency conversion service provider, as the case may be.

Transactions in the currency of your card account - If you enter into a transaction in the currency of your card account with a merchant (including online merchants) that routes its payment processing outside Singapore (and in the case of US dollar cards, outside the United States and Singapore), you acknowledge and agree that:
(i) this will be treated as a foreign currency transaction by Visa, MasterCard or such other relevant card scheme association (as the case may be); and
(ii) that the process of converting the foreign currency transaction to the currency of your card account and the exchange rates applied will be determined by the merchant.

In addition, with effect from 22 May 2017, all Dynamic Card Currency transactions described in above will be subject to an additional charge of 1% of the transaction amount, which is imposed by Visa, MasterCard or such other relevant card association (as the case may be).
They just effectively made the USD CC I hold in Singapore useless since I have no way to know where the payment will be processed to reject it or oppose the fee.

Just bought a DELTA plane ticket in USD, for flight in the USA with my USD Card and... DELTA is pushing its payments in Belgium (to avoid repatriating profits to the USA I suppose) and I had to pay the extra 1% again.

I'll simply cancel the card and use Paypal USA... and probably that's what HSBC is secretly hoping for since this USD CC hasn't been offered to new customers for years it seems.

Or maybe first thing I should run the question by MAS first to fully close that chapter? That could be interesting.

Julien
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Old Sep 25, 2017, 11:23 pm
  #238  
 
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Originally Posted by generikz
At least I found the policy online: https://www.hsbc.com.sg/1/PA_ES_Cont...chargestnc.pdf



They just effectively made the USD CC I hold in Singapore useless since I have no way to know where the payment will be processed to reject it or oppose the fee.

Just bought a DELTA plane ticket in USD, for flight in the USA with my USD Card and... DELTA is pushing its payments in Belgium (to avoid repatriating profits to the USA I suppose) and I had to pay the extra 1% again.

I'll simply cancel the card and use Paypal USA... and probably that's what HSBC is secretly hoping for since this USD CC hasn't been offered to new customers for years it seems.

Or maybe first thing I should run the question by MAS first to fully close that chapter? That could be interesting.

Julien
This is common in the US where you pay the same fee whether you're getting currency conversion or not for foreign transactions.

I consider it very unfair as unlike a foreign exchange fee, a reasonable person can't be expected to know the country the merchant will process their transaction in.
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Old Sep 25, 2017, 11:26 pm
  #239  
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I have HSBC HK's HKD and USD cards too
We don't have FTF/cross-border/so-called "DCC" fees for now, only foreign currency conversion fees (which the USD cards neatly sidestep)
But what happens in SG may find its way to that bank' HK operations:

Originally Posted by generikz
They just effectively made the USD CC I hold in Singapore useless since I have no way to know where the payment will be processed to reject it or oppose the fee.
We built a list of where transactions will be processed https://www.hongkongcard.com/forumSE/show/11968

But that's HK oriented. Not good for USD charging

Originally Posted by generikz
I'll simply cancel the card and use Paypal USA... and probably that's what HSBC is secretly hoping for since this USD CC hasn't been offered to new customers for years it seems.
Then you're going to get hit with HSBC SG's foreign currency conversion charge every time, unless you use a non-HSBC card for PayPal

I'd pick my fights. Besides, unless it'll cost me real money, I'd keep the card just to annoy them.

Originally Posted by generikz
Or maybe first thing I should run the question by MAS first to fully close that chapter? That could be interesting.
Doubt it'll work. In the case of HK issuer banks tacking on cross-border fees for real DCC, all HKMA did was to warn people it may happen.
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Old Sep 26, 2017, 2:10 am
  #240  
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Originally Posted by AllieKat
I consider it very unfair as unlike a foreign exchange fee, a reasonable person can't be expected to know the country the merchant will process their transaction in.
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I agree. I've been burned in the past by BA back before 0% FTFs were a common feature on cards. As a recent example, Mrs. Majuki wanted to purchase something from Superdry's US website. Now, these prices are in USD with no currency conversion happening. We scoured the website before ordering trying to figure out if we should use my CSR at 1x (0% FTF) or her CFU 1.5x (3% FTF). We chose the former, which turned out to be the correct choice:




Qantas did this too, and the transaction shows up as originating in Mascot. Qantas also offered DCC, which I posted about the other month on this thread.

A foreign exchange fee is understandable, but part of me thinks issuers moved to foreign transaction fees because 1) they were losing out to DCC and 2) airline websites (and others) were processing dollar denominated transactions internationally.
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