Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC)

Old Mar 9, 2017, 8:52 pm
  #76  
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Originally Posted by Majuki
I thought Avis is true DCC?
Originally Posted by percysmith
That's what I mean - they will present the transaction as if it is billed in your card currency all along. That is the conversion I fear now.
I dont know how many times I tried to tell folks that Avis does NOT DCC you on their initial quote that always translates to your currency - the rate they use is within the market rate at the time, no more than 0.01 to 0.02% difference.

You guys are acting like Pavlov's dogs that the moment you saw your currency you automatically assumed you are DCCed.

In Avis case, it is NOT.

In fact we have had the experiences that at the end even though we opted to be billed in local currency, somehow it is still billed in USD as quoted - And the USD amount 1) identical to what is quoted, 2) almost 4% LOWER than the market translation at the time from EU to USD due to EU shot up by almost 5% between the couple months from our reservation to our actual rental.

Use your head instead of your emotion here -
1) there is 0 DCC in Avis whether it is in the quoted USD in the reservation because I checked XE and found it was just the straight market rate translation, NO PADDING.
2) At the time of rental, by the EU amount our bill should be 5% more than what our reservation quoted, when translated to USD at market rate. Yet, the final bill was identical to the USD quoted.

I always chose local currency when making an Avis reservation, before the final confirmation page, I captured the costs shown in local currency because once you hit reserve, the final page would automatically converted to USD.

Yet, for about doz rentals done in EU the past 3 years, I have NOT had a single DCC as long as you have opted out in your profile. The final bills are ALWAYS very close to what are initially quoted. What are initially quoted are ALWAYS very close to the MARKET RATE shown on XE at the time of reservation.
On top of that, the reservation $ would CHANGE any time you pull it up because the underlying currency translation rate to USD changes. Sometimes it goes higher sometimes it goes lower - but always very close to what XE shows.

Believe what you want to believe. Avis does not double DCC you regardless you see the USD on your reservation. If you opt out in your profile, you will not be DCCed at final billing. This is based on our international rentals which are 100% Avis because we found Avis has the best rates when using AWD - beat any of the other major rentals among Hertz, National, SIXT, Enterprise, etc. Of course if you can "negotiate" a rate from Europcar to beat the quotes you get from Avis, and prepay that reservation, that would be cheaper than booking with Avis using the AWD (HHonors works the best in case you wonder.)
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Old Mar 10, 2017, 1:12 am
  #77  
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Happy

I apologise. Avis should no longer be included in the list of "bad" multi-currency conversions in conjunction with Airbnb. I've forgotten they've cleaned up: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/avis-...l#post22540803

(I decided against "unreservedly" apologising because they have some "form" in the past, prior to the March 2014 data point above)

Other "good" multi-currency conversion I've encountered include:
- hotel consolidators including hotels.com, Agoda and Expedia (you get a choice in which currency to bill in anyway and the rate is very close to wholesale)
- Cathay Pacific phone bookings (the RMB rate for ex-PVG bookings is better than any we can get from any bank in HK, or Visa's (via Alipay)
- Starbucks card (that's not true multi-currency conversion but the rate they used to deduct non-local beverages is again very close to wholesale)

But anyway, Airbnb's still unavoidable Airbnb's sneaky 3% FX fee - deceitful and infuriating, and now unavoidable?

Another to name and shame is Global Blue tax refunds (mandatory refund in your home currency (in my case HKD), less 3-5% fee) http://www.hongkongcard.com/index.ph...ow/6982?page=2 #14
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Old Mar 10, 2017, 3:30 am
  #78  
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I'm a heavy user of car rentals in Europe with my US cards (previously CSP, now CSR), and this is the second time in one year I ran into DCC issues. Once it was Europcar in MUC who tried to DCC me at the counter and I caught it instantly, and now this case in Dublin. Avis, Sixt, Hertz and Europcar are usually no issue at all in Europe in over 30 rentals in the same time frame.
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Old Apr 14, 2017, 7:50 pm
  #79  
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Chase way in handling DCC dispute

This thread is surprisingly quiet!

Here is the update on my dispute of an involuntary DCC by a restaurant at Dubai.

Please refer to the previous post to learn the details, as it is too long to quote here.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/27882900-post47.html

1) Got a call from Chase about 2 weeks ago - the lady left message but when I called back a few times, never got a call back.

2) Finally called CSR number and the rep said the dispute dept has left a note on the account. He transferred me to the proper dept which turned out to be in Philippines! I have a very hard time to understand what the Philippina talked about as she has very heavy accent. The only thing I could figure out is, the merchant contests the dispute. Asked to be transfer to a US-based rep. Got transferred but after 15 min still no human pick up the phone I gave up. The Philippina did mention a letter was mailed to me explaining the thing, and I should get it in 5 business days.

3) Letter or rather, a package, did not arrive until almost 2 weeks later. Covering letter is dated March 30. It arrived me on April 12, with a deadline to respond on April 13!
There is a covering letter, a form for me to fill out whether I accept the original billing, or continue to dispute the charge. MANY pages of print out from the Acquirer's details. A page of the Acquirer's statement on they are willing to accept the "Arbitration Value" of the difference between non-DCCed amount and the DCCed amount - in this case, $49.45 - $47.10 = $2.35.

4) I wrote down the reason to dispute one more time, and stated that I just wanted the non-DCCed amount to be billed. Or the credit of the 5% additional amount caused by the DCC. Already sealed the envelop and put on stamp but haven't mailed it yet thinking no matter what, it would already pass the 04.17 deadline anyway...

5) Called Chase number one more time and left a message again.

6) Chase rep called this morning around 9:30am. Rep was based in Columbus, Ohio. (The form to send back is to send to Delaware). Rep said she was out of office the last 2 weeks hence the delay. In any case, she said it is impossible to make the merchant to rebill in AED. Therefore, Chase offers me $40 credit and only rebill me $9.45 to settle the dispute. I said this was not Chase fault but the merchant's. Not really right but I gather this would be easier for Chase to take care. She said yes. I thank her for Chase customer service but mentioned about the 2 weeks lag in receiving the package. She said, yeah, many customers have complained about the mailing delays... She added, no need to mail the form back, the recorded phone call is sufficient. I will receive a letter to confirm the resolution Meanwhile she is processing the credit and rebill. The items would show up online in 24 to 48 hours.
This afternoon I have seen the available credit has changed to reflect the $40 credit and $9.45 rebill, even though the actual line items have not shown up un activities yet

7) Bottom Line - it is still the US banks eat the DCC disputes, not the merchants. It might be easier in the future just call to dispute the difference as online, there is no space to fill out the reason when the dispute amount is small. Chase online only gives the space to fill out reasons when doing the full amount dispute - but that has proven to cause A LOT OF WORK for the US Banks. While the Acquirer still gets away with it.
A friend has a DCC dispute on a Citi card. The front line rep has no clue on what the friend is talking about. He asked for a supervisor who immediately understands. The supervisor gives $9.xx credit - the overcharged amount caused by DCC, immediately over the phone.
So from now on I would handle DCC dispute over the phone instead.

8) The response from the merchant is not really from the merchant, but from the Acquirer, under the Acquirer's letter head. This makes me wonder - WHO benefits from the DCC? May be it is the Acquirer, not the merchant. I dont know.
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Old Apr 14, 2017, 7:51 pm
  #80  
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Originally Posted by oliver2002
I'm a heavy user of car rentals in Europe with my US cards (previously CSP, now CSR), and this is the second time in one year I ran into DCC issues. Once it was Europcar in MUC who tried to DCC me at the counter and I caught it instantly, and now this case in Dublin. Avis, Sixt, Hertz and Europcar are usually no issue at all in Europe in over 30 rentals in the same time frame.
We rent exclusively with Avis primarily due to the AWD we used always gives us the best rates. Also as AA elite, we get additional bonus on each rental, no code required.

I am glad to see you post your experiences as no one here believes me that Avis does not DCC you as long as you have opted out in your Avis profile, despite Avis ALWAYS only show you the USD quote on your reservation if you are based in US, regardless where you rent. I always used local currency during the reservation process, and make a screen shot of the page before hitting the RESERVE button - once it goes to the confirmation of reservation, the currency always switches to USD. But there is NO DCC!
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Old Apr 15, 2017, 12:46 am
  #81  
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Originally Posted by Happy
Here is the update on my dispute of an involuntary DCC by a restaurant at Dubai.

...


7) Bottom Line - it is still the US banks eat the DCC disputes, not the merchants. It might be easier in the future just call to dispute the difference as online, there is no space to fill out the reason when the dispute amount is small. Chase online only gives the space to fill out reasons when doing the full amount dispute - but that has proven to cause A LOT OF WORK for the US Banks. While the Acquirer still gets away with it.
A friend has a DCC dispute on a Citi card. The front line rep has no clue on what the friend is talking about. He asked for a supervisor who immediately understands. The supervisor gives $9.xx credit - the overcharged amount caused by DCC, immediately over the phone.
So from now on I would handle DCC dispute over the phone instead.

8) The response from the merchant is not really from the merchant, but from the Acquirer, under the Acquirer's letter head. This makes me wonder - WHO benefits from the DCC? May be it is the Acquirer, not the merchant. I dont know.
Thanks for the follow up, Happy. For the package from Chase with all of the notes from the acquirer, it seems like Chase contested the charge. What was the reason given for contesting? Were they pursuing a Reason Code 76 chargeback (incorrect currency transaction code), or was there other language?

It certainly is possible to rerun the transaction in local currency, so what the Chase rep told you was incorrect. In fact, there have been a couple of cases in the past of Chase doing exactly that. Regardless, you weren't out any money on this one, and I'm glad you pursued the chargeback even if the outcome is less than ideal. Perhaps with enough complaints from customers and chargebacks to the acquirers the issuers and acquirers will take some action.

As far as this transaction goes, Chase issued a courtesy credit, so Chase ate the loss. The acquirer is the one who makes out well here, but certainly the chargeback inconvenienced them. From the merchant's perspective, it doesn't matter whether your charge was in dirhams or dollars. They're getting paid in dirhams. The only thing they potentially stand to lose by a chargeback and rerunning in local currency is whatever their cut is for performing DCC. Usually the acquirer and merchant split the profits on the spread between the DCC offer and the real exchange rate.
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Old Apr 15, 2017, 8:15 pm
  #82  
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Originally Posted by Majuki
Thanks for the follow up, Happy. For the package from Chase with all of the notes from the acquirer, it seems like Chase contested the charge. What was the reason given for contesting? Were they pursuing a Reason Code 76 chargeback (incorrect currency transaction code), or was there other language?

It certainly is possible to rerun the transaction in local currency, so what the Chase rep told you was incorrect. In fact, there have been a couple of cases in the past of Chase doing exactly that. Regardless, you weren't out any money on this one, and I'm glad you pursued the chargeback even if the outcome is less than ideal. Perhaps with enough complaints from customers and chargebacks to the acquirers the issuers and acquirers will take some action.

As far as this transaction goes, Chase issued a courtesy credit, so Chase ate the loss. The acquirer is the one who makes out well here, but certainly the chargeback inconvenienced them. From the merchant's perspective, it doesn't matter whether your charge was in dirhams or dollars. They're getting paid in dirhams. The only thing they potentially stand to lose by a chargeback and rerunning in local currency is whatever their cut is for performing DCC. Usually the acquirer and merchant split the profits on the spread between the DCC offer and the real exchange rate.
Tell you the truth, I dont care what Chase rep told me is correct or incorrect. The bottom line is, it costs Chase far more to do this rebill thing, then just simply issues a credit for the difference if the dispute is handled over the phone instead of doing the "formal" dispute of the whole thing by reversal and rebill.

Someone has already said it in this thread - it is ALWAYS the US Banks absorb the losses caused by DCC disputes.

At the end, Chase actually gives me $40 credit for the trouble I caused them, while the Acquirer totally got away from this. I should pay $47.10 had the merchant did not DCC.

Remember, I was not going to dispute this $2.35 difference, but decided to do it "for the team" so we at least learned something HOW the US bank would handle such a dispute.

Honestly I do not have patience to read thru 11 pages of the information on the transaction - 5 pages are Transaction Details, 6 pages are Visa Resolve Online. The Acquirer's brief note did mention Code 76. So indeed Chase used the code to "contest" the charge.

Below is what the Acquirer Certificate says - I am typing this as exactly what it says

Dear Issuer.
Your raised dispute under RC 76 Incorrect currency
Your Centre raised for full amount of USD49.45 whereas the charged amount was AED173.00 which is equivalent to USD47.10 only (USD49.45-USD47.10) having a difference of USD2.35.
We are willing to accept the difference amount of USDf2.35.
Please raise pre-arbitration for USD2.35.
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Old Apr 15, 2017, 10:30 pm
  #83  
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Originally Posted by Happy
Someone has already said it in this thread - it is ALWAYS the US Banks absorb the losses caused by DCC disputes.

At the end, Chase actually gives me $40 credit for the trouble I caused them, while the Acquirer totally got away from this. I should pay $47.10 had the merchant did not DCC.
Not always. Fellow poster cxua had a successful reason code 76 chargeback about 2 years ago with Chase. Chase did do the correct thing in this case as well, as evidence by the reason code 76 below. So, at the very least, the acquirer was inconvenienced by having to respond to the chargeback.

Below is what the Acquirer Certificate says - I am typing this as exactly what it says

Dear Issuer.
Your raised dispute under RC 76 Incorrect currency
Your Centre raised for full amount of USD49.45 whereas the charged amount was AED173.00 which is equivalent to USD47.10 only (USD49.45-USD47.10) having a difference of USD2.35.
We are willing to accept the difference amount of USDf2.35.
Please raise pre-arbitration for USD2.35.
What likely happened here is that the acquirer balked at the chargeback, Chase took the matter to arbitration, and then the acquirer offered the above difference. The acquirers are the ones who initiate the problem, and many merchants are complicit when it comes to DCC likely because they're getting a cut.
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Old Apr 15, 2017, 11:34 pm
  #84  
 
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Originally Posted by Majuki
Not always. Fellow poster cxua had a successful reason code 76 chargeback about 2 years ago with Chase. Chase did do the correct thing in this case as well, as evidence by the reason code 76 below. So, at the very least, the acquirer was inconvenienced by having to respond to the chargeback.
I have successfully reason code 76 chargeback twice with Chase with two different merchants who forced DCC. I followed the detailed charge back instructions written by Majuki or Percysmith (can't remember)

In both cases, the amount was under 10 dollars difference but that wasn't the point.
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Old Apr 16, 2017, 1:30 am
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Originally Posted by cxua
I have successfully reason code 76 chargeback twice with Chase with two different merchants who forced DCC. I followed the detailed charge back instructions written by Majuki or Percysmith (can't remember)

In both cases, the amount was under 10 dollars difference but that wasn't the point.
Chase wiped off a $1000+ charge when a hotel gave me a receipt in Yuan and charged me in dollars. I did not have to resort to verbal gymnastics. Just showed them the evidence and away went the charge.
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Old Apr 16, 2017, 8:05 pm
  #86  
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Originally Posted by Majuki
Not always. Fellow poster cxua had a successful reason code 76 chargeback about 2 years ago with Chase. Chase did do the correct thing in this case as well, as evidence by the reason code 76 below. So, at the very least, the acquirer was inconvenienced by having to respond to the chargeback.

What likely happened here is that the acquirer balked at the chargeback, Chase took the matter to arbitration, and then the acquirer offered the above difference. The acquirers are the ones who initiate the problem, and many merchants are complicit when it comes to DCC likely because they're getting a cut.
Chase asked the Acquirer to rebill, if it followed my request. How it actually is handled, is not my business and not my interest to find out.

Originally Posted by 747FC
Chase wiped off a $1000+ charge when a hotel gave me a receipt in Yuan and charged me in dollars. I did not have to resort to verbal gymnastics. Just showed them the evidence and away went the charge.
Totally agree. Just tell Chase what happened. However Chase handled it, it is NOT worth the time and energy to find out.

In your case, the Chinese hotel / acquirer probably never contests the chargeback from Chase. Once the window to contest the chargeback is passed, the merchant/acquirer has to take the chargeback.

In my case, the merchant NEVER gives me an option to choose the currency. Not even a slip to sign so I could deface it. All I got was a slip that had AED173 AND USD49.45, despite I told them to bill in AED when handed the waiter the CC.
The merchant/acquirer contested the dispute. There is no date on the Acquirer Certificate. So no idea when the Contest happened, nor how the process Chase had gone thru to chargeback.

The only thing known to me is, Chase eventually absorbs $40 of the dispute while the amount of dispute is only $2.35 in all reality.

Why Chase decides not to rebill a $47.10 after it has already issued a $49.45 temporary credit is beyond me.

A day after the final follow up call from Chase, I saw my available credit was reduced by $9.45. That was on Thursday afternoon. However, instead of seeing $9.45 adjustment charge, the available credit no longer reflects the $9.45. So the account is back to the state after Chase issued the temporary credit - the full $49.45 is reversed immediately after the filing of dispute.

I just hope that little $9.45 would show up before we leave on a long trip next Wed. I want to pay everything on the CSR before the statement closes on Apr 24 because we would be on a cruise during the next 16 days, and may not have secured internet access even after the cruise when we travel thru Eastern Europe. New charges after Apr 24 would be fine as we would be home shortly after the May 24 statement close. But I really dont want to log in Chase to pay bill when we are on the road in Eastern Europe!
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Old Apr 17, 2017, 6:01 am
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Originally Posted by Happy
I just hope that little $9.45 would show up before we leave on a long trip next Wed. I want to pay everything on the CSR before the statement closes on Apr 24 because we would be on a cruise during the next 16 days, and may not have secured internet access even after the cruise when we travel thru Eastern Europe. New charges after Apr 24 would be fine as we would be home shortly after the May 24 statement close. But I really dont want to log in Chase to pay bill when we are on the road in Eastern Europe!
Just pay it now and if it doesn't show up I'm sure you'll find a way to spend an extra $9.45 in the next billing cycle
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Old Apr 17, 2017, 9:56 pm
  #88  
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Originally Posted by dmapr
Just pay it now and if it doesn't show up I'm sure you'll find a way to spend an extra $9.45 in the next billing cycle
Chase website would NOT let me pay an amount above what is currently outstanding, including any pending. It grayed out the statement balance because it was already paid. It wont let me put in an amount that is more than the total of currently posted plus pending.
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Old Apr 18, 2017, 5:34 am
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I recall being able to "transfer" an arbitrary amount from my checking/savings to my credit card account at any point, but it does require that you have a checking/savings with them. But you should still be able to send a check, no?
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Old Apr 18, 2017, 6:12 am
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I got DCCed by STA Travel UK last month. I did a booking over the phone, paying part of my Contiki tour (in GBP) by reciting the credit card numbers. Two days later, when the charges posted, they were much higher than I expected so I requested the merchant to show me the credit card receipts. As I expected, I got DCCed! The prevailing rate was 1 GBP = 1.25 USD and the receipt noted 1 GBP = 1.29xx USD hence a 3% commission fee. It was irritating considering that STA Travel already impose a 2% fee for credit card payments (which I agreed to).

I complained as I never agreed to the DCC amount. The travel agent who processed my payment had no idea she ran the transaction in USD instead of GBP so I told her that I wanted to speak to her manager. In the end, they offered to refund the amount I was overcharged. As I still had an outstanding payment due, I requested the amount I was overcharged to be deducted from my outstanding balance.
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