Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC)

Old Jun 3, 2017, 10:45 am
  #121  
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Just curious is Paywave popular in Poland? It's a good getout of DCC where available.
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Old Jun 3, 2017, 10:53 am
  #122  
 
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Originally Posted by percysmith
Just curious is Paywave popular in Poland? It's a good getout of DCC where available.
Yes, you have Paywave or Paypass and contactless payment is very common. Basically everyone uses it these days. I've tried UK cards as an experiment and it always defaults to PLN where I've used contactless payment.
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Old Jun 3, 2017, 11:17 am
  #123  
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Originally Posted by Happy
This is no longer a simple DCC issue, but a serious lack of customer service and the issue of how poorly Chase handles disputes (of any kind).
I'll concede that you had a bad experience here where promises fell short, but there have been multiple reports of successful DCC claims with Chase. I agree though that it's best to get everything in writing. There's an arbitration address that would force them to respond in writing. These people have far more discretion than a customer service rep repeating off of a script.

Originally Posted by Happy
Poland is DCC country on every POS.
Poland is as bad as China, if not worse, for DCC. Of course, I would encourage you to contest the charges... They see enough non-Zloty denominated cards to know what's up there, so I wouldn't give them the benefit of the doubt. Make no mistake about it. It's just like Ireland where they will tell you, "Oh. It's just for your reference." "There's no way to opt out." "I don't know what you're talking about."

If contactless payments are viable for small purchases, I would default to those. Apple and Android Pay are incapable of DCC as well, right? Is there a limit for contactless transactions in Poland? For instance, Estonia had a limit of 10. (klashn and I tried higher purchase amounts, but the transactions failed. I've run into similar limitations in the UK, but fortunately DCC is completely discretionary there without any language barrier.

Originally Posted by Happy
Did not use card in Tallinn where we only bought a day pass on the public transportation with cash as the only spend.

At Helsinki the only spend was to pay the Finnair bus to the airport. The driver processed the payment with CSR, in Chip + Signature fashion. No DCC.
Fellow FlyerTalk members klashn and terryversay and I were in Helsinki and Tallinn for a total of 5 days. We made numerous purchases in both places, including hotels, department stores, airport shops, transit, taxis, museums, gift shops, and restaurants. We charged everything and didn't see anything except euros being charged. While I can't say there's no DCC, we certainly didn't see anything resembling it.
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Old Jun 3, 2017, 12:54 pm
  #124  
 
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The limit for contactless payment in Poland is 50PLN.

Apple Pay is sadly absent.
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Old Jun 3, 2017, 2:17 pm
  #125  
 
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Originally Posted by yurtripper
The limit for contactless payment in Poland is 50PLN.

Apple Pay is sadly absent.
Apple Pay works at most (but not all) contactless terminals.
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Old Jun 3, 2017, 5:15 pm
  #126  
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Originally Posted by Majuki
I'll concede that you had a bad experience here where promises fell short, but there have been multiple reports of successful DCC claims with Chase. I agree though that it's best to get everything in writing. There's an arbitration address that would force them to respond in writing. These people have far more discretion than a customer service rep repeating off of a script.
I think you got it wrong about the DCC claim.

The DCC claim was successful as Chase offered to issue a partial credit of the whole amount charged - far exceed the amount of DCC. The full amount charged was $49.45 including 5% DCC. The DCC amount was only $2.25 that I was willing to just let it go but stupidly to file a dispute "just for the team". Chase proposed a partial credit of $40 while all it should have "absorbed" is just $2.25. So in this sense the DCC claim was successful.

It is the implementation of the resolution failed miserably. The time and efforts involved are TOTALLY NOT WORTH IT, principle or no principle.

At the end of the day, it is NOT the merchant, but the bank, eat the cost - both the actual $ but also the cost of man power, plus my own time.

Totally NOT worth it unless it is a big enough amount. How to define how much is big enough to worth the time and effort, of course is YMMV.

What has happened, I suspect that is caused by the poor system design when the system did not see a required form entry on whether a customer accepted the merchant's contest or continued to dispute, the system defaulted to rebill the full amount, EVEN THOUGH the rep from the disputer dept ACTUALLY put in the necessary credit.

If you pay attention to my detailed posts, during the weekend after the rep proposed the resolution on Friday, I did see a $9.45 (the net of $49.45 original amount and the $40 partial credit) being reflected in the Available Credit, despite cannot be seen as a pending charge. So the rep indeed has done her part on what is promised.

Unfortunately, that is where Chase system may have superseded her manual entry due to the dispute is a contested one and there is no coding of customer's reaction. So the system defaults to rebill the full amount. This is purely my guess but it is the only logical way to explain why her manual entries never show up and eventually "disappeared" from the Available Credit figure. Then the full disputed amount was rebilled.

I reported here that the Available Credit Limit now reflected a $49.45 charge instead. I monitored the "events" closely because we were leaving for a 16 days cruise without internet access. Calls to the rep did not get return before we left for a month long trip on Wed morning.

Statement will close while we were on the cruise and Payment Due Date would fall shortly after we got back on land. I had no idea when we would have secured internet access to make online payment in time and voiced my concern right on this thread. Someone here told me that Chase would allow transfer from Chase own banking account even the card balance was Zero. That was exactly what I did on the morning of our departure as I did not want to worry about secured internet connection so I could pay on time.

As reported on the Chase dispute thread, 2 statements have passed with no trace of the $40 credit. Once I found the Chase letter detailed the resolution of the DCC claim, exactly as what I was told over the phone, I started calling the rep but of course never got a call back after 1/2 calls just like the first time. That is when I decided to reach a manager in the dispute dept so to resolve this crap once and for all.

For you continue to advocate people to file DCC disputes, I strongly suggest you to read thru the Chase dispute thread and learn from others posts that Chase handles disputes very poorly, even including other disputes that have nothing to do with DCC.

My approach? I would return to how I previously handle it - I chalk it up as an expense incurred on trip if unfortunately I fail to avoid it. Most our spend once we started our trip, are the local transportation and dining, plus admission fees, as our flights and hotels are almost always paid with miles and points, paid transportation modes inevitably were purchased before trip started. Most of the time thanks to hotel status, we have lounge access/free buffet breakfast - that also greatly reduces dining spend.
Local transportation, dining, sightseeing, etc do NOT add up enough for me to be bothered by the occasional DCCs.

Like in Poland I got 2 DCCed charges - one inflated the amount by $0.20, the other by $0.38. You would spend more than the sum of these just by using a public bathroom in EU.

Now for those who pay their hotel bills at check out, that is a different scenario if they are being DCCed. Indeed, these folks definitely need to file claims should they be DCCed. Though I would suggest always follow up the claim with writing and send it to the address at the back of your statement - that is the only method protected by law.
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Old Jun 3, 2017, 9:16 pm
  #127  
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I think you got it wrong about the DCC claim.

...

It is the implementation of the resolution failed miserably. The time and efforts involved are TOTALLY NOT WORTH IT, principle or no principle.
I would say if you're fighting the charges on principle, the dollar amount is irrelevant. If you search back on the original DCC thread, there are people who have gotten successful reason code 76 chargebacks with the merchant with Chase cards. (This is more than just Chase giving some sort of credit to the account where they're eating the cost.)

Totally NOT worth it unless it is a big enough amount. How to define how much is big enough to worth the time and effort, of course is YMMV.
Even with a hotel charge of let's say $1000 with a 3% DCC rate, one's cost mailing certified letters and the like could exceed the DCC amount quickly. Most of these disputes are on principle in the first place. Merchants count on people saying, "Well, yeah... I got ripped off, but it's 50. I'm not going to worry about it." It's what allows the DCC con to not only continue but proliferate.

For you continue to advocate people to file DCC disputes, I strongly suggest you to read thru the Chase dispute thread and learn from others posts that Chase handles disputes very poorly, even including other disputes that have nothing to do with DCC.
I fully intend to file a DCC claim if forced into the situation. However, I have successfully managed to opt out since I started caring about the issue 4 years ago. Granted, I have not been to Mainland China nor have I been to Poland. Furthermore, I arm myself with tools to avoid DCC as much as possible to reduce the risk:

1) At hotels, I used my SPG AmEx if I'm staying at a Marriott or SPG property. This stops DCC in its tracks. In the case of a non-Marriott or SPG hotel, I book the reservation with my AmEx Platinum as the preauth card and then settle the bill using my Citi Hilton or Chase Sapphire Reserve. (In the case of Hiltons, this will likely be irrelevant next year if the Citi Hilton cards get converted.)

2) An increasing number of places will allow mobile payments if you say you're going to do contactless. Some countries have a limit - Estonia is €10, for instance, even though I didn't see DCC there.

3) At restaurants, I proactively offer that they should select local currency if it's an option. Normally in Europe this isn't an issue as they'll bring the terminal to the table.

4) For shopping, especially at tourist places, I stand back and watch to see if DCC is present and/or the merchant offers a currency choice. Sometimes based on this, I'll know my chances of success.

5) For small purchases, sometimes I hand over cash rather than risk getting hit with DCC on a small purchase where the best case outcome is the issuer giving a courtesy credit.

6) Included lounge access/breakfast/prepaid expenses do cut down on the number of exposure points, so I follow your strategy here as well.

7) If the location is known for rampant DCC, try an American Express if it's viable. For Mainland China, I have a UnionPay network card.

Now for those who pay their hotel bills at check out, that is a different scenario if they are being DCCed. Indeed, these folks definitely need to file claims should they be DCCed. Though I would suggest always follow up the claim with writing and send it to the address at the back of your statement - that is the only method protected by law.
Agreed. Sending a letter in writing will get a response and likely triggers a number of the required responses that a simple web form or phone call would not. However, as noted above, the cost and time of this correspondence can add up quickly. Unless the purchase is for something substantial, you're likely fighting on principle than to recoup any of the money.
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Old Jun 4, 2017, 4:20 am
  #128  
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Originally Posted by percysmith
Airbnb uses multi-currency processing. This is different from DCC in that the merchant asserts the transaction was never finalised in local currency in the first place and the currency is always in card currency.

It should be thought of as a hidden surcharge for doing business with Airbnb. No optionality allowed.
We in HK seem to be able to work around this by selecting PayPal. Any luck with Airbnb accounts elsewhere?
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Old Jun 4, 2017, 6:23 am
  #129  
 
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Originally Posted by Majuki
1) At hotels, I used my SPG AmEx if I'm staying at a Marriott or SPG property. This stops DCC in its tracks. In the case of a non-Marriott or SPG hotel, I book the reservation with my AmEx Platinum as the preauth card and then settle the bill using my Citi Hilton or Chase Sapphire Reserve. (In the case of Hiltons, this will likely be irrelevant next year if the Citi Hilton cards get converted.)
I'm not following what's going on here. I understand that AmEx prohibits DCC, and I carry my SPG card for that reason, even if not planning to stay at any of their properties. But does the AmEx pre-authorization somehow "inoculate" your settlement transaction against DCC when you use a different DCC-vulnerable card to settle up?
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Old Jun 4, 2017, 6:27 am
  #130  
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No but at least the hotel wouldn't to be able to DCC on the preauth if majuki is not able to/hotel refuses to perform a card-present charge on checkout. This seems SOP for Asian and European hotels but in Canada they seem to want to charge my preauth.
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Old Jun 4, 2017, 6:54 am
  #131  
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Originally Posted by percysmith
No but at least the hotel wouldn't to be able to DCC on the preauth if majuki is not able to/hotel refuses to perform a card-present charge on checkout. This seems SOP for Asian and European hotels but in Canada they seem to want to charge my preauth.
This is the general idea. In North America, the checkout procedure is a bit different than Europe, Asia, and Australia/NZ. Normally here the hotel will simply slip the bill under your door during the last night of your stay. The hotel will do a reprint in case there are incidental charges prior to checking out. Otherwise, the hotel will charge the card on file from check-in. This can happen when you visit reception upon leaving but not always. Sometimes the hotel processes the charge later in the day. As I only have USD cards, I can't claim any DCC issues with the major hotel chains in the US. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but I haven't read any reports or complaints.

In other parts of the world, one tends to settle the hotel charges with a single card present transaction upon checking out. For these situations, I will use an AmEx checking in for the preauth. In the case of a non-Marriott or non-SPG property, I will switch the AmEx to either a cobranded card or something like the Chase Sapphire Reserve for an independent hotel upon checking out. This avoids the property from automatically charging the preauth card for the amount of the hotel room and accumulated incidental charges.
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Old Jun 6, 2017, 11:39 pm
  #132  
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I got hit by a Global Blue tax refund multi-currency conversion when I had the money refunded to my credit card. The refund amount was 14. Based on the posting date, the refunded amount should have been $15.80. However, only $14.59 got posted. That's a 7.658% worse rate than what I should have received.

Since it's not a true DCC situation, I don't believe there's a method of contesting the transaction. While getting the tax refund is better than nothing, there doesn't seem to be much of a way around Global Blue taking a cut of the payment. Fellow member percysmith indicated that even taking a cash refund is subject to a fee and isn't necessarily available in all locations. In my case, the cash refund fee at Helsinki Airport would have been 3.

Examining section 4.3 of the FAQs, it would appear that Visa, MC, and Diners get refunded in the currency of the card. China UnionPay gets refunded in USD and AmEx gets refunded in GBP, but I imagine Global Blue sets the exchange rate for both of these. JCB appears to be in local currency, but that's the only exception.
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Old Jun 7, 2017, 7:04 pm
  #133  
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Final Closure

Finally got the obligatory post card from Chase to confirm the $49.45 credit is permanent. A simple DCC dispute has dragged on FOUR months for a measly amount of $2.30. It has been handled by no less than four Chase call centers - Indian and Philippines Call Centers, Columbus, Ohio and San Antonio, Texas Call Centers - they only handle disputes. A total of 4 reps have handled the dispute one way or the other, including a supervisor who finally felt enough was enough and closed the dispute by giving credit of the full amount merchant billed. Such a LENGTHY process for a $2.30 DCC amount is totally unbelievable.
Both the Columbus and San Antonio call centers are on recorded lines. The initial automatic anwser would tell you this the first thing.

The summary of the timeline for future reference, in case someone wants to file a dispute with Chase.

1) Filed dispute online in first week of Feb on a charge of $49.45, citing Visa Code 76 on DCC charge without customer consent. Requested the merchant reversing the DCC billing and rebilling in local currency AED.

2) An Indian rep called a few days later. briefly verifying the nature of dispute and informing how the process would be.
I got a postcard 2 weeks later basically telling me the same thing. The rep's name on the postcard though, was not the rep who made the initial phone call.

3) Towards the end of March, got a message from a US-based (Columbus) rep to call her back. After about 6 or 7 calls only to be met with voice mail message, never a call back, I called the number on my CSR card. Regular Rep immediately saw there was a note on the disputed item and transferred me to the Philippines call center. Rep in Philippines told me the merchant contested the dispute and a letter was sent to me already.

4) On April 12 I finally received the Chase letter - it actually came as a packet, consisted 2 sets of electronic records of the transaction from the processor(s). Also a print out from the processor who only agreed to "authorize" an arbitration amount of $2.30 - the amount of DCC.
Chase covering letter did not mention any of that. All it said was the merchant contested the dispute. There is a form for me to fill out and send back - 2 options, either agree with the merchant or to continue the dispute.
There is a deadline to send back the form. Unfortunately the packet arrived me within 1 day before the deadline.
The letter was signed by the same rep who left the message on my phone more than 2 weeks ago but never returned my calls.

5) I called that person again, 3 times. She finally called back 2 days later on Apr 14, Friday. Over the phone she claimed Chase could not make the merchant rebill in local currency. I have no idea whether this is indeed true or not and have no interest to find out. She proposed a resolution - that she would only remove $9.45 from the initial temporary credit, leaving $40 credit on my account and consider dispute close. I considered it very generous and agreed on the resolution. She confirmed that I could ignore the form as this phone call would supersede the form. She also said a letter would follow to confirm the final resolution.

6) I did see my card's available credit was reduced by $9.45 on Saturday but never saw any pending activities. Those who own Chase cards know Chase posting of transaction is very slow. I figure it would show up either Monday or Tuesday. Instead, on Monday the available credit changed to reflect a reduction of $49.45 - the full amount merchant billed initially, including the DCC. Nothing changed on Tuesday. I voiced my frustration and concern on this thread as we were leaving for a long trip on Wednesday. I really did not want the statement closed in a few days with a balance when we would not have internet access for the next 18 to 20 days. Someone here told me Chase allowed transfer from Chase account to the credit card account even the card account balance is zero. I waited till Wed morning to see if anything posted. Still nothing changed. I transferred money from my Chase checking to the CSR then left for the long trip.
When I finally had internet access on May 7th I checked Chase online. The full $49.45 was rebilled. There was no $40 credit.

7) Upon returning home and finally got my mail on May 26, I saw a letter from Chase signed by the person at Columbus. In it she detailed the resolution which did not happen/come thru to my account.

8) I placed calls to her before Memorial Day holiday and after the holiday, but again did not receive any call back. This time I got angry and called the toll free number of the dispute dept - reached Philippines. Told the rep I needed to talk to a US-based manager to resolve a customer service issue. Got transferred to a supervisor at San Antonio, TX. I asked the supervisor to be patient before I gave him the full scope of this matter. He went over the account quickly and indeed, notes there about the resolution but nothing actually was posted that way. He apologized that I should not have gone thru such lengthy process and still not getting what Chase promised. He told me he ordered a full reversal of the rebilling and would notate the account. So in case there is still SNAFU I could call back and tell any rep who got the call to just read the last note.

9) 2 days after the conversation, the available credit has increased by $49.45. Then the credit posted over the weekend.
A postcard arrived on June 6th confirming the credit of $49.45 is permanent. The rep's name on the post card is NOT the name of the supervisor but yet another person's name.
So all in all, 4 Chase employees have handled this dispute. Indian call center rep who initially called me. The rep in Columbus who proposed the resolution which never posted. The supervisor in San Antonio who ordered a full credit. The rep whose name appeared on the confirmation postcard.

The whole thing is surreal. I wonder how much time Chase has wasted on handling disputes the way they are handled, as my experience turned out is not unique based on the Dispute thread someone started in Chase forum.
It also wastes customer's time and causes frustration.

My suggestion to folks who want to file claim on DCC, do it over the phone unless the amount is quite large. Ask to speak to a supervisor as the first line rep would not have authority or not even understand what DCC is. Supervisors most likely would give you credit of the DCC amount right on the same call. No need for formal dispute as at the end it is still the US Banks absorb the scam charges. If the DCC amount is large enough, I suggest you first call to dispute it, then follow up with a LETTER to the address listed at the back of the statement, to protect your legal right. This is not just for DCC dispute but for all disputes. Only a letter sent to the bank would give you protection under the law.

Safe Travel to everyone.
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Old Jun 7, 2017, 9:34 pm
  #134  
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Originally Posted by Happy
The whole thing is surreal. I wonder how much time Chase has wasted on handling disputes the way they are handled, as my experience turned out is not unique based on the Dispute thread someone started in Chase forum.
It also wastes customer's time and causes frustration.
It does seem like there is a certain cost now disputing transactions with Chase. It will be easy for me to simply say use another bank's credit card (la) but I think you may not want to forsake Chase's overseas earn rates (CSR/CSP?).

I admit to picking my DCC fights these days. PRC I try to avoid using V/M unless I know the merchant is cooperative to voiding and fixing DCC errors if they happen - DCC is national policy (国情). If I get DCC at other places I make it crystal in every language that the local currency is to be billed and (if this doesn't work like in King Power BKK) stand over them to fix it on the spot.

Disputing is easier in HK, cos I can send a fax to the bank in the middle of the night (most banks), and they'll have to reply in 30 days or I escalate to HKMA. HKMA is well aware of the DCC problem HK cardholders are facing abroad and is taking a dim view of the banks who do not.

Last edited by percysmith; Jun 7, 2017 at 9:44 pm
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Old Jun 11, 2017, 9:44 pm
  #135  
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I saw no DCC in Vancouver, but admittedly I used my SPG AmEx for the hotel and Android Pay for all but three transactions (fast food, restaurant, one taxi). I did, however, see many people paying with USD banknotes at rather unfavorable exchange rates.
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