Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC)

Old Feb 1, 2017, 2:21 pm
  #46  
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,537
Originally Posted by BruceyBonus
I recently returned from Spain and found contactless DCC very widespread. All compliant and nothing forced, but the currency choice appears during the authorisation stage, so you may need to keep hold of the reader (if portable) until the transaction has completed. The terminals with touchscreen also had a second "are you sure you don't want to be ripped off" screen, where you have to touch the red box on the screen (but not the red cancel button) to opt out of DCC.

Does anyone know how DCC works (or does not work) with Apple Pay and Android Pay. Who does the currency conversion? And is DCC offered?
Apple Pay and Android Pay are just tokenised versions of the original card and behave nearly identically (NEARLY - one huge difference... ALL transactions have to go online).
AllieKat is offline  
Old Feb 8, 2017, 12:46 pm
  #47  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,866
Originally Posted by Happy
Shops asked which currency to use but the option to punch is not uniform. Have seen at one shop option 1 represents AED, option 2 represents home currency and then the exact opposite sequence is found at the next shop.

Then at an Iraqui restaurant in the Al Rigga neighborhood, far from the tourist area but in the heart of the "local foreigners" area, I forgot to tell a waiter to use AED when he asked if I could pay cash. Nope, didn't have enough AED with me only had cards. I was distracted and forgot to emphasize to use AED. He came back with a "customer copy" that showed AED or USD but it did not even require a signature and was a done deal in USD.

The bill was below $50 - $47.xx to be exact - billed as $49.49. So the DCC is at 5%. I saw the pending was $47.xx in the correct translation but the actual posting was $49.49. Kind of strange because I have never seen a nonDCC pending then a DCCed posting.

Since the absolute amount is just $2.50 I am not going to dispute it even though I was never given an option.

At the Dubai Mall the US burger chain Five Guys just ran the card in AED without any option to choose.

In Hong Kong now. Had dim sum at Jade Garden at Star House by the Star Ferry. Again the waitress told me "HKD ONLY. We don't take Union Pay!"
Had a new pair of glasses made. The payment went straight to HKD.

So I gather that the DCC in Hong Kong largely confine at hotels and restaurants appeal to expats.
Update:

File online dispute after returning home.
1) There is NO option for the foreign currency exchange dispute. However when picked Overcharged / Different Amount Charged, there is a note showed up if you are disputing due to Foreign Currency Conversion, use "Other" - the last option on the list.
2) You need to pick Full amount because if it is partial and small, the next screen would not give you a box (limit to 1000 characters) to put in the details.
3) Choose Full, and Other, the next screen gives you a box to list our your reason (other than those listed as options) to dispute. Pay attention on the allowed special characters and do not use any outside the allowed. Else you will get error message when you hit submit.
4) There is an auto email confirmation after the submission of dispute, informing you it will take up to 5 business days before Chase contact you.

I did this on Feb 6. Received a phone call from Indian Call Center on recorded line today Feb 8 around noon EST. The rep identified himself as calling from Chase Card Services and the call was on recorded line. He has heavy accent but he made an effort to speak slowly. He verified with me on the situation - that the merchant failed to bill in local currency despite being told to do so, and the merchant refused to reverse the DCCed amount and redid the transaction in local currency.

He then told me Chase will issue a temporary credit (haven't seen it yet) and I do not have to pay that amount while in dispute.
Chase will inform the merchant of the dispute and request the merchant to rebill in UAE Dirham the local currency.
The merchant has 45 days to do it.
If the merchant fails to rebill within the stipulated time frame, the credit will then become permanent.
Chase will send me a letter to detail the above in the next 5 to 7 business days.

At the end of the call when I asked if there was a reference number of the case, he said unfortunately no there wasn't but he could give me his full name. He made an effort spelt out his full name in the form of the airline format to make sure I got it right.

So yes, everyone should dispute the charges if the merchants fail to comply with the Visa or MC rules to offer customer the options on which currency to use.
Happy is offline  
Old Feb 8, 2017, 3:54 pm
  #48  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,142
Originally Posted by Happy
He then told me Chase will issue a temporary credit (haven't seen it yet) and I do not have to pay that amount while in dispute.
Chase will inform the merchant of the dispute and request the merchant to rebill in UAE Dirham the local currency.
The merchant has 45 days to do it.
If the merchant fails to rebill within the stipulated time frame, the credit will then become permanent.
Chase will send me a letter to detail the above in the next 5 to 7 business days.

<snip>

So yes, everyone should dispute the charges if the merchants fail to comply with the Visa or MC rules to offer customer the options on which currency to use.
It sounds like you got a full reason code 76 chargeback! Let us know the outcome. I'm curious when the merchant reruns the transaction whether or not the original or new posting date will govern the exchange rate.
Majuki is online now  
Old Feb 9, 2017, 12:47 am
  #49  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,866
Originally Posted by Majuki
It sounds like you got a full reason code 76 chargeback! Let us know the outcome. I'm curious when the merchant reruns the transaction whether or not the original or new posting date will govern the exchange rate.
In the case of AED it does not matter as it is pegged to USD just like the HKD does. So the fluctuation is very minimal.

Though when Chase runs a travel credit on the CSR it uses a screwed way to do the exchange rate - I used the CSR to buy the Dubai Transit's Nol card and load funds to it as needed. Chase system recognizes it is travel (commuter train I suppose) and credits back each purchase as it posts because I have not used up my annual $300 travel credit yet.

The exchange rate on the charge part looks a normal process, like AED to USD. However on the credit side, I could not figure it out how its system does based on the description and the exchange rate, but the USD amount is identical as the charge.
Happy is offline  
Old Feb 9, 2017, 2:54 am
  #50  
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Non-top tier Asia Miles member
Posts: 20,003
Originally Posted by Happy
So yes, everyone should dispute the charges if the merchants fail to comply with the Visa or MC rules to offer customer the options on which currency to use.
Issuer banks are as enthusiatic about Reason Code 76/4846 as airlines about EC 261/2004. It's a pure cost to the issuers and most of them will prefer to pretend it doesn't exist.

Maybe better in the US but in HK/Singapore they don't do anything til you escalate http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/singa...l#post25604402
percysmith is online now  
Old Feb 9, 2017, 1:40 pm
  #51  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,866
Originally Posted by percysmith
Issuer banks are as enthusiatic about Reason Code 76/4846 as airlines about EC 261/2004. It's a pure cost to the issuers and most of them will prefer to pretend it doesn't exist.

Maybe better in the US but in HK/Singapore they don't do anything til you escalate http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/singa...l#post25604402
Understand. While EC 261/2004 the airlines eat the cost as that is the result of their failure to perform I dont believe the banks eat the disputed amount under Reason Code 76/4846 because the fault is at the merchant's side. US Banks especially AMEX, would not hesitate to charge back the merchants.

Temp credit shows up with description as Return.
Will see how the merchant response - the cashier shrugged when I asked her to reverse and redo the bill. Now they have to go thru the charge back as I dont believe Chase would eat it and just go thru the formality without charge back to the merchant.
Happy is offline  
Old Feb 9, 2017, 6:43 pm
  #52  
Ambassador, Hong Kong and Macau
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: Non-top tier Asia Miles member
Posts: 20,003
Originally Posted by Happy
While EC 261/2004 the airlines eat the cost as that is the result of their failure to perform I dont believe the banks eat the disputed amount under Reason Code 76/4846 because the fault is at the merchant's side. US Banks especially AMEX, would not hesitate to charge back the merchants.
The cost to bank is not eating the loss - it's the administrative cost of filing and following up the chargeback.

Apparently the administrative cost is enough to make banks in the States pay out of pocket.

Our banks are uniformly run by scrooges who believe in no such thing. So they fight the customer.
percysmith is online now  
Old Feb 13, 2017, 2:13 pm
  #53  
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 338
Question

Is there a way to avoid DCC when renting from Europcar through the website?

I went through a pre-paid booking and it was confusing, they display the price in both euros and dollars.

The credit card transaction matched the displayed dollar amount to the cent, as such I assume DCC was in play.
TObject is offline  
Old Feb 21, 2017, 3:36 am
  #54  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,142
During a recent trip to Hong Kong, I have to say that I agree with Happy, and I feel like fewer places are offering DCC (or opt out customers without saying so). For example, three of us from FlyerTalk went to Wildfire at the Peak for dinner. We thought for sure there would be DCC, but there wasn't. The waitress said, "We can only charge in Hong Kong Dollars." Next, we went with percysmith to Lei Bistro in Times Square. After the meal we all made our way to the cashier and discovered the acquirer was Hang Seng Bank. We knew it would be easy to opt out of DCC if offered, but again there was none.

The Courtyard Hong Kong is still using a 4.9% DCC rate. Fortunately with the SPG AmEx Starpoints for staying at Marriotts I can use AmEx at most of my hotels stays. This means no DCC possible on the hotel room.

Finally, as klashn and I were heading back to the airport I asked the employee selling the Airport Express Line tickets to charge in Hong Kong Dollars. He replied, "I always do because otherwise the foreign exchange rate is very unfavorable." ^
Majuki is online now  
Old Feb 21, 2017, 8:31 pm
  #55  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,866
Originally Posted by TObject
Is there a way to avoid DCC when renting from Europcar through the website?

I went through a pre-paid booking and it was confusing, they display the price in both euros and dollars.

The credit card transaction matched the displayed dollar amount to the cent, as such I assume DCC was in play.
I would not assume that.

Avis website always show USD if your address is in US. However before you get to the final page, if you opt for the local currency it will display the local currency but there is NO WAY to make it show local currency on the final confirmation.

HOWEVER, and this is IMPORTANT to know, (and check for yourself to see if Eurocar is the same) - the USD displayed on the final confirmation is a Market Rate translation from the local currency to USD, with very very little difference when you check the real time mean rate XE site shows. I have checked this on multiple international reservations and have yet found any padded % added to the USD display.

More over, when paid with a Visa or MC, in some locations (FRA in our experience) even though the contract does not have the DCC language, and you have opted out DCC in your Avis profile, the charge still came in as USD, BUT was IDENTICAL as the amount shown on the reservation, regardless the exchange rate has gone up against the USD, i.e. if it is billed on current exchange rate we would have been charged MORE - but we were not. Therefore I have come to the conclusion - that DO NOT ASSUME you are being DCCed if you see it is a USD charge - CHECK the exchange rate at the time the charge was billed - only until then you have no idea whether you are being DCCed or not.
Happy is offline  
Old Feb 21, 2017, 8:34 pm
  #56  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,866
Originally Posted by Majuki
During a recent trip to Hong Kong, I have to say that I agree with Happy, and I feel like fewer places are offering DCC (or opt out customers without saying so). For example, three of us from FlyerTalk went to Wildfire at the Peak for dinner. We thought for sure there would be DCC, but there wasn't. The waitress said, "We can only charge in Hong Kong Dollars." Next, we went with percysmith to Lei Bistro in Times Square. After the meal we all made our way to the cashier and discovered the acquirer was Hang Seng Bank. We knew it would be easy to opt out of DCC if offered, but again there was none.

The Courtyard Hong Kong is still using a 4.9% DCC rate. Fortunately with the SPG AmEx Starpoints for staying at Marriotts I can use AmEx at most of my hotels stays. This means no DCC possible on the hotel room.

Finally, as klashn and I were heading back to the airport I asked the employee selling the Airport Express Line tickets to charge in Hong Kong Dollars. He replied, "I always do because otherwise the foreign exchange rate is very unfavorable." ^
I have been telling you guys for over a year or more that I do not have any DCC case in Hong Kong as far as eateries are concerned. How many times I told you guys that the wait staff esp the elder ladies almost yelled at me, "We only charge in HKD, No Union Pay!" ? At least you got a polite waitress to tell you so and without the Union Pay part!

Hotels remain the place you have to specifically tell them and be vigilant. I am glad you finally find out yourself, and Percysmith finally experienced that indeed these days Hong Kong eateries no longer DCC customers automatically.

Kudo to the Airport Express employee for being customer friendly.
Happy is offline  
Old Feb 21, 2017, 10:03 pm
  #57  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,142
Originally Posted by Happy
I have been telling you guys for over a year or more that I do not have any DCC case in Hong Kong as far as eateries are concerned. How many times I told you guys that the wait staff esp the elder ladies almost yelled at me, "We only charge in HKD, No Union Pay!" ? At least you got a polite waitress to tell you so and without the Union Pay part!
Yeah, we didn't try to pay with my UnionPay card first.

The true test would be to go back to a place like Greyhound Cafe to see if it's possible to opt out of DCC or if they've turned it off. If so, it wouldn't be without precedent. For instance, Rainbow had started to opt out customers from DCC proactively based on complaints from customers.

I do agree that hotels will still try to do DCC, but there are some strategies to protect yourself anywhere. First, I use an American Express for the reservation and preauthorization at check-in. I will then substitute the card for a hotel branded one or travel one upon checking out. Since my primary brand is Marriott or SPG, this has become a complete non-issue with the SPG AmEx. This would cover almost all of my stays in a place like Hong Kong with the exception of perhaps the Conrad or Peninsula, but I imagine either place would be able to opt out of DCC without a problem.

The next visit I will have more time to try out some old favorites to provide an update on those places as well.
Majuki is online now  
Old Feb 22, 2017, 9:04 am
  #58  
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MSP
Posts: 90
Can someone update the Visa Exchange Rate Calculator link in the Wiki? It's now at https://usa.visa.com/support/consume...alculator.html

Last edited by omarr; Feb 22, 2017 at 3:27 pm Reason: It helps if I include the new URL...
omarr is offline  
Old Feb 22, 2017, 3:59 pm
  #59  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,866
Originally Posted by Majuki
Yeah, we didn't try to pay with my UnionPay card first.

The true test would be to go back to a place like Greyhound Cafe to see if it's possible to opt out of DCC or if they've turned it off. If so, it wouldn't be without precedent. For instance, Rainbow had started to opt out customers from DCC proactively based on complaints from customers.

I do agree that hotels will still try to do DCC, but there are some strategies to protect yourself anywhere. First, I use an American Express for the reservation and preauthorization at check-in. I will then substitute the card for a hotel branded one or travel one upon checking out. Since my primary brand is Marriott or SPG, this has become a complete non-issue with the SPG AmEx. This would cover almost all of my stays in a place like Hong Kong with the exception of perhaps the Conrad or Peninsula, but I imagine either place would be able to opt out of DCC without a problem.

The next visit I will have more time to try out some old favorites to provide an update on those places as well.
It depends on individual hotel. I once booked the L'Hotel at Tin Hau for a last minute need of several days before our original booked stays at Hyatt TST / IC HKG. The L'Hotel rates were very low at HKD 650, like 50% or more below their usual rate. It is a very convenient location to go to my brother's place at Braemar Hill which is the mid level of North Point and there is a Green Minibus between Braemar Hill and Tin Hau MTR and the 1st stop is right in front of the hotel.

I booked this on Booking.com as a Pay At The Hotel rate and guaranteed with an AMEX when we were at Park Hyatt Sydney - the stay would start in 3 days when we flew SYD-BKK-HKG.
Within 24 hours I got an email from Booking.com said the hotel refused the booking due to AMEX was not accepted as guarantee. Needed to be a Visa or MC. I could not change the card used thru my iPad. Booking kept rejecting the change. At the end, the on duty Concierge staff (it was 9:30PM local time and he would be off duty soon), used the computer on his desk, and took my booking info as well as the CC info to attempt the change - Voila, the change went thru. He then joked with me that I would soon see hotel reservations all over the world (he had my CC info.)

So it is not always possible to use AE.

Finally I seriously dont know why this Grayhound Cafe being mentioned so many times. Unless you are vegetarian otherwise what is the big deal?
Happy is offline  
Old Feb 22, 2017, 9:35 pm
  #60  
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: HKG
Programs: MPC, Marriott, Hyatt
Posts: 407
Interesting. I've encountered DCC at at least four eateries in HK in the last three or four months. Not a lot - one place was the Burger King near the Hung Hom concert venue (ironically, a Japanese shop that was in the same food court as the BK didn't charge DCC even though they seem to use the same payment system). Another is Al Molo in Harbour City. There was a famous hotpot place in TST (name escapes me but it has those old school cone-like hotpots). I'll check my Chase disputes for a full list. I think there were two cases where I was surprised that DCC was offered and customer choice was adhered to (one of which is the Teawood in Central and another was a Korean place in Soho area).
kawaii is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Manage Preferences Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.