boiflyer

I highly disagree with your statements. Haven't you ever seen one of the programs on the Discovery channel about building demolition? I can't remember what the explosive is called, but small amounts directed at massive concrete pillars slice them in half. A small amount of that substance would probably make quick work of a pressurized aluminum skinned fuselage. It seems to me that amount would easily be concealed in a female or male body cavity.

Until the TSA has a magic scope to view the insides of these two body cavities, there is nothing TSA can do to stop a determined whacko. WBI, the grope, shoe fetish, liquid lunacy, etc. is just silly circus antics. Passengers stopped this whacko and prior whackos like Reid, not the TSA or its policies.

And, speaking of WBI being the end all be all, seems to me some creative use of silicon, cadaver skin, or backyard surgery implants would render it as useless as it really is.

Global_Hi_Flyer

A friend of mine has already announced that she will never fly again until this restriction is lifted. For the exact reason you state above.

Shape Charges. Small, highly effective, directional energy. They do require some sort of detonator or blasting cap to work.

TSORon

You make a valid point.

What should we do, based upon your conclusion? Stop attempting to interdict those who would do those things the like of which happened on 9/11? Trust to luck, god, or a roll of the dice?

LessO2

I gotta agree with this. It's part of my first thoughts after learning this new nonsense.

The bag thing will be the first thing to go, because that costs money.

if you stick with the 70/30 rule of an aircraft's load, you'll be talking about an increase of checked baggage by around 30%. Increased workload in a time when airlines are constantly cutting people or not filling vacancies.

Plus, many of these elite flyers are exempt from most baggage fees, including extra bags and overweight bags.

The ripple effect is that this will cause more labor costs, flight schedules will be affected and will impact the airlines' bottom line, and it will be changed eventually.

As for the last hour of the flight thing, that will change as well. Obviously, many bureaucrats and/or TSAers have not flown Trans-Atlantic or Trans-Pacific. The last 90 minutes of one of those flights are the most busy in terms of out-of-seat actions.

Sure, people can argue that it's up to the crew to wake up and mobilize the passengers, but when the crew serves the meal 90 minutes out from landing, right after that is when most people get up to use the lav.

Okay, just change when the announcements are made. Well, that might make bureaucrats happy, but to not allow people to pee or fill out their customs declaration cards or to allow usage of noise cancellation headsets? Sorry, the public is not going to accept that.

So, what happens on Canadian flights to the U.S., like Toronto-New York, Ottawa-Wash DC when the flights are a little over an hour, anyway? Business travelers aren't going to let a no-laptop policy fly.

All of this especially if the initial reports are true that DHS failed us again and permitted this guy to fly in the first place.

LessO2

With the numerous exemptions for screening (crew, airport employees, TSAers), the TSA already crosses its fingers with these folks.

But, as usual, it's the passengers that suffer in the end when something like this happens.

Flaflyer

Tell CO to cancel flight 33 CDG-IAH. Minimum three hours over the US mainland before landing. Or implement a three hour rule. . .

This will end when every pax is naked, xrayed, sedated, and sealed in a metal tube for the duration of the flight. Just start by getting FAA to eliminate that pesky 90 second evacuation rule.

Oh, and who gave the Lagos Leg Bomber a VISA to visit the US?

Global_Hi_Flyer

Real risk management, not eye candy or "no risk". When information is available, like it apparently was on this guy, take it seriously.... don't punish all the "good" flyers for the actions of one. The failure of government to take the intel about this guy seriously results in the punishment of us all. All those measures - APIS, ID checks, SecureFright, Visa Waiver, Visa process are intended to stop folks that are on the screens of intel folks as "bad guys". Assuming it's true that there was intel about this guy, it just proves that all those things are more for show (and consolidating government power) than they are for stopping terrorism.

Oh, and predictable reactions that cost $$$ and the freedoms of everyone need to stop. The terrorists have learned that a failed or insincere attempt like this one will cause as much damage as one that goes off.

I'm willing to bet that most folks here, if they put their minds to it, could find a number of ways to get stuff on board planes even in the face of hand searches and pat-downs.

hgdf

How about allocating as many resources to identifying terrorists as you do to identifying objects?

Trollkiller

How do you identify a terrorist? Do you interrogate everyone or just the brown ones?

How about we use technology to eliminate WEI being carried aboard and be done with it?

schwarm

Rules that weigh most heavily on children and bladders are inherently idiotic.

TSORon

Hence the Behavior Detection Officers. But here at FT, if you read much here, they are "totally ineffectual", "a waste of taxpayer dollars", or "security theater".

In this forum, TSA just cannot win, no matter the measures it tries. “Fair” is not a word 99% of those posting here comprehend, but they sure can abuse it.

magellan315

Actually we expect security measures developed by professionals with extensive experience in the field. Not by an agency staffed with the same caliber of administrators that made a mess of FEMA and the disaster in New Orleans even worse.

Here's what I want; TSO's who understand basic policy, like shoes not being in bins. Public accountability when you screw up, no hiding behind privacy laws. TSO's who are capable of consistently passing red team tests. Luggage that is truly secure from theft; if you take something out you can put something in. EVERYONE gets searched going into the sterile area and airport workers get searched going out of the sterile area, no exceptions.

boiflyer

No not stop, implement real security, not theater. Security like locked and reinforced cockpit doors. Most of the other stuff is just theater and silly, IMO. 9/11 happened by creative whackos working within the rules. Until the world is rid of whackos, enough rules cannot be created to stop them.

KRSW

If the pre-9/11 rules were followed by screeners on 9/11, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

The pre-9/11 rules were more than sufficient in preventing domestic aircraft terrorism. The last hijacking/terrorist event the US had seen prior to 9/11 was TWA 355 in 1976! For 25 years, the pre-9/11 rules served us well. We'd be looking at 33 years of terror-free domestic travel if it weren't for people not following the rules. You'd have to look back to 1970 to find the last time someone other than the hijacker ("terrorist" in the modern vernacular) was harmed. That's one hell of a safety record. Even the White House can't claim security which works that well. DHS/TSA have repeatedly proven themselves to be incompetent. So, with that I propose a return to the old system. It was inexpensive, efficient, and worked. The money currently wasted by the TSA/DHS could be funneled into things which would benefit the citizens of the USA -- like healthcare, education, etc.

ALSO, I'm absolutely sick of people using 9/11 to justify anything. I had friends who died in the Pentagon AND WTC. Both of them would be enraged to see how our country and government have changed to become a more fearful, closed society, and using their deaths as the battle cry. They didn't die for this crap we now live in. I find it disgusting that our own government is doing what the terrorists could not -- instill fear into the citizens of the USA and restrict their rights.

doober

However, apparently the guy was identified as being suspect and he got on a plane anyway.