Pax lights fireworks on NW AMS-DTW flight
#76
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,006
A bird wispered in my ear.
From the anonymous tip box by someone claiming to be a TSA employee.
Latest info I have is that Passengers will be subject more more random patdowns, more attention will be paid to powders and syringes (the guy was trying to blend a liquid explosive with powered explosive in a syringe). TSA is NOT planning on tighter liquid restrictions. There will also be more ETD tests.
#77
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Charleston, SC, USA
Programs: Avis Pref+, Hyatt Explorist, Marriott Life Gold, Honors Silver, IHG Plat via MC.
Posts: 6,786
IIRC I saw signs years ago in US airports in the name of a US Govt. agency (pre-TSA) that 'Psgr.s are warned that the airport of Lagos, Nigeria, does not maintain effective security measures.' So ineffective are the Nigerian airport cops that they could not be bothered to check the PXX manifest against our TSA's no-fly list!
Perhaps they were too busy dealing with the bank scammers who need Americans to help them launder imaginary $20--million bank accounts !
Perhaps they were too busy dealing with the bank scammers who need Americans to help them launder imaginary $20--million bank accounts !
#78
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Louisville, KY, US
Programs: QF Plat - OW EMD | DL Gold / Starwood Gold
Posts: 6,106
I believe the man flew from LOS-AMS-DTW. It has been a very long time since I've transferred from non-Schengen to non-Schengen at AMS, but I believe that you do not get security-screened again. You certainly wouldn't go through passport control in AMS in these circumstances.
1) ICTS Interview
2) Security Checkpoint
#79
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,726
From the anonymous tip box by someone claiming to be a TSA employee.
#80
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Dulles, VA
Programs: UA Life Gold, Marriott Life Titanium
Posts: 2,757
If he was connecting through AMS to NWA/Delta, he probably flew in on KLM. In places like Haiti, lots of places in Africa, lots of places in any number of 3rd-world holes, the major airlines themselves have secondary screening in the gate area. I seem to remember Guatemala City being this way, I know AA does it at Port-a-Prince and some other LA airports. While Lagos Airport has/had crappy security, the major European airlines flying in and out of there have much better security.
That said, I don't think this means a whole lot other than, for the price of a plane ticket and the time and effort to "train" a "bomber", Al Queda or whoever gets a ton of publicity and will most likely cause hundreds of millions of dollars in economic damage by sending an idiot like this out with what will probably be a needle of lighter fluid and a container of something flammable. These morons can't mix up an Arnold Palmer, they certainly don't have the ability to perform chemistry in a controlled environment while airborne and anyone who thinks so is a moron.
Just like the guys in the UK that initiated the War On Water, you don't actually have to have a real plan and the money and training to pull it off. Just look like you might and the USA Security Theater players will do the rest for you.
As to the rumors that they'll ban all liquids and powders, that's bogus but if it isn't, you can say goodbye to the airline industry. No one is heading on the road without toiletries.
That said, I don't think this means a whole lot other than, for the price of a plane ticket and the time and effort to "train" a "bomber", Al Queda or whoever gets a ton of publicity and will most likely cause hundreds of millions of dollars in economic damage by sending an idiot like this out with what will probably be a needle of lighter fluid and a container of something flammable. These morons can't mix up an Arnold Palmer, they certainly don't have the ability to perform chemistry in a controlled environment while airborne and anyone who thinks so is a moron.
Just like the guys in the UK that initiated the War On Water, you don't actually have to have a real plan and the money and training to pull it off. Just look like you might and the USA Security Theater players will do the rest for you.
As to the rumors that they'll ban all liquids and powders, that's bogus but if it isn't, you can say goodbye to the airline industry. No one is heading on the road without toiletries.
#81
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: DCA / WAS
Programs: DL 2+ million/PM, YX, Marriott Plt, *wood gold, HHonors, CO Plt, UA, AA EXP, WN, AGR
Posts: 9,388
The TSA cannot do nothing, even if a rational knowledgeable individual would conclude that this incident was on the order of a Richard Reid or shampoo bomber. The TSA will spend a few tens of millions of our dollars out at Sandia to make the two substances explode under carefully-controlled laboratory conditions to conclude that the threat is real and lurking under desks at every airport in America.
The intensity of the security theater increase will be directly proportional to the amount of bad publicity the TSA wishes to deflect. The biggie will be that this guy was on the "list" but was allowed to get on an airplane anyway. Another biggie will be that (apparently) the passengers gang-tackled the guy -- not FAMs. (Expect the TSA to take credit for Layer #20 in action.) The third biggie will be when someone in Congress rips the TSA a new one for doing very little to develop non-intrusive means to screen for explosives.
I also expect the TSA and local governments to conduct visible and highly-publicized harassment (to make the local news) of innocent passengers at train stations, ferries, and bus stops.
We, the American People, will pay for this with our checkbooks, our Constitution, and with our dignity at airports.
The intensity of the security theater increase will be directly proportional to the amount of bad publicity the TSA wishes to deflect. The biggie will be that this guy was on the "list" but was allowed to get on an airplane anyway. Another biggie will be that (apparently) the passengers gang-tackled the guy -- not FAMs. (Expect the TSA to take credit for Layer #20 in action.) The third biggie will be when someone in Congress rips the TSA a new one for doing very little to develop non-intrusive means to screen for explosives.
I also expect the TSA and local governments to conduct visible and highly-publicized harassment (to make the local news) of innocent passengers at train stations, ferries, and bus stops.
We, the American People, will pay for this with our checkbooks, our Constitution, and with our dignity at airports.
I might add: this guy was on the intel "bad list/watch list" but not added to the do not fly list (may well be another case of "can't add the bad guys to do not fly in order to not tip them off").
It will also be added justification for virtual strip searches and pat downs.
In fact, this guy did more for the TSA than any of their bleating could - and did it at a time that TSA is losing support. Funny how this - and the Reid event - happened a) at the holidays and b) as TSA came under fire for stuff. One wag up this way posited that this was a conspiracy by defense contractors to keep the war alive & keep the spending high (very doubtful).
#83
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Half the distance to EWR than PHL.
Programs: UA, AA, B6, BA, Hilton, Hyatt, Marriott, IHG, SPG
Posts: 11,695
In fact, this guy did more for the TSA than any of their bleating could - and did it at a time that TSA is losing support. Funny how this - and the Reid event - happened a) at the holidays and b) as TSA came under fire for stuff. One wag up this way posited that this was a conspiracy by defense contractors to keep the war alive & keep the spending high (very doubtful).
#84
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,006
I’m hardly a conspiracy theory person but it does seem rather convenient this happened after the TSA made almost preemptive updates to their website dated before this incident took place. Something doesn't feel right about this one. There seems to be much more information quickly made available to the press about details than normally would be expected.
#85
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Danville, CA, USA;
Programs: UA 1MM, WN CP, Marriott LT Plat, Hilton Gold, IC Plat
Posts: 15,722
I was delighted to hear that the perp was badly burned, too bad he didn't completely self-immolate. I gather the passengers also pummeled him. Too bad he'll be going to a federal pen for the rest of his life like Richard Reid, would be better just to put him in a circle and let all the passengers throw stones at him, like Shirley Jackson's "Lottery."
Next time you go though "heightened security" at your local airport you can blame this human filth.
P.S. I forgot to add that having departed 4 times from LOS over the past year I can attest that passenger screening is quite good, better than TSA. Every passenger is subjected to full gate rape before entering the jetway, including full handheld body scan and rifling through carry on luggage. This is after the usual metal detector screening that is needed to enter the secure area of the terminal (and disposal of liquids). Of course, I can't attest for the integrity of the airport personnel...
Next time you go though "heightened security" at your local airport you can blame this human filth.
P.S. I forgot to add that having departed 4 times from LOS over the past year I can attest that passenger screening is quite good, better than TSA. Every passenger is subjected to full gate rape before entering the jetway, including full handheld body scan and rifling through carry on luggage. This is after the usual metal detector screening that is needed to enter the secure area of the terminal (and disposal of liquids). Of course, I can't attest for the integrity of the airport personnel...
#86
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: usually SFO, sometimes SJC or OAK
Programs: United premier
Posts: 99
They kept them on the plane?
I know that newspaper reports are still early, but at least one source (quoted upthread) implied that pax were kept on the plane for some time after landing.
I hope that this isn't the case: if passengers need to be debriefed, move them somewhere secure but off the plane. I'll hope it is just inaccurate reporting, but then back in the time of SARS I recall reports of pax being kept on a plane because one passenger appeared to be sick.
If someone is sick, being forced to stay near them for even a minute longer than is physically necessary (not on the ground yet) is cruel. The same holds true if one passenger attacks the others: keeping the victims on the plane itself seems horrifying to me.
I hope that this isn't the case: if passengers need to be debriefed, move them somewhere secure but off the plane. I'll hope it is just inaccurate reporting, but then back in the time of SARS I recall reports of pax being kept on a plane because one passenger appeared to be sick.
If someone is sick, being forced to stay near them for even a minute longer than is physically necessary (not on the ground yet) is cruel. The same holds true if one passenger attacks the others: keeping the victims on the plane itself seems horrifying to me.
#87
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Half the distance to EWR than PHL.
Programs: UA, AA, B6, BA, Hilton, Hyatt, Marriott, IHG, SPG
Posts: 11,695
#88
In memoriam
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Seattle WA
Programs: Kimpton IC, Hyatt Diamond, Gold Marriott, Lifetime Platinum Starwood
Posts: 8,665
I love what FliesWay2Much said. Absolutely perfect. I am astounded that the components that are put into place e.g., having to go through security that makes no sense e.g., last week I watched while TSA people searched/patted down a woman who was about 75 and in a wheelchair, a 2-year old, that a person who is on the suspicious list was able to actually board the plane.
I have a question though - several folks have posted that there were FAMs in F - is that a known truth?
I have a question though - several folks have posted that there were FAMs in F - is that a known truth?
#89
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,195
Can any of the TSA kool aid drinkers tell me just how we're getting a return on our security investment? The reality is this - unless every passenger is strip searched before boarding, a dedicated individual is going to be able to board an aircraft with the capability to do harm, and someday that harm may be carried out. Regardless of whatever draconian measures the TSA thinks up next.
Again.
Now, I have seen nothing official on this yet, but here is what I can see happening.
1. Increased call for WBI’s at all checkpoints and increasing the frequency of their use.
2. A significant DHS budget increase, with the largest portion of it going out to other countries so that they can improve their pre-boarding security.
3. Lighters and matches, well lets just say that we have been there before.
4. Random screening at all US airports will jump significantly.
5. The current efforts by some members of congress to ban the use of WBI systems will quietly die a well deserved death.
#90
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Ketchikan, Alaska
Programs: GSA City-Pair; emeritus AS MVPG/UA 1K/US Plat, etc.
Posts: 2,635
Yes, that's exactly what the TSA wants - to get one step closer to strip-searching every traveler before they board.
How would making this guy go through a WBI have changed anything? This guy had a syringe, some liquid and some powder — none of which are prohibited items.
How would making this guy go through a WBI have changed anything? This guy had a syringe, some liquid and some powder — none of which are prohibited items.