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Old Dec 28, 2009, 10:09 pm
  #331  
 
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Originally Posted by QUERY
UPDATE

"I was watching CNN tonight and a telephone interview with Larry Johnson, former Deputy Director for the Office of Counterterrorism had some interesting comments and clarification to my previous statement above. There are actually 4 databases. TIDE, which is maintained by the National Counter Terrorism Center, has 500K names. The Terrorist Screening Database, which is maintained by the FBI, has 400K names. The "selectee" list contains 14K names and the NFL contains 4K names, both of which are now maintained by TSA. He had some negative comments for the bureaucracies of our gov't and, especially, the State Dept. and Janet Napolitano. He couldn't believe the comment she made regarding the wannabe terrorist."
CNN mentioned the 4 databases again tonight. Now, they are calling the Terrorist Screening Database the Consolidated Terrorist Watch List. I like the original name because of Mr. Johnson's background.
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Old Dec 28, 2009, 10:31 pm
  #332  
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Originally Posted by heineken42
If I'm not mistaken this guy fits the exact description of race, religion and country of origin as to where terrorist come from. But again im not expert, it only makes sense when all these attacks are from a select few people from certain countries, certain religions and certian backgrounds.
Nigerians look nothing like Asians (Pakistanis)/Middle Eastern men. So, yes, he did not fit the popular perception of a terrorist. I maintain, that's why he was able to get through the security even though, he had the device on his person. Are you suggesting that he wasn't examined very carefully BECAUSE he looked like a typical terrorist? Does that make any sense to you?

Your handle gives me a hint about why you might take an exception to my post. Don't take it personally. Most of my criticism is directed at my own country where I face most of my harassment. Over the last few years, I have seen that some Dutch security personnel are just about as bigoted as some in my own country.
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Old Dec 28, 2009, 11:03 pm
  #333  
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Originally Posted by QUERY
CNN mentioned the 4 databases again tonight. Now, they are calling the Terrorist Screening Database the Consolidated Terrorist Watch List. I like the original name because of Mr. Johnson's background.
There are substantially more than 4 databases that come up as part of the broader counterterrorism game.

Given what these more recent former or current officials involved in this or related areas are saying and the journalists repetition, it's clear that most of them either have no clue about how to get answers to understand what else is going on around them that is useful (or useless); it's also clear that the turf protection issues remain despite the claims that DHS and DNI offices would resolve that.
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Old Dec 28, 2009, 11:09 pm
  #334  
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Originally Posted by Yaatri
Nigerians look nothing like Asians (Pakistanis)/Middle Eastern men. So, yes, he did not fit the popular perception of a terrorist. I maintain, that's why he was able to get through the security even though, he had the device on his person. Are you suggesting that he wasn't examined very carefully BECAUSE he looked like a typical terrorist? Does that make any sense to you?

Your handle gives me a hint about why you might take an exception to my post. Don't take it personally. Most of my criticism is directed at my own country where I face most of my harassment. Over the last few years, I have seen that some Dutch security personnel are just about as bigoted as some in my own country.
You forgot to include that some Nigerians are of South Asian or Middle Eastern origins even as they are citizens of Nigeria. Ethnic Indians and ethnic Arabs (particularly Lebanese) exist in Nigeria as citizens of the country. Then again, this Nigerian was of neither such background.

Your last paragraph is something that I don't dispute in the least.
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Old Dec 28, 2009, 11:27 pm
  #335  
 
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Originally Posted by GUWonder
"There are substantially more than 4 databases that come up as part of the broader counterterrorism game."

"Given what these more recent former or current officials involved in this or related areas are saying and the journalists repetition, it's clear that most of them either have no clue about how to get answers to understand what else is going on around them that is useful (or useless); it's also clear that the turf protection issues remain despite the claims that DHS and DNI offices would resolve that."
Regarding your 1st paragraph, please, list them and who maintains them.

Regarding your 2nd paragraph, Mr. Johnson was more eloquent and substantive in what he said and without the biases of your statement.
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Old Dec 29, 2009, 12:06 am
  #336  
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Originally Posted by QUERY
Regarding your 2nd paragraph, Mr. Johnson was more eloquent and substantive in what he said and without the biases of your statement.
What biases in that post of mine? DHS and DNI have failed to eliminate the turf protection issues that both were supposedly created to resolve.

And about the databases, let those who still care to get paid from being talking-heads do the work. I am not here to spoon-feed on demand.
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Old Dec 29, 2009, 12:35 am
  #337  
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Originally Posted by GUWonder
You forgot to include that some Nigerians are of South Asian or Middle Eastern origins even as they are citizens of Nigeria. Ethnic Indians and ethnic Arabs (particularly Lebanese) exist in Nigeria as citizens of the country. Then again, this Nigerian was of neither such background.

Your last paragraph is something that I don't dispute in the least.
I did not want to confuse the poster by overloading them with tmi.
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Old Dec 29, 2009, 7:47 am
  #338  
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Originally Posted by GUWonder
[...] it's also clear that the turf protection issues remain despite the claims that DHS and DNI offices would resolve that.
As someone who has worked with several agencies ostensibly under the DNI's umbrella, I could not agree more. Between cultural issues (no amount of mandates are going to make the CIA want to share info in their possession with NSA, or v-v, for example) and budgetary ones, I just don't see a resolution in the future.

The few programs that I know of under DNI itself which were responsible for those timid first steps of information sharing have largely been squashed, either through budgetary issues (the DNI itself has very little control over $$, unfortunately) or through cultural ones (e.g. the current DNI's attempts to pull the plug on Intelink, the "successful" dismantling of BRIDGE, etc.). Some of these programs, like A-Space and various Intelink ventures, have received much good press, so it's almost completely baffling why the higher-ups are so often working their darndest to do away with them (or to leave them to rot in apathy).
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Old Dec 29, 2009, 8:10 am
  #339  
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Originally Posted by GUWonder
There are substantially more than 4 databases that come up as part of the broader counterterrorism game.

Given what these more recent former or current officials involved in this or related areas are saying and the journalists repetition, it's clear that most of them either have no clue about how to get answers to understand what else is going on around them that is useful (or useless); it's also clear that the turf protection issues remain despite the claims that DHS and DNI offices would resolve that.
Ding, ding, ding, we have another winner, Alex!

If I was a Congresscritter, I'd be screaming at DNI right about now saying "we gave you ___ billion for the NCTC, and you couldn't flag this idiot?"
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Old Dec 29, 2009, 2:31 pm
  #340  
 
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Originally Posted by Yaatri
Nigerians look nothing like Asians (Pakistanis)/Middle Eastern men. So, yes, he did not fit the popular perception of a terrorist. I maintain, that's why he was able to get through the security even though, he had the device on his person. Are you suggesting that he wasn't examined very carefully BECAUSE he looked like a typical terrorist? Does that make any sense to you?

Your handle gives me a hint about why you might take an exception to my post. Don't take it personally. Most of my criticism is directed at my own country where I face most of my harassment. Over the last few years, I have seen that some Dutch security personnel are just about as bigoted as some in my own country.
No I was saying that he did fit the profile. Many terrorists organizations operate in East Africa, Al Qaeda.
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Old Dec 29, 2009, 11:44 pm
  #341  
 
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Originally Posted by GUWonder
"What biases in that post of mine? DHS and DNI have failed to eliminate the turf protection issues that both were supposedly created to resolve.

And about the databases, let those who still care to get paid from being talking-heads do the work. I am not here to spoon-feed on demand."
Regarding your 1st paragraph, I'll let FT forum members figure that out for themselves with no help from me. Here is your statement that I referred to:

"Given what these more recent former or current officials involved in this or related areas are saying and the journalists repetition, it's clear that most of them either have no clue about how to get answers to understand what else is going on around them that is useful (or useless); it's also clear that the turf protection issues remain despite the claims that DHS and DNI offices would resolve that."

Fair and balanced, NOT. Vague statement-YES.

Regarding your 2nd paragraph, you make a comment that there are more databases out there but, when called upon to qualify your statement with specifics, you deflect. Oh, that's right, I keep forgetting everything you state is a "fact".
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Old Dec 30, 2009, 12:37 am
  #342  
 
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Originally Posted by heineken42
No I was saying that he did fit the profile. Many terrorists organizations operate in East Africa, Al Qaeda.
You aren't American by any chance? Last time I checked (all of 10 seconds ago), Nigeria is in WEST Africa
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Old Dec 30, 2009, 10:59 am
  #343  
 
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Apparently he was travelling on an Italian passport, which means the US intelligence community can be forgiven and just the nasty Euros blamed.

Curse those terrorists for making it difficult for them to detect them

Sky News
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