Pax lights fireworks on NW AMS-DTW flight
Dec 26, 2009, 11:27 am
#166
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 684
If you have and there is something pertinent in that section of the report please share it with us. Along with a web link so we can verify your statement,
Dec 26, 2009, 11:55 am
#167
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If you actually read the 9/11 Commission Report you will see that weapons are not the issue. At page 85:
If you get the report (just about any bookstore) you can find this. In other words, he was saying that a reinforced door was meaningless, because if you threatened his crew he would open the door. Why did he say that? Because prior to 9/11, it was doctrine to *cooperate* with hijackers because all they wanted was to fly to Cuba (or somewhere similar) and let all the passengers get off. This prevailing Common Strategy of cooperation and nonconfrontation meant that even a hardened cockpit door would have made little difference in a hijacking. As the chairman of the Security Committee of the Air Line Pilots Association observed when proposals were made in early 2001 to install reinforced cockpit doors in commercial aircraft, "Even if you make a vault out of the door, if they have a noose around my flight attendant's neck, I'm going to open the door."
People want to look for simple solutions to calm their panic. "Take away the box cutters!!!" But the pilot said a noose would be sufficientIndeed, prior to 9/11, more airline passengers had been killed by airline personnel (pilots and the PSA guy) than by non-employee terrorists.
Now, what is the weblink (or other reference) that you were relying on in saying that there were pre 9/11 rules that were not followed that, if followed, would have prevented 9/11?
Dec 26, 2009, 12:05 pm
#168
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,444
CNN reports (http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/europe...don/index.html) that:
"passengers boarding a U.S.-bound Virgin Atlantic aircraft were told there would be no in-flight electronic entertainment in the wake of the incident."
Now that will certainly keep them safe!! I guess the TSA isn't the only organization capable of inventing totally ineffective rules in the name of security theater.
(Sorry about the truncated format above - link embedding does not work.)
"passengers boarding a U.S.-bound Virgin Atlantic aircraft were told there would be no in-flight electronic entertainment in the wake of the incident."
Now that will certainly keep them safe!! I guess the TSA isn't the only organization capable of inventing totally ineffective rules in the name of security theater.
(Sorry about the truncated format above - link embedding does not work.)
Dec 26, 2009, 12:18 pm
#169
Join Date: Oct 2003
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It's Official: "Consistent inconsistency"
"Passengers flying from international locations to U.S. destinations may notice additional security measures in place. These measures are designed to be unpredictable, so passengers should not expect to see the same thing everywhere. Due to the busy holiday travel season, both domestic and international travelers should allot extra time for check-in."
http://www.tsa.gov/press/happenings/...statement.shtm
In other words, "We can't possibly get everyone in TSA on the same page, so be prepared for completely inconsistent and nonsensical behavior on their part and when you ask why the process is different, we'll tell you that we're trying to keep the terrorists off balance."
http://www.tsa.gov/press/happenings/...statement.shtm
In other words, "We can't possibly get everyone in TSA on the same page, so be prepared for completely inconsistent and nonsensical behavior on their part and when you ask why the process is different, we'll tell you that we're trying to keep the terrorists off balance."
Dec 26, 2009, 12:27 pm
#170
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,195
So how many terrorists have BDO's caught? The money spent on BDO's would be better allocated to making sure the TSA doesn't have such a high failure rate in Red Team tests. Or equipment that is researched carefully before we buy more white elephants like puffers. How about 100% of all checked luggage and cargo being screened.
If you want to "win" in these forums then the TSA needs to concentrate on their job. Stopping guns, knives, and explosives from getting on planes and forget the James Bond fantasies.
If you want to "win" in these forums then the TSA needs to concentrate on their job. Stopping guns, knives, and explosives from getting on planes and forget the James Bond fantasies.
Dec 26, 2009, 12:30 pm
#171
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CNN hasn't as yet posted the clip of its "exclusive" interview with pax Jasper Schuringa, but they're airing it ~15 minutes or so. If you're near an idiot box right now, checkitout.
Dec 26, 2009, 12:34 pm
#172
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,195
If we assume a life expectancy of 80 years, it will be 701280 hours. So one million passengers delayed by one hour is equivalent to at least one passenger being killed. You have to balance the lives saved by security measures against lives wasted in the airport queues.
Also focus on people, not objects. Saudi Arabia sponsors lots of Muslim schools all over the world which are rumored to produce terrorists. Why isn't the US sponsoring a network of similar schools promoting more peaceful versions of Islam? This would cost a lot less than the stupid war in Iraq cost. Fight the enemy with its own means.
Dec 26, 2009, 12:34 pm
#173
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,006
I just saw a snippet of it. I think he is still excited about what happened but he is trying to play it down.
Dec 26, 2009, 12:37 pm
#174
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 5,662
Originally Posted by TSORon
Please, tell that to the family and friends of those lost in the 9/11 attacks.
Dec 26, 2009, 12:40 pm
#175
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Ketchikan, Alaska
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What thing that the TSA does would have prevented 9/11 from happening?
...
Right, nothing.
9/11 happened because the terrorists were smart enough to exploit a huge hole in our psychological understanding of hijackings. It was a brilliant attack.
For that very reason, 9/11 can never happen again. The pilots won't react the same way, flight attendants won't react the same way and passengers certainly won't react the same way.
TSA's tin-star "heroes" staring at naked people and making sure we don't carry on shampoo are not only unhelpful, their singular focus on stuff that already happened is actively detracting from airline security.
The next attack will be something completely unexpected and the TSA will be caught with its pants down again. That's how terrorism works.
Last edited by FCYTravis; Dec 26, 2009 at 12:47 pm
Dec 26, 2009, 12:43 pm
#176
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what causes these incidents is blowback from the US empire. If the US would pull out of its wars against the people of Aghanistan and Pakistan and Iraq and Iran, and would pull out of the Middle East altogether, then the innocent people in the US would not be targets anymore.
Dec 26, 2009, 12:47 pm
#177
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,006
what causes these incidents is blowback from the US empire. If the US would pull out of its wars against the people of Aghanistan and Pakistan and Iraq and Iran, and would pull out of the Middle East altogether, then the innocent people in the US would not be targets anymore.
In any case let's not Omni this thread.
Dec 26, 2009, 12:53 pm
#178
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Dec 26, 2009, 12:56 pm
#179
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Dec 26, 2009, 12:57 pm
#180
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Would America be the Great Satan if it hadn't propped up the despotic Shah of Iran for 30 years?
This is way more complex than "Arab terrorists bad, USA good."