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COVID-19: refund provided as voucher (for non refundable fares)

Old Apr 6, 20, 8:58 am
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European Commission EC261/2004 guidelines in context of COVD-19 dated 18 MAR 2020
US DoT Enforcement Notice regarding refunds dated 3 APR 2020.
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COVID-19: refund provided as voucher (for non refundable fares)

Old May 14, 20, 8:38 am
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They must refund the vouchers they issued and forced customers to take as they did not provide any alternative for refund. Their previous statements claiming that they won't refund in cash and therefore respect the EU 261/2004 regulation is a good example. I have multiple communications saved which state that AF/KLM believes that providing a voucher is a good enough solution in their opinion to "guarantee passenger rights"
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Old May 14, 20, 8:43 am
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And it's actually in violation of article 14 of EU261:

An operating air carrier denying boarding or cancelling a flight shall provide each passenger affected with a written notice setting out the rules for compensation and assistance in line with this Regulation. It shall also provide each passenger affected by a delay of at least two hours with an equivalent notice. The contact details of the national designated body referred to in Article 16 shall also be given to the passenger in written form.
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Old May 14, 20, 9:21 am
  #378  
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Originally Posted by palmanfr View Post
They must refund the vouchers they issued and forced customers to take as they did not provide any alternative for refund. Their previous statements claiming that they won't refund in cash and therefore respect the EU 261/2004 regulation is a good example. I have multiple communications saved which state that AF/KLM believes that providing a voucher is a good enough solution in their opinion to "guarantee passenger rights"
Let's see what happens... this will be interesting.

One of the lines in their response to me was this:

Au sein d"Air France et KLM, nous pensons que lmission dun bon de voyage remboursable est un quilibre raisonnable entre la protection des droits des passagers et les ralits oprationnelles auxquelles toute compagnie doit faire face en raison des circonstances exceptionnelles.

Nous sommes trs soucieux du respect des droits de nos passagers.

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Old May 14, 20, 9:33 am
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Originally Posted by bostontraveler View Post
Let's see what happens... this will be interesting.

One of the lines in their response to me was this:

Au sein d"Air France et KLM, nous pensons que l’mission d’un bon de voyage remboursable est un quilibre raisonnable entre la protection des droits des passagers et les ralits oprationnelles auxquelles toute compagnie doit faire face en raison des circonstances exceptionnelles.

Nous sommes trs soucieux du respect des droits de nos passagers.



Yeah got the same one in French and English. Just a slap on your face.
On another note, I am definitely eyeing at QR's new book with confidence policy. We are miles away from current AF/KL policies for sure... I know with who to book now for my November vacation!
Let's see if AK/KL decides to put some spice in their policy following the "intervention" of the EU commissioner yesterday
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Old May 14, 20, 10:27 am
  #380  
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Originally Posted by palmanfr View Post
Yeah got the same one in French and English. Just a slap on your face.
On another note, I am definitely eyeing at QR's new book with confidence policy. We are miles away from current AF/KL policies for sure... I know with who to book now for my November vacation!
Let's see if AK/KL decides to put some spice in their policy following the "intervention" of the EU commissioner yesterday
I believe the "spice" here they will put in for those opting for the voucher will be like what Finnair has done since the beginning - adding a x% extra for the total refund value to the voucher. Only question to be seen is what the X-value will be. (Finnair is adding 10% extra).
I have a booking that I requested for a voucher refund back in early April (but still nothing received) and another two coming up - waiting to see how this evolves before calling up to get them settled.

re: the new QR book with confidence policy - it is interesting, but it is not clear at least to me if the new flights (including the 500 or 5000 miles flexiblity) does it include a fare difference (even if the same booking class is available).

Did anyone get any ticket validity extension for an already flown ticket? (I have one which I was supposed to fly the inbound, but those flights are cancelled and of course the borders are now still closed) I would not mind to move it to later this year or early next year, but the ticket validity is next month.

Cheers!
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Old May 14, 20, 12:56 pm
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I am confused about KLMs statement. I requested a refund on May 8 for a flight that was cancelled by KLM and received an email saying my refund request was rejected and gave me two options, change my flight or receive a voucher. I replied asking why it was rejected and referenced EC No 261 and got the response with the "official" KLM statement. I have never received or requested a voucher so can I now renew my request for a refund or is my only choice still the voucher or rebooking?
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Old May 14, 20, 2:18 pm
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Originally Posted by scottinaz View Post
I have never received or requested a voucher so can I now renew my request for a refund or is my only choice still the voucher or rebooking?
The law says you are entitled to a full refund. Full stop. Period. KL can't just arbitrarily decide to suspend the law from some date back in March until today. Not even when aided and abetted the Dutch secratary of transport.

Johan
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Old May 14, 20, 3:45 pm
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Originally Posted by johan rebel View Post
The law says you are entitled to a full refund. Full stop. Period. KL can't just arbitrarily decide to suspend the law from some date back in March until today. Not even when aided and abetted the Dutch secratary of transport.

Johan
What concerns me, however, is the Bluebiz doc that was shared that states that refunds will take up to 12 months to process. If this is the case it is an absolute slap in the face....
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Old May 14, 20, 4:44 pm
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Customers whose flights have already been canceled but who have not yet applied for or received a voucher will also be subject to the old regime, a spokesperson said. This means that they cannot ask for their money back.
It is illegal!
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Old May 14, 20, 4:51 pm
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Originally Posted by warakorn View Post
It is illegal!
I'm sure the legal interpretation is that customers "accepted" the voucher...and as such can't now request a refund. Ridiculous.
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Old May 15, 20, 12:20 am
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Is anyone here a lawyer or does anyone know one who‘d be interested in pushing criminal charges against the minister of transport in Netherlands (based on article 355 (3) and (4) of the criminal code)?
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Old May 15, 20, 4:34 am
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Originally Posted by bostontraveler View Post
What concerns me, however, is the Bluebiz doc that was shared that states that refunds will take up to 12 months to process. If this is the case it is an absolute slap in the face....
This document was dated the 6th of May. So it was probably created before the announcements of the EC for people that really didn't want a voucher. I assume it has been updated in the meantime.
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Old May 15, 20, 6:22 am
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It looks like it is a 15% additional value if you opt for the voucher.https://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/nieu...ent-meer-waard

Cheers!
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Old May 15, 20, 7:44 am
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Originally Posted by Rambol View Post
This document was dated the 6th of May. So it was probably created before the announcements of the EC for people that really didn't want a voucher. I assume it has been updated in the meantime.
No... there's a new one that just came out on May 6th-- interesting that it's dated before the EC communication this week.... wonder if there is a more recent one.

Maybe Oliver2002 knows-- COVID-19: AF/KL rebooking/refund policy post no. 667

http://image.email.bluebiz.info/lib/...bc2d2f83b5.pdf
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Old May 15, 20, 7:45 am
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Originally Posted by Rambol View Post
This document was dated the 6th of May. So it was probably created before the announcements of the EC for people that really didn't want a voucher. I assume it has been updated in the meantime.
oops...sorry, didn't see your message before writing! indeed!
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