Apr 6, 2020, 7:58 am
Last edit by: seawolf
European Commission EC261/2004 guidelines in context of COVD-19 dated 18 MAR 2020
US DoT Enforcement Notice regarding refunds dated 3 APR 2020.
US DoT Enforcement Notice regarding refunds dated 3 APR 2020.
COVID-19: refund provided as voucher (for non refundable fares)
May 14, 2020, 7:38 am
#376
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: In between BRU, AMS, DUS and LUX...
Programs: AF/KL Plat, BA Gold, A3 Gold, IHG Diamond, MR Gold, HH Diamond, ALL Platinum
Posts: 1,044
They must refund the vouchers they issued and forced customers to take as they did not provide any alternative for refund. Their previous statements claiming that they won't refund in cash and therefore respect the EU 261/2004 regulation is a good example. I have multiple communications saved which state that AF/KLM believes that providing a voucher is a good enough solution in their opinion to "guarantee passenger rights"
May 14, 2020, 7:43 am
#377
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: mostly not far from AMS, otherwise NUE
Programs: FB Silver, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 2,381
And it's actually in violation of article 14 of EU261:
An operating air carrier denying boarding or cancelling a flight shall provide each passenger affected with a written notice setting out the rules for compensation and assistance in line with this Regulation. It shall also provide each passenger affected by a delay of at least two hours with an equivalent notice. The contact details of the national designated body referred to in Article 16 shall also be given to the passenger in written form.
May 14, 2020, 8:21 am
#378
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Paris
Programs: AA LT Plat (4m+), AF Plat, A3 Gold, Hyatt Lifetime Globalist, Marriott Plat, IHG Plat/Ambassador
Posts: 2,648
They must refund the vouchers they issued and forced customers to take as they did not provide any alternative for refund. Their previous statements claiming that they won't refund in cash and therefore respect the EU 261/2004 regulation is a good example. I have multiple communications saved which state that AF/KLM believes that providing a voucher is a good enough solution in their opinion to "guarantee passenger rights"
One of the lines in their response to me was this:
Au sein d"Air France et KLM, nous pensons que l’émission d’un bon de voyage remboursable est un équilibre raisonnable entre la protection des droits des passagers et les réalités opérationnelles auxquelles toute compagnie doit faire face en raison des circonstances exceptionnelles.
Nous sommes très soucieux du respect des droits de nos passagers.
May 14, 2020, 8:33 am
#379
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: In between BRU, AMS, DUS and LUX...
Programs: AF/KL Plat, BA Gold, A3 Gold, IHG Diamond, MR Gold, HH Diamond, ALL Platinum
Posts: 1,044
Let's see what happens... this will be interesting.
One of the lines in their response to me was this:
Au sein d"Air France et KLM, nous pensons que l’émission d’un bon de voyage remboursable est un équilibre raisonnable entre la protection des droits des passagers et les réalités opérationnelles auxquelles toute compagnie doit faire face en raison des circonstances exceptionnelles.
Nous sommes très soucieux du respect des droits de nos passagers.
One of the lines in their response to me was this:
Au sein d"Air France et KLM, nous pensons que l’émission d’un bon de voyage remboursable est un équilibre raisonnable entre la protection des droits des passagers et les réalités opérationnelles auxquelles toute compagnie doit faire face en raison des circonstances exceptionnelles.
Nous sommes très soucieux du respect des droits de nos passagers.
On another note, I am definitely eyeing at QR's new book with confidence policy. We are miles away from current AF/KL policies for sure... I know with who to book now for my November vacation!
Let's see if AK/KL decides to put some spice in their policy following the "intervention" of the EU commissioner yesterday
May 14, 2020, 9:27 am
#380
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 4,287
Yeah got the same one in French and English. Just a slap on your face.
On another note, I am definitely eyeing at QR's new book with confidence policy. We are miles away from current AF/KL policies for sure... I know with who to book now for my November vacation!
Let's see if AK/KL decides to put some spice in their policy following the "intervention" of the EU commissioner yesterday
On another note, I am definitely eyeing at QR's new book with confidence policy. We are miles away from current AF/KL policies for sure... I know with who to book now for my November vacation!
Let's see if AK/KL decides to put some spice in their policy following the "intervention" of the EU commissioner yesterday
I have a booking that I requested for a voucher refund back in early April (but still nothing received) and another two coming up - waiting to see how this evolves before calling up to get them settled.
re: the new QR book with confidence policy - it is interesting, but it is not clear at least to me if the new flights (including the 500 or 5000 miles flexiblity) does it include a fare difference (even if the same booking class is available).
Did anyone get any ticket validity extension for an already flown ticket? (I have one which I was supposed to fly the inbound, but those flights are cancelled and of course the borders are now still closed) I would not mind to move it to later this year or early next year, but the ticket validity is next month.
Cheers!
May 14, 2020, 11:56 am
#381
Join Date: May 2010
Location: AZ
Programs: AA Million Miler, Bonvoy Lifetime Gold, Global Entry
Posts: 246
I am confused about KLMs statement. I requested a refund on May 8 for a flight that was cancelled by KLM and received an email saying my refund request was rejected and gave me two options, change my flight or receive a voucher. I replied asking why it was rejected and referenced EC No 261 and got the response with the "official" KLM statement. I have never received or requested a voucher so can I now renew my request for a refund or is my only choice still the voucher or rebooking?
May 14, 2020, 1:18 pm
#382
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 14,352
Johan
May 14, 2020, 2:45 pm
#383
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Paris
Programs: AA LT Plat (4m+), AF Plat, A3 Gold, Hyatt Lifetime Globalist, Marriott Plat, IHG Plat/Ambassador
Posts: 2,648
What concerns me, however, is the Bluebiz doc that was shared that states that refunds will take up to 12 months to process. If this is the case it is an absolute slap in the face....
May 14, 2020, 3:44 pm
#384
Suspended
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: PVG, FRA, SEA, HEL
Programs: UA Premier Gold
Posts: 4,783
Customers whose flights have already been canceled but who have not yet applied for or received a voucher will also be subject to the old regime, a spokesperson said. This means that they cannot ask for their money back.
May 14, 2020, 3:51 pm
#385
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Paris
Programs: AA LT Plat (4m+), AF Plat, A3 Gold, Hyatt Lifetime Globalist, Marriott Plat, IHG Plat/Ambassador
Posts: 2,648
May 14, 2020, 11:20 pm
#386
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: mostly not far from AMS, otherwise NUE
Programs: FB Silver, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 2,381
Is anyone here a lawyer or does anyone know one who‘d be interested in pushing criminal charges against the minister of transport in Netherlands (based on article 355 (3) and (4) of the criminal code)?
May 15, 2020, 3:34 am
#387
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 102
This document was dated the 6th of May. So it was probably created before the announcements of the EC for people that really didn't want a voucher. I assume it has been updated in the meantime.
May 15, 2020, 5:22 am
#388
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 4,287
It looks like it is a 15% additional value if you opt for the voucher.https://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/nieu...ent-meer-waard
Cheers!
Cheers!
May 15, 2020, 6:44 am
#389
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Paris
Programs: AA LT Plat (4m+), AF Plat, A3 Gold, Hyatt Lifetime Globalist, Marriott Plat, IHG Plat/Ambassador
Posts: 2,648
Maybe Oliver2002 knows-- COVID-19: AF/KL rebooking/refund policy post no. 667
http://image.email.bluebiz.info/lib/...bc2d2f83b5.pdf
May 15, 2020, 6:45 am
#390
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Paris
Programs: AA LT Plat (4m+), AF Plat, A3 Gold, Hyatt Lifetime Globalist, Marriott Plat, IHG Plat/Ambassador
Posts: 2,648