Apr 6, 2020, 7:58 am
Last edit by: seawolf
European Commission EC261/2004 guidelines in context of COVD-19 dated 18 MAR 2020
US DoT Enforcement Notice regarding refunds dated 3 APR 2020.
US DoT Enforcement Notice regarding refunds dated 3 APR 2020.
COVID-19: refund provided as voucher (for non refundable fares)
May 9, 2020, 2:52 am
#346
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 274
There's nothing normal about any of this. If the passenger is applying for a refund in their name, I have zero confidence that it's coming back to my credit card, especially when it went through an agency originally. KLM won't give any details on how these refunds will be processed.
May 9, 2020, 2:58 am
#347
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 274
I guess I'll have to wait until the other flights are cancelled then. The trip was due to start in a couple of weeks, so I expect there will be movement soon.
May 9, 2020, 3:11 am
#348
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Paris, France
Programs: AF/KL Flying Blue Platinum for life/Club2000 Ultimate, Accor ALL Diamond
Posts: 21,922
There's nothing normal about any of this. If the passenger is applying for a refund in their name, I have zero confidence that it's coming back to my credit card, especially when it went through an agency originally. KLM won't give any details on how these refunds will be processed.
But if the pax is accepting a voucher (under his/her name) then you're screwed.
May 9, 2020, 3:17 am
#349
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 274
A refund now would go back to my card (I assume), but is there any guarantee that would happen to a refund of an expired voucher in 12 months?
May 9, 2020, 3:18 am
#350
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: AMS
Programs: Hilton Diamond, FB Plat
Posts: 312
What amazes me is that there's still a "you can rebook for free, but only pay the fare difference" policy.
With many customers accepting vouchers to help out airlines even though they are lawfully owned a refund, this fare difference thing should NOT be a thing.
I had a flight ticket A<>Z. Give me the option to rebook another A<>Z at any other date WITHOUT fare difference being a factor. Get rid of your price calculation shenanigans.
It boggles me that the fare difference algorithm is still something going on. I'm seeing AMS<>BOS monitored flights jumping all over the place in price, up to €4000 in business class for flights that are a month out..
With many customers accepting vouchers to help out airlines even though they are lawfully owned a refund, this fare difference thing should NOT be a thing.
I had a flight ticket A<>Z. Give me the option to rebook another A<>Z at any other date WITHOUT fare difference being a factor. Get rid of your price calculation shenanigans.
It boggles me that the fare difference algorithm is still something going on. I'm seeing AMS<>BOS monitored flights jumping all over the place in price, up to €4000 in business class for flights that are a month out..
May 9, 2020, 2:05 pm
#351
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 186
A UK law firm is about to start class action against AF-KLM and Ryanair for not providing refunds according to EU law. Open to UK residents only for now.
https://www.theairlineclaim.com
https://www.theairlineclaim.com
May 10, 2020, 8:50 am
#352
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Paris
Programs: AA LT Plat (4m+), AF Plat, A3 Gold, Hyatt Lifetime Globalist, Marriott Plat, IHG Plat/Ambassador
Posts: 2,648
What amazes me is that there's still a "you can rebook for free, but only pay the fare difference" policy.
With many customers accepting vouchers to help out airlines even though they are lawfully owned a refund, this fare difference thing should NOT be a thing.
I had a flight ticket A<>Z. Give me the option to rebook another A<>Z at any other date WITHOUT fare difference being a factor. Get rid of your price calculation shenanigans.
It boggles me that the fare difference algorithm is still something going on. I'm seeing AMS<>BOS monitored flights jumping all over the place in price, up to €4000 in business class for flights that are a month out..
With many customers accepting vouchers to help out airlines even though they are lawfully owned a refund, this fare difference thing should NOT be a thing.
I had a flight ticket A<>Z. Give me the option to rebook another A<>Z at any other date WITHOUT fare difference being a factor. Get rid of your price calculation shenanigans.
It boggles me that the fare difference algorithm is still something going on. I'm seeing AMS<>BOS monitored flights jumping all over the place in price, up to €4000 in business class for flights that are a month out..
Seems extremely expensive until the regular schedule resumes in July (we hope...) but that's the case for a lot of routes because there are so few flights.
The summer is pricing normally-- 1750€ +/- RT in Business (as it has been for the past few years in my experience) but I am still seeing 1380€ RT in Business from September on...
May 10, 2020, 9:47 am
#353
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: Eurostar Carte Blanche, SBB-CFF-FFS GA-AG, SNCF Grand Voyageur LeClub
Posts: 7,836
Got a credit card refund, without asking, for the fees associated with an award booking where they (AF) had cancelled the flight. They explained to me that the vouchers solution would only apply to restricted fares.
May 10, 2020, 10:39 am
#354
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Paris
Programs: AA LT Plat (4m+), AF Plat, A3 Gold, Hyatt Lifetime Globalist, Marriott Plat, IHG Plat/Ambassador
Posts: 2,648
May 11, 2020, 12:00 am
#355
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 1
Hi there,
I booked directly with AF for mid-July flights from EDI to CDG.
These were connecting flights to go to the USA with Iberia, now cancelled by Iberia, and refunded with no problem at all.
Does anyone have any insight into when (or even if) AF will start to cancel flights booked for mid-July?
While flights up to the end of August can now be cancelled by the customer, I'd prefer that they cancel, rather than doing it myself, as I can then consider a credit card chargeback / court action to obtain a non-voucher refund.
Regards,
KB53.
I booked directly with AF for mid-July flights from EDI to CDG.
These were connecting flights to go to the USA with Iberia, now cancelled by Iberia, and refunded with no problem at all.
Does anyone have any insight into when (or even if) AF will start to cancel flights booked for mid-July?
While flights up to the end of August can now be cancelled by the customer, I'd prefer that they cancel, rather than doing it myself, as I can then consider a credit card chargeback / court action to obtain a non-voucher refund.
Regards,
KB53.
May 11, 2020, 1:34 am
#356
Join Date: May 2015
Location: RBA / TBS
Programs: AF Gold / Accor Gold / Hilton Diamond / TP Silver / A3 Gold
Posts: 2,746
If however they cancel the flights and you claim a refund , keep all conversations you had with them in case they refuse , so it will be useful to contact your bank or credit card issuer for chargeback
Last edited by fifty_two; May 11, 2020 at 4:50 am
May 11, 2020, 10:48 am
#357
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 14,352
For those of you who have booked your tickets in Sweden, the country's consumer authority has today ruled that anybody who has bought a ticket of any kind (flight, vacation, concert, you name it) is entitled to a full refund if the service has not been provided. No ifs, no buts, no exceptions.
Ruling here (in Swedish).
Johan
Ruling here (in Swedish).
Johan
Last edited by johan rebel; May 12, 2020 at 5:03 am Reason: dumb typo
May 11, 2020, 1:43 pm
#358
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Somewhere between AMS and ANR
Programs: Hilton Diamond, Marriott Platinum, Hyatt Globalist, United Platinum Premier, AF/KLM Platinum
Posts: 266
Well, KLM's voucher-policy instead of providing a refund has now made the frontpage of one of the biggest news sites of the Netherlands:
https://www.geenstijl.nl/5153392/zwanenzang/#more
https://www.geenstijl.nl/5153392/zwanenzang/#more
May 12, 2020, 4:48 am
#359
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: AMS
Programs: Hilton Diamond, FB Plat
Posts: 312
Well, KLM's voucher-policy instead of providing a refund has now made the frontpage of one of the biggest news sites of the Netherlands:
https://www.geenstijl.nl/5153392/zwanenzang/#more
https://www.geenstijl.nl/5153392/zwanenzang/#more
Last edited by Wunk; May 12, 2020 at 6:09 am
May 12, 2020, 9:21 am
#360
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 14,352
Johan