Old Mar 17, 20, 2:00 pm
FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides
Last edit by: oliver2002
Air France's rebooking policy: https://www.airfrance.nl/NL/en/common/page_flottante/hp/news-air-traffic-air-france.htm?_ga=2.60869669.82286185.1584471569-101309917.1487618201 KLM's rebooking policy: https://www.klm.com/travel/nl_nl/prepare_for_travel/up_to_date/flight_update/index.htm

Worksheet/flowchart for Travel Agents: http://image.email.bluebiz.info/lib/fe9013727c62017f75/m/4/575524f1-d29b-4548-b393-eb5ab0eee26b.pdf

European Commission EC261/2004 guidelines in context of COVD-19 dated 18 MAR 2020 US DoT Enforcement Notice regarding refunds dated 3 APR 2020.

Some additional information:
1) North American ticket holders can typically request chargebacks from their banks.
2) Furthermore, for flights that touch US soil, they may also file complains with the US DOT.
3) American Express in France and in the Netherlands reportedly refuse to open chargeback disputes for cardholders. Unclear whether other banks are following this policy.
4) At this stage, 14 EU member states out of 27 support amending EC261 regulation (which mandates airlines give the consumer the choice of a refund) for the duration of the crisis. Some of these member states have already suspended the enforcement of the regulation with respect to the obligation for a refund. Air France/KLM supports the proposed amendment.

Statement by 12 of these 14 EU member states: https://www.aviation24.be/miscellaneous/passenger-rights/coronavirus-twelve-eu-member-states-ask-commission-to-amend-regulation-ec-261-2004-to-allow-issuance-of-vouchers-in-lieu-of-refund/


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COVID-19: AF/KL rebooking/refund policy

Old May 13, 20, 12:58 pm
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Originally Posted by irishguy28 View Post
You introduced the measure as if it was new, and in the context that "This will hurt KL big time"...which heavily implies that you didn't think or know that it would have hurt for the past 6 weeks, or without explaining why, only now, it was going to start hurting KLM.

Also, by far the biggest "hurt" to KLM is the fact that entry to non-EU/EEA nationals (without good reason) has been barred for the last 2 months, thereby reducing their long-haul traffic to returning residents and essential travellers only.

As such, neither that letter nor the measures contained therein (which, in NL, are not mandatory - as the letter you posted states, "The Dutch government urges that you take the following measures to prevent spreading coronavirus when you arrive home or reach your destination" - nor any new Spanish quarantine requirement (which looks to have legal force of law) can be viewed as a new threat to KLM. It's something KLM (and most other airlines!) have been living with for almost 2 months.
No. KL has been hurt the last 6 weeks not because of the quarantine rule but because there was very little travel going on at all.
If travel resumes one way or the other and the quarantine rule is still in place, then yes KL will be hurt (and so will many other airliners).
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Old May 13, 20, 1:04 pm
  #662  
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Originally Posted by Dieuwer View Post
If travel resumes one way or the other and the quarantine rule is still in place, then yes KL will be hurt (and so will many other airliners).
The thing about this pandemic is that travel stopped suddenly, but will only re-start slowly.

The European Commission is currently urging the member states to coordinate on re-opening internal borders in as many as 3 stages, such that travel within Europe will begin to re-start.

For as long as the epidemic rages in certain parts of the world, you can definitely expect the requirement to self-isolate to remain in effect for arrivals from those areas into the Schengen states - though it will be interesting to see what steps the Schengen zone takes on the extension or amendment of the current entry ban. It's difficult to see, for example, a relaxation on entry for tourists from the United States for as long as the US maintains its entry ban on those arriving from the Schengen zone.
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Old May 13, 20, 1:08 pm
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Originally Posted by irishguy28 View Post
It's difficult to see, for example, a relaxation on entry for tourists from the United States for as long as the US maintains its entry ban on those arriving from the Schengen zone.
Finally you admit is it just political pandering and retaliation.
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Old May 13, 20, 1:13 pm
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From what i saw in the news ....french minister will provide a list of safe countries ...when you travel from no need to self isolate....source 20minutes
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Old May 13, 20, 2:29 pm
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Originally Posted by Dieuwer View Post
So what. The Dutch quarantine requirement has not been pulled and therefore is still in effect.
Well:

Voor inkomende passagiers vanuit hoog-risicogebieden gelden de volgende maatregelen:

- Een verplichte gezondheidsverklaring (met ingang van 17 april 2020, 18:00 uur).
- Passagiers wordt dringend geadviseerd om 14 dagen in quarantaine te gaan.
- Een EU-inreisverbod voor alle niet-noodzakelijke reizen van personen vanuit derde landen naar Europa (alle EU-lidstaten, Schengenlanden en het VK) tot 15 mei 2020.
Source: https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwe...zen-buitenland

“Dringend geadviseerd” is not the same as mandatory.
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Old May 13, 20, 2:41 pm
  #666  
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Originally Posted by Dieuwer View Post
Finally you admit is it just political pandering and retaliation.
Given who championed their introduction long after they would have been effective, that was never in doubt!
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Old May 14, 20, 8:05 am
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Yet another update to their policy:

http://image.email.bluebiz.info/lib/...bc2d2f83b5.pdf
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Old May 14, 20, 9:11 am
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Originally Posted by oliver2002 View Post
Yet another update to their policy:

http://image.email.bluebiz.info/lib/...bc2d2f83b5.pdf
Thanks,
I love the little foot note which says "Note: Due to the exceptional circumstances linked to the Covid-19 situation, if refunds for non-refundable tickets with at least 1 flight cancelled are requested via BSPlink, the refund request will be processed, with a delay of 12 months from the date of application"
So it basically says : We will refund you of course, but it will take 12 months for us to process your refund :-O
So can they claim that they respect EU 261/2004 regulation with that ?

Last edited by palmanfr; May 14, 20 at 9:22 am
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Old May 14, 20, 9:56 am
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No, because EU261 requires a refund within 7 days of the request.
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Old May 14, 20, 10:39 am
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Originally Posted by palmanfr View Post
Thanks,
I love the little foot note which says "Note: Due to the exceptional circumstances linked to the Covid-19 situation, if refunds for non-refundable tickets with at least 1 flight cancelled are requested via BSPlink, the refund request will be processed, with a delay of 12 months from the date of application"
So it basically says : We will refund you of course, but it will take 12 months for us to process your refund :-O
Which means this is equal to the voucher, which is also refundable after 12 months... Just that the voucher you can already use before.
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Old May 14, 20, 11:01 am
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Originally Posted by Carpacchio View Post
Which means this is equal to the voucher, which is also refundable after 12 months... Just that the voucher you can already use before.
Something to Tweet to the European Commission. Adina and the Danish woman who made the announcement yesterday.
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Old May 16, 20, 12:53 am
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From the updated KLM website regarding cancellation policy:

Flight cancelled by the airline on or after 14 May 2020

After careful consideration and in response to the the Dutch government’s reformed advice regarding the voucher policy offered by airlines, we are adjusting our refund policy for flights that are cancelled by the airline on or after 14 May 2020.

If your flight was cancelled by the airline on or after 14 May 2020, you can opt to request a cash refund or a voucher. The value of the voucher will be somewhat higher than the cash refund. This increased value also applies if you’ve already received your voucher.

We’ll soon update our website with the revised policies, additional instructions on how to request a cash refund, and more details on the increased value of travel vouchers.
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Old May 16, 20, 1:20 am
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Originally Posted by canadavid View Post
From the updated KLM website regarding cancellation policy:
Same revised policy for Air France.
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Old May 16, 20, 6:53 am
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UK resident here. Had my flights from Aberdeen to Lisbon cancelled twice now. 2nd time there were no rebooking options.

So apparently there was a change in the refund policy, for "cancellations taking place on 15th May and after. Concerned customers will be offered the choice of a voucher or a cash refund." Unfortunately my flight was cancelled the day before. Spoke to customer service on phone (took 30 mins!) and what'sapp. Not getting anywhere for cash refund.

Rang Amex, 10 mins on the phone, greeted by name. Dispute filed, chargeback sorted and account credited (KLM could provide Amex their version of events and reverse this of course).

For anyone else struggling with this, contact the airline in first instance (document conversations and save emails), and then get your credit card company to initiate the chargeback.

Make the (admittedly desperate somewhat) dishonest idiots pay!
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Old May 16, 20, 8:33 am
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Originally Posted by palmanfr View Post
Thanks,
I love the little foot note which says "Note: Due to the exceptional circumstances linked to the Covid-19 situation, if refunds for non-refundable tickets with at least 1 flight cancelled are requested via BSPlink, the refund request will be processed, with a delay of 12 months from the date of application"
So it basically says : We will refund you of course, but it will take 12 months for us to process your refund :-O
So can they claim that they respect EU 261/2004 regulation with that ?
Originally Posted by mfkne View Post
No, because EU261 requires a refund within 7 days of the request.
Same with US law. 7 day refund for credit card and 20 days for other forms of payments. US DoT is giving airlines so leeway with the 7 days but 365 days is nowhere reasonable.
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