Mar 17, 2020, 1:00 pm
Last edit by: oliver2002
Air France's rebooking policy: https://www.airfrance.nl/NL/en/common/page_flottante/hp/news-air-traffic-air-france.htm?_ga=2.60869669.82286185.1584471569-101309917.1487618201 KLM's rebooking policy: https://www.klm.com/travel/nl_nl/prepare_for_travel/up_to_date/flight_update/index.htm
Worksheet/flowchart for Travel Agents: http://image.email.bluebiz.info/lib/fe9013727c62017f75/m/4/575524f1-d29b-4548-b393-eb5ab0eee26b.pdf
European Commission EC261/2004 guidelines in context of COVD-19 dated 18 MAR 2020 US DoT Enforcement Notice regarding refunds dated 3 APR 2020.
Some additional information:
1) North American ticket holders can typically request chargebacks from their banks.
2) Furthermore, for flights that touch US soil, they may also file complains with the US DOT.
3) American Express in France and in the Netherlands reportedly refuse to open chargeback disputes for cardholders. Unclear whether other banks are following this policy.
4) At this stage, 14 EU member states out of 27 support amending EC261 regulation (which mandates airlines give the consumer the choice of a refund) for the duration of the crisis. Some of these member states have already suspended the enforcement of the regulation with respect to the obligation for a refund. Air France/KLM supports the proposed amendment.
Statement by 12 of these 14 EU member states: https://www.aviation24.be/miscellaneous/passenger-rights/coronavirus-twelve-eu-member-states-ask-commission-to-amend-regulation-ec-261-2004-to-allow-issuance-of-vouchers-in-lieu-of-refund/
Worksheet/flowchart for Travel Agents: http://image.email.bluebiz.info/lib/fe9013727c62017f75/m/4/575524f1-d29b-4548-b393-eb5ab0eee26b.pdf
European Commission EC261/2004 guidelines in context of COVD-19 dated 18 MAR 2020 US DoT Enforcement Notice regarding refunds dated 3 APR 2020.
Some additional information:
1) North American ticket holders can typically request chargebacks from their banks.
2) Furthermore, for flights that touch US soil, they may also file complains with the US DOT.
3) American Express in France and in the Netherlands reportedly refuse to open chargeback disputes for cardholders. Unclear whether other banks are following this policy.
4) At this stage, 14 EU member states out of 27 support amending EC261 regulation (which mandates airlines give the consumer the choice of a refund) for the duration of the crisis. Some of these member states have already suspended the enforcement of the regulation with respect to the obligation for a refund. Air France/KLM supports the proposed amendment.
Statement by 12 of these 14 EU member states: https://www.aviation24.be/miscellaneous/passenger-rights/coronavirus-twelve-eu-member-states-ask-commission-to-amend-regulation-ec-261-2004-to-allow-issuance-of-vouchers-in-lieu-of-refund/
COVID-19: AF/KL rebooking/refund policy
Apr 19, 2020, 7:08 am
#511
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Paris
Programs: AA LT Plat (4m+), AF Plat, A3 Gold, Hyatt Lifetime Globalist, Marriott Plat, IHG Plat/Ambassador
Posts: 2,648
[QUOTE=Xandrios;32306388]Has this become a common practice to just issue vouchers rather than offer rebooking?
I have some itineraries with canceled segments that I want to rebook. Booked them at a low (ish) fare and would like to change it to a new date that suits me.. Whenever I come up with such date. Getting a voucher for those would not fit me very well.
Another itinerary that I did request a voucher for has been silent for weeks now. No confirmation, no voucher, no nothing.[/QUOTE
well watch out. That’s what I had and then magically a voucher appeared in my inbox. It’s a clear shift in their policy and a sneaky, unethical one at that. They have admitted in writing they are doing this to “Some” tickets. I can’t help but wonder if they are selecting inexpensive fares to cancel.
The whole thing has been a shameful textbook case in flaunting law, ethics and good will.
The only thing I guess you could do is to ask that they put a notation not to cancel them. Why that should even be necessary is beyond me. But who knows what they will guarantee when they don’t even follow their own procedures.
I have some itineraries with canceled segments that I want to rebook. Booked them at a low (ish) fare and would like to change it to a new date that suits me.. Whenever I come up with such date. Getting a voucher for those would not fit me very well.
Another itinerary that I did request a voucher for has been silent for weeks now. No confirmation, no voucher, no nothing.[/QUOTE
well watch out. That’s what I had and then magically a voucher appeared in my inbox. It’s a clear shift in their policy and a sneaky, unethical one at that. They have admitted in writing they are doing this to “Some” tickets. I can’t help but wonder if they are selecting inexpensive fares to cancel.
The whole thing has been a shameful textbook case in flaunting law, ethics and good will.
The only thing I guess you could do is to ask that they put a notation not to cancel them. Why that should even be necessary is beyond me. But who knows what they will guarantee when they don’t even follow their own procedures.
Apr 19, 2020, 7:42 am
#512
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: In between BRU, AMS, DUS and LUX...
Programs: AF/KL Plat, BA Gold, A3 Gold, IHG Diamond, MR Gold, HH Diamond, ALL Platinum
Posts: 1,044
So if the flight is TO the USA, then the DOT can also help you. Any flight touching the US ground would be covered by USDOT regulations in my understanding (and I even think that bookings with a US point of sale are also covered even if no flights touch the US ground). That's my understanding of the rules. I would press on this when contacting AF. I only contated the USDOT once for an issue I had with AF a couple years ago and they were helpful in getting the airline reply prompty and without BS.
Apr 19, 2020, 7:56 am
#513
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: New York
Programs: MB-LTT , HH-Diam., HGP-Expl.
Posts: 778
Apr 19, 2020, 10:29 am
#514
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Paris
Programs: AA LT Plat (4m+), AF Plat, A3 Gold, Hyatt Lifetime Globalist, Marriott Plat, IHG Plat/Ambassador
Posts: 2,648
“U.S. and foreign airlines remain obligated to provide a prompt refund to passengers for flights to, within, or from the United States when the carrier cancels the passenger’s scheduled flight or makes a significant schedule change and the passenger chooses not to accept the alternative offered by the carrier. The obligation of airlines to provide refunds, including the ticket price and any optional fee charged for services a passenger is unable to use, does not cease when the flight disruptions are outside of the carrier’s control (e.g., a result of government restrictions).”
Apr 19, 2020, 12:18 pm
#515
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Paris, France
Programs: AF/KL Flying Blue Platinum for life/Club2000 Ultimate, Accor ALL Diamond
Posts: 21,918
Apr 19, 2020, 1:29 pm
#516
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Paris
Programs: AA LT Plat (4m+), AF Plat, A3 Gold, Hyatt Lifetime Globalist, Marriott Plat, IHG Plat/Ambassador
Posts: 2,648
See this from my conversation with AF. No offer to rebook. Voucher issued automatically. Not even consistent with their own stated policy.
I would also argue that it is more in their interest to give people vouchers since they have cash which is unsecured debt, whereas an issued ticket is a contract...
Last edited by bostontraveler; Apr 19, 2020 at 1:37 pm
Apr 20, 2020, 2:15 am
#517
Join Date: Feb 2015
Programs: AerClub Platinum, ClubCarlson Gold, Hhonors Silver, IHG Spire Elite, Hotels.com Gold, BA blue
Posts: 65
I've a fairly expensive trip to South America for late October, haven't heard anything from AF. Still scheduled as far as I can see.
Apr 20, 2020, 12:34 pm
#518
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Paris, France
Programs: AF/KL Flying Blue Platinum for life/Club2000 Ultimate, Accor ALL Diamond
Posts: 21,918
Apr 20, 2020, 2:55 pm
#519
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: New York City
Programs: DL DM & 2MM; Marriott Titanium
Posts: 663
Apr 20, 2020, 3:02 pm
#520
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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Location: Paris, France
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Posts: 21,918
Apr 22, 2020, 2:11 am
#521
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: GVA
Programs: A3 *G, LX *G, AF *S
Posts: 761
I would call them to enquire the status. I will give the case of a trip I booked for my sister last year which got cancelled by the AF/KL. I requested the voucher on April 4th and never heard anything back. When calling yesterday for another booking (for me), I asked the agent to look into their system for my sisters flight (booked via expedia) and she said that a voucher was issued on April 9th (yesterday was April 18th). Looks like they never sent the voucher, but it has the date of April 9th 2020 listed on it (Which means that she will be able to claim for a refund if not used on April 9th 2021...).
The same thing happend a couple times for me. I guess they are just operating this whole refund thing in a very very messy manner and emails are not always going out. I find their email/twitter service team pretty useless nowadays (except for one rebooking case I had). Agents on the phone can do much more, I would advise to call them if you cannot get things moving. The waiting tims I experienced on the elite line or PSL were very reasonable, no more than 5 minutes.
The same thing happend a couple times for me. I guess they are just operating this whole refund thing in a very very messy manner and emails are not always going out. I find their email/twitter service team pretty useless nowadays (except for one rebooking case I had). Agents on the phone can do much more, I would advise to call them if you cannot get things moving. The waiting tims I experienced on the elite line or PSL were very reasonable, no more than 5 minutes.
Apr 24, 2020, 12:02 am
#522
Join Date: Feb 2012
Programs: Flying Blue Platinum, Le ClubAccor Gold
Posts: 776
AF Website:
Conditions have been updated and now make a difference if the ticket has been issued before or after April 22.
Extension to June 2021 for rebooking.
For travel after December, I wonder how they manage the “original fare is available” as they have completely changed all fare structure as of April 15... Original fare will never be available unless you can find one which is valued at the same amount resulting in no fare difference?
KL website is written differently stating that the a different booking class should trigger a fare difference (meaning if you have a I fare, you just have to find I availibility ?)
If you purchased your ticket directly from our website or at an Air France agency, you can postpone your trip until 30 June 2021 at no extra cost for a trip beginning before 30 November 2020. If you wish to travel as of 1st December 2020, you may also postpone your departure date without incurring any modification fees. However, if the original fare is not available, you will have to pay any difference in fare.
Extension to June 2021 for rebooking.
For travel after December, I wonder how they manage the “original fare is available” as they have completely changed all fare structure as of April 15... Original fare will never be available unless you can find one which is valued at the same amount resulting in no fare difference?
KL website is written differently stating that the a different booking class should trigger a fare difference (meaning if you have a I fare, you just have to find I availibility ?)
If your new travel date is on or after 1 December 2020, you can change your travel dates if the same booking class as mentioned in your original ticket is available. If you change to a different booking class, you may need to pay the fare difference
Apr 24, 2020, 5:40 am
#523
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: NCE
Programs: FB Ultimate - BA EC - LH M&M - Accor All Gold
Posts: 267
French consumers association "UFC Que Choisir" is urging 57 airlines, including AF/KL, to respect passenger rights (sorry in French):
https://www.quechoisir.org/action-uf...iennes-n78871/
https://www.quechoisir.org/action-uf...iennes-n78871/
