Old Mar 17, 2020, 1:00 pm
FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides
Last edit by: oliver2002
Air France's rebooking policy: https://www.airfrance.nl/NL/en/common/page_flottante/hp/news-air-traffic-air-france.htm?_ga=2.60869669.82286185.1584471569-101309917.1487618201 KLM's rebooking policy: https://www.klm.com/travel/nl_nl/prepare_for_travel/up_to_date/flight_update/index.htm

Worksheet/flowchart for Travel Agents: http://image.email.bluebiz.info/lib/fe9013727c62017f75/m/4/575524f1-d29b-4548-b393-eb5ab0eee26b.pdf

European Commission EC261/2004 guidelines in context of COVD-19 dated 18 MAR 2020 US DoT Enforcement Notice regarding refunds dated 3 APR 2020.

Some additional information:
1) North American ticket holders can typically request chargebacks from their banks.
2) Furthermore, for flights that touch US soil, they may also file complains with the US DOT.
3) American Express in France and in the Netherlands reportedly refuse to open chargeback disputes for cardholders. Unclear whether other banks are following this policy.
4) At this stage, 14 EU member states out of 27 support amending EC261 regulation (which mandates airlines give the consumer the choice of a refund) for the duration of the crisis. Some of these member states have already suspended the enforcement of the regulation with respect to the obligation for a refund. Air France/KLM supports the proposed amendment.

Statement by 12 of these 14 EU member states: https://www.aviation24.be/miscellaneous/passenger-rights/coronavirus-twelve-eu-member-states-ask-commission-to-amend-regulation-ec-261-2004-to-allow-issuance-of-vouchers-in-lieu-of-refund/


​​​​​​​
Print Wikipost

COVID-19: AF/KL rebooking/refund policy

Old May 16, 2020, 8:00 am
  #676  
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: UK
Posts: 433
Hi there I rebooked a cancelled June trip to Tokyo for September, but I am now worried if AF doesn't cancel the flights despite restrictions continuing for Japan (i.e. 14 day quarantine). What would happen as the trip is only 7 days so it's not even possible to fulfil the 14 day quarantine?

It may have been silly to rebook, but I was really very limited with choice a few weeks ago. Taking the voucher wasn't an option in case they went bust, since as a student losing £800 is a huge amount for me. Also even in the case they are able to resume flights, the voucher value would almost certainly not stretch as far as Tokyo when flight prices increase.

I almost feel scammed out of my money, with any option being a potential loss. Even more so now with their latests changes to refunds...
jamestg is offline  
Old May 16, 2020, 8:10 am
  #677  
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Bristol
Programs: British Airways Executive Club
Posts: 117
Originally Posted by jamestg
Hi there I rebooked a cancelled June trip to Tokyo for September, but I am now worried if AF doesn't cancel the flights despite restrictions continuing for Japan (i.e. 14 day quarantine). What would happen as the trip is only 7 days so it's not even possible to fulfil the 14 day quarantine?

It may have been silly to rebook, but I was really very limited with choice a few weeks ago. Taking the voucher wasn't an option in case they went bust, since as a student losing £800 is a huge amount for me. Also even in the case they are able to resume flights, the voucher value would almost certainly not stretch as far as Tokyo when flight prices increase.

I almost feel scammed out of my money, with any option being a potential loss. Even more so now with their latests changes to refunds...
I would hold my cards here. Odds are the situation will change and you can enjoy your trip or the airline will cancel the flight as it would non-profitable. In the latter case, you could push for a cash refund.

What I definitely wouldn't do is cancel before the airline does. The reality is that a flag carrier like KLM is unlikely to go bankrupt, the government will have to support it.
palmanfr likes this.
Jonathan Ppang is offline  
Old May 16, 2020, 10:36 pm
  #678  
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Programs: FLYINGBLUE Gold QRPC Gold OMAN SINDBAD Gold
Posts: 418
Originally Posted by mfkne
No, because EU261 requires a refund within 7 days of the request.
Well, airlines like AF and KLM don't respect this law at present, and French or Dutch authorities don't care either...
bostontraveler likes this.
Alfredbali is offline  
Old May 17, 2020, 4:07 am
  #679  
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Paris, France
Programs: FB Gold
Posts: 87
On a different note from the refund issue, now that they are allowing rebooking for trips departing up to Aug 31, I went online to check possibilities of rebooking my family's long-ago booked summer vacation to a Christmas vacation and found that the site would not let me choose any dates past September 15 for the new dates. Anyone else have similar issues?
CanuckInParis is offline  
Old May 17, 2020, 4:46 am
  #680  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: EDI
Programs: FB Plat, BA Bronze, Hotels.com
Posts: 407
Originally Posted by Carpacchio
Which means this is equal to the voucher, which is also refundable after 12 months... Just that the voucher you can already use before.
Equal except the refund process for the voucher can start after a year, which could then take another year!
The doomed is offline  
Old May 19, 2020, 4:29 am
  #681  
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: NCE
Programs: FB Ultimate - BA EC - LH M&M - Accor All Gold
Posts: 268
After having exhorted 57 airlines to change their practice and respect passengers rigths (see post #523), French consumers association "UFC Que Choisir" is taking 20 airlines, including AF/KL, to court (sorry, link in French):

https://www.quechoisir.org/action-uf...iennes-n79519/
bostontraveler likes this.
SteveCanary is offline  
Old May 19, 2020, 6:45 am
  #682  
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: NCE
Programs: FB Ultimate - BA EC - LH M&M - Accor All Gold
Posts: 268
Originally Posted by JOUY31
Same revised policy for Air France.
Even after today's updates, I couldn't find AF revised policy on their site. Only eared this on french news. Do you have any link ?
SteveCanary is offline  
Old May 20, 2020, 7:59 am
  #683  
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: EZE
Programs: UA Gold,Delta Gold Bonvoy Titanium Elite, HH Diamond , AA Platinum, EENational, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 1,582
A data point for refunds. I had 2 one way tickets ( FLL-ATL-CDG-AMM ) codeshared DL/AF in which a significant schedule changed occurred ( FLL-ATL-AMS-CDG-AMM ). Called Amex Travel to see if a full refund was possible; held for about 5 minutes as she contacted AF and came back that a refund was approved. Let me know that it can take up to 45 days as per the script. Good to know AF has loosened their stance on refunds.
Brandinho1 is offline  
Old May 20, 2020, 8:04 am
  #684  
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Paris
Programs: AA LT Plat (4m+), AF Plat, A3 Gold, Hyatt Lifetime Globalist, Marriott Plat, IHG Plat/Ambassador
Posts: 2,671
Originally Posted by Brandinho1
A data point for refunds. I had 2 one way tickets ( FLL-ATL-CDG-AMM ) codeshared DL/AF in which a significant schedule changed occurred ( FLL-ATL-AMS-CDG-AMM ). Called Amex Travel to see if a full refund was possible; held for about 5 minutes as she contacted AF and came back that a refund was approved. Let me know that it can take up to 45 days as per the script. Good to know AF has loosened their stance on refunds.
thatís good news!
Iím waiting to hear what happens here in Europe where there is no DOT....
bostontraveler is offline  
Old May 20, 2020, 1:43 pm
  #685  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: PVG, FRA, SEA, HEL
Programs: UA Premier Gold
Posts: 4,783
held for about 5 minutes as she contacted AF and came back that a refund was approved. Let me know that it can take up to 45 days as per the script.
Words are cheap.
bostontraveler likes this.
warakorn is offline  
Old May 20, 2020, 2:09 pm
  #686  
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 995
Originally Posted by warakorn
Words are cheap.
LOL, too true. There's a whole Facebook group of people who were told "Yes" for a refund, and they got a refund in the form of a voucher. KLM/AF dropped the ball, and appears to have made a lot of people very disappointed.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/2539386469633337
smartytravel is offline  
Old May 21, 2020, 4:56 am
  #687  
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: mostly not far from AMS, otherwise NUE
Programs: FB Silver, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 2,396
After my successful chargeback via AMEX NL of a cancelled KL flight, I have been contacted by AMEX again, saying KLM had gotten back and they needed proof that I had tried to get my money back first. I have provided that now, but I cannot believe the balls KLM have to try to dispute a chargeback for publicly know violations of EU passenger rights.
mfkne is offline  
Old May 21, 2020, 5:50 am
  #688  
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Paris
Programs: AA LT Plat (4m+), AF Plat, A3 Gold, Hyatt Lifetime Globalist, Marriott Plat, IHG Plat/Ambassador
Posts: 2,671
Originally Posted by mfkne
After my successful chargeback via AMEX NL of a cancelled KL flight, I have been contacted by AMEX again, saying KLM had gotten back and they needed proof that I had tried to get my money back first. I have provided that now, but I cannot believe the balls KLM have to try to dispute a chargeback for publicly know violations of EU passenger rights.

unbelievable.
bostontraveler is offline  
Old May 23, 2020, 9:29 am
  #689  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: Eurostar Carte Blanche, SBB-CFF-FFS GA-AG, SNCF Grand Voyageur LeClub
Posts: 7,878
Some confusion here: AF has cancelled the return flight of a round-trip to Brazil. Rather than re-book it to a later date (not sure when I can go to Brazil again) I would like a refund for that cancelled flight. The ticket is in fully refundable booking classes (outbound was in P, return in J) - so how will they treat this? Like "normally", i.e. re-price this as a one way ticket and then refund the difference if there is any? Or take the part of the ticket that corresponds to the return flight and reimburse that, leaving the flown outbound part as if it had been part of a round-trip?

The former would clearly not be desirable. But something tells me that they're just pulling off exactly that on me. I had asked for a refund more than a week ago already, nothing happened, and now that I called again they said something which sounded more like the "reprice this as a one-way". But even after asking again they couldn't be clear.

Any experience with situations like this?

For the record, I'd even be happy with a voucher, it's the amount of the refund that worries me.
San Gottardo is offline  
Old May 23, 2020, 9:53 am
  #690  
 
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 5
Does anyone know when the flights between CDG and destinations in Croatia will resume? any info maybe?
AirbusZAG is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Manage Preferences Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.