Mar 17, 2020, 1:00 pm
Last edit by: oliver2002
Air France's rebooking policy: https://www.airfrance.nl/NL/en/common/page_flottante/hp/news-air-traffic-air-france.htm?_ga=2.60869669.82286185.1584471569-101309917.1487618201 KLM's rebooking policy: https://www.klm.com/travel/nl_nl/prepare_for_travel/up_to_date/flight_update/index.htm
Worksheet/flowchart for Travel Agents: http://image.email.bluebiz.info/lib/fe9013727c62017f75/m/4/575524f1-d29b-4548-b393-eb5ab0eee26b.pdf
European Commission EC261/2004 guidelines in context of COVD-19 dated 18 MAR 2020 US DoT Enforcement Notice regarding refunds dated 3 APR 2020.
Some additional information:
1) North American ticket holders can typically request chargebacks from their banks.
2) Furthermore, for flights that touch US soil, they may also file complains with the US DOT.
3) American Express in France and in the Netherlands reportedly refuse to open chargeback disputes for cardholders. Unclear whether other banks are following this policy.
4) At this stage, 14 EU member states out of 27 support amending EC261 regulation (which mandates airlines give the consumer the choice of a refund) for the duration of the crisis. Some of these member states have already suspended the enforcement of the regulation with respect to the obligation for a refund. Air France/KLM supports the proposed amendment.
Statement by 12 of these 14 EU member states: https://www.aviation24.be/miscellaneous/passenger-rights/coronavirus-twelve-eu-member-states-ask-commission-to-amend-regulation-ec-261-2004-to-allow-issuance-of-vouchers-in-lieu-of-refund/
Worksheet/flowchart for Travel Agents: http://image.email.bluebiz.info/lib/fe9013727c62017f75/m/4/575524f1-d29b-4548-b393-eb5ab0eee26b.pdf
European Commission EC261/2004 guidelines in context of COVD-19 dated 18 MAR 2020 US DoT Enforcement Notice regarding refunds dated 3 APR 2020.
Some additional information:
1) North American ticket holders can typically request chargebacks from their banks.
2) Furthermore, for flights that touch US soil, they may also file complains with the US DOT.
3) American Express in France and in the Netherlands reportedly refuse to open chargeback disputes for cardholders. Unclear whether other banks are following this policy.
4) At this stage, 14 EU member states out of 27 support amending EC261 regulation (which mandates airlines give the consumer the choice of a refund) for the duration of the crisis. Some of these member states have already suspended the enforcement of the regulation with respect to the obligation for a refund. Air France/KLM supports the proposed amendment.
Statement by 12 of these 14 EU member states: https://www.aviation24.be/miscellaneous/passenger-rights/coronavirus-twelve-eu-member-states-ask-commission-to-amend-regulation-ec-261-2004-to-allow-issuance-of-vouchers-in-lieu-of-refund/
COVID-19: AF/KL rebooking/refund policy
May 10, 2020, 11:09 am
#631
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Birmingham, UK
Posts: 205
I booked flights at the start of the year directly on the Air France website for travel at the end of July. In discounted Premium Economy (A). The Air France website says on the COVID page I can change my booking in "My Bookings" but when I log in my booking says "Your reservation cannot be modified online. For more information please contact your point of sale."
Is there any way I can sort this out without trying to speak to someone?
Is there any way I can sort this out without trying to speak to someone?
May 10, 2020, 11:18 am
#632
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Paris, France
Programs: FB Gold
Posts: 87
I booked flights at the start of the year directly on the Air France website for travel at the end of July. In discounted Premium Economy (A). The Air France website says on the COVID page I can change my booking in "My Bookings" but when I log in my booking says "Your reservation cannot be modified online. For more information please contact your point of sale."
Is there any way I can sort this out without trying to speak to someone?
Is there any way I can sort this out without trying to speak to someone?
May 11, 2020, 4:05 am
#634
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: mostly not far from AMS, otherwise NUE
Programs: FB Silver, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 2,381
May 11, 2020, 4:41 am
#635
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Paris
Programs: AA LT Plat (4m+), AF Plat, A3 Gold, Hyatt Lifetime Globalist, Marriott Plat, IHG Plat/Ambassador
Posts: 2,648
Amex in NL credits refunds to your bank account so quickly? Refunds on my French and Italian cards go onto my Amex account and are refunded only if I have a credit balance for moire than a billing cycle...
May 11, 2020, 6:46 am
#636
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: mostly not far from AMS, otherwise NUE
Programs: FB Silver, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 2,381
In my case it was a cancelled card, and I actually called them immediately once the permanent credit arrived on the card to have it refunded. I had a balance on that card before (after cancelling it), and back then they sent me a letter asking them to call them to tell them where to refund the money, so that's why I didn't wait this time.
May 11, 2020, 7:41 am
#637
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Paris
Programs: AA LT Plat (4m+), AF Plat, A3 Gold, Hyatt Lifetime Globalist, Marriott Plat, IHG Plat/Ambassador
Posts: 2,648
In my case it was a cancelled card, and I actually called them immediately once the permanent credit arrived on the card to have it refunded. I had a balance on that card before (after cancelling it), and back then they sent me a letter asking them to call them to tell them where to refund the money, so that's why I didn't wait this time.
May 11, 2020, 11:22 am
#638
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 107
Received another email from AF stating that my cancellation request was processed on 04/27 and I will be getting a refund. I had submitted the online form back in mid April but since I didn't get any notice, I ended up calling in on April 26 to cancel and they sent confirmation of the cancellation next day. At least I know I'll be a getting a refund. They stated it can take up 8 weeks. Let's see if I get it back my the end of June
May 11, 2020, 9:31 pm
#639
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 27
I received my KLM voucher. Now how do I use it? Do I have to call in and make a booking to use it? It seems to imply I can use it online but there are so many numbers on my voucher I wouldn't even know what to input. Is is the same process if I wanted to use it towards a Kenya Airlines flight? Also, voucher says it expires from 1 yr it was issued. Does that mean I have to travel within 1 yr of it being issued? Or that I need to book within 1 yr? Thanks!
May 11, 2020, 11:52 pm
#640
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: CMN,DXB,CDG
Programs: Flying Blue Platinum
Posts: 764
I received my KLM voucher. Now how do I use it? Do I have to call in and make a booking to use it? It seems to imply I can use it online but there are so many numbers on my voucher I wouldn't even know what to input. Is is the same process if I wanted to use it towards a Kenya Airlines flight? Also, voucher says it expires from 1 yr it was issued. Does that mean I have to travel within 1 yr of it being issued? Or that I need to book within 1 yr? Thanks!
you can buy any flight coded AF or KL on their website, including flights operated by Kenya airways (though in this case that would most likely include flights to/from European destinations and a handful of African destinations. Flight between Nairobi and Mumbai for instance, would not be available as they don’t have AF or KL codeshares)
you have to book within a year, to effectively travel between now and 2 years from now. So usually date of booking +365 days is the limit, and date of booking can be up to 1 year after your voucher was issued
May 12, 2020, 12:12 am
#641
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 293
you can use the EMD number on the voucher, that’s the code you are supposed to enter, to be entered at the payment stage of your booking, either online on AF or KL website, or over the phone (not available through OTA obviously)
you can buy any flight coded AF or KL on their website, including flights operated by Kenya airways (though in this case that would most likely include flights to/from European destinations and a handful of African destinations. Flight between Nairobi and Mumbai for instance, would not be available as they don’t have AF or KL codeshares)
you have to book within a year, to effectively travel between now and 2 years from now. So usually date of booking +365 days is the limit, and date of booking can be up to 1 year after your voucher was issued
you can buy any flight coded AF or KL on their website, including flights operated by Kenya airways (though in this case that would most likely include flights to/from European destinations and a handful of African destinations. Flight between Nairobi and Mumbai for instance, would not be available as they don’t have AF or KL codeshares)
you have to book within a year, to effectively travel between now and 2 years from now. So usually date of booking +365 days is the limit, and date of booking can be up to 1 year after your voucher was issued
May 12, 2020, 2:25 am
#642
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Paris, France
Programs: AF/KL Flying Blue Platinum for life/Club2000 Ultimate, Accor ALL Diamond
Posts: 21,922
If you have a FB account and are connected to your profile for a booking, your available EMD appear automatically in the voucher section of the payment page so you don't have to enter all the digits. At least this is true for AF website (not sure for KL).
May 12, 2020, 2:36 am
#643
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 227
I am trying to obtain a refund for a transatlantic flight from Air France. Their Hungary regional office in charge of the ticket is saying there is a 20 EUR "refund fee" which is an "administrative fee". They also confirmed, after I asked, that this fee is not in the fare conditions and is an internal policy that they cannot share. Also, they said, after I sought further clarification:
"In case of a voluntary ticket cancellation, you will be charged with a 20 euro refund fee per ticket."
Is this BS? Is this allowed under EU regulations? I searched through this thread and could not find mention of this issue yet. Wonder if any other have seen this. If I accept the refund minus the fee, it would make chargeback with Amex or Chase much more complicated I assume.
"In case of a voluntary ticket cancellation, you will be charged with a 20 euro refund fee per ticket."
Is this BS? Is this allowed under EU regulations? I searched through this thread and could not find mention of this issue yet. Wonder if any other have seen this. If I accept the refund minus the fee, it would make chargeback with Amex or Chase much more complicated I assume.
May 12, 2020, 2:39 am
#644
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Paris, France
Programs: AF/KL Flying Blue Platinum for life/Club2000 Ultimate, Accor ALL Diamond
Posts: 21,922
I am trying to obtain a refund for a transatlantic flight from Air France. Their Hungary regional office in charge of the ticket is saying there is a 20 EUR "refund fee" which is an "administrative fee". They also confirmed, after I asked, that this fee is not in the fare conditions and is an internal policy that they cannot share. Also, they said, after I sought further clarification:
"In case of a voluntary ticket cancellation, you will be charged with a 20 euro refund fee per ticket."
Is this BS? Is this allowed under EU regulations? I searched through this thread and could not find mention of this issue yet. Wonder if any other have seen this. If I accept the refund minus the fee, it would make chargeback with Amex or Chase much more complicated I assume.
"In case of a voluntary ticket cancellation, you will be charged with a 20 euro refund fee per ticket."
Is this BS? Is this allowed under EU regulations? I searched through this thread and could not find mention of this issue yet. Wonder if any other have seen this. If I accept the refund minus the fee, it would make chargeback with Amex or Chase much more complicated I assume.
May 12, 2020, 2:47 am
#645
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 227