Old Mar 17, 2020, 1:00 pm
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Last edit by: oliver2002
Air France's rebooking policy: https://www.airfrance.nl/NL/en/common/page_flottante/hp/news-air-traffic-air-france.htm?_ga=2.60869669.82286185.1584471569-101309917.1487618201 KLM's rebooking policy: https://www.klm.com/travel/nl_nl/prepare_for_travel/up_to_date/flight_update/index.htm

Worksheet/flowchart for Travel Agents: http://image.email.bluebiz.info/lib/fe9013727c62017f75/m/4/575524f1-d29b-4548-b393-eb5ab0eee26b.pdf

European Commission EC261/2004 guidelines in context of COVD-19 dated 18 MAR 2020 US DoT Enforcement Notice regarding refunds dated 3 APR 2020.

Some additional information:
1) North American ticket holders can typically request chargebacks from their banks.
2) Furthermore, for flights that touch US soil, they may also file complains with the US DOT.
3) American Express in France and in the Netherlands reportedly refuse to open chargeback disputes for cardholders. Unclear whether other banks are following this policy.
4) At this stage, 14 EU member states out of 27 support amending EC261 regulation (which mandates airlines give the consumer the choice of a refund) for the duration of the crisis. Some of these member states have already suspended the enforcement of the regulation with respect to the obligation for a refund. Air France/KLM supports the proposed amendment.

Statement by 12 of these 14 EU member states: https://www.aviation24.be/miscellaneous/passenger-rights/coronavirus-twelve-eu-member-states-ask-commission-to-amend-regulation-ec-261-2004-to-allow-issuance-of-vouchers-in-lieu-of-refund/


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COVID-19: AF/KL rebooking/refund policy

Old May 26, 2020, 8:54 am
  #706  
 
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I just spoke to KLM and was told that the schedule for July flights will be published at the latest mid next week (3 June?). The current revised schedule is until 3 July, so that is 1-2 month ahead depending on if your flight is in the beginning or end of the month.

The current flexibility program is for flights up to 31 August 2020. I also wanted to cancel a flight for Oct 2020 and was advised by the agent to wait about 2 months because they will most likely move the 31 August date as well, that way I would not need to pay the cancellation fee (Award booking).
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Old May 26, 2020, 8:58 am
  #707  
 
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Originally Posted by Brendan88
I just spoke to KLM and was told that the schedule for July flights will be published at the latest mid next week (3 June?). The current revised schedule is until 3 July, so that is 1-2 month ahead depending on if your flight is in the beginning or end of the month.

The current flexibility program is for flights up to 31 August 2020. I also wanted to cancel a flight for Oct 2020 and was advised by the agent to wait about 2 months because they will most likely move the 31 August date as well, that way I would not need to pay the cancellation fee (Award booking).
Thanks for that, I guess it's a case of wait & see then.
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Old May 26, 2020, 9:23 am
  #708  
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Originally Posted by paulieccc
My only hope is that the connecting flight from DUB>AMS is cancelled so I can at least get a voucher instead of full forfeiture.
You can already request a voucher - there simply is no question of "full forfeiture" of the type suggested by that remark.

As a request to cancel coming from you would lead to a non-refundable voucher with a face value of 115% of the price paid, you would be advised to wait until it becomes clear whether your ticket is affected by a cancellation. My expectation is, however, that past 4 July there will be sufficient DUB-AMS flights that your ticket is still "doable" even if the specific DUB-AMS flight you are currently on is cancelled, so that you may find yourself rebooked onto an operating flight with a slight delay but overall may struggle to get a direct refund on the basis of a cancellation.

There has been a DUB-AMS KLM flight (almost*?) every day throughout the pandemic.

But please come back and let us know what happens...

(*a single KL flight has been scheduled daily throughout the entire period, but may have, on some days, not been operated for other reasons)

EDIT: given that the AMS-GIG flight leaves at 15:00 on the days it operates, I don't foresee much change of your ticket being cancelled or becoming inoperable...
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Old May 26, 2020, 9:26 am
  #709  
 
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Originally Posted by Brandinho1
A data point for refunds. I had 2 one way tickets ( FLL-ATL-CDG-AMM ) codeshared DL/AF in which a significant schedule changed occurred ( FLL-ATL-AMS-CDG-AMM ). Called Amex Travel to see if a full refund was possible; held for about 5 minutes as she contacted AF and came back that a refund was approved. Let me know that it can take up to 45 days as per the script. Good to know AF has loosened their stance on refunds.
Refund posted today. So 6 days for the refund to hit my card. Not bad
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Old May 26, 2020, 10:59 am
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Originally Posted by irishguy28
You can already request a voucher - there simply is no question of "full forfeiture" of the type suggested by that remark.

As a request to cancel coming from you would lead to a non-refundable voucher with a face value of 115% of the price paid, you would be advised to wait until it becomes clear whether your ticket is affected by a cancellation. My expectation is, however, that past 4 July there will be sufficient DUB-AMS flights that your ticket is still "doable" even if the specific DUB-AMS flight you are currently on is cancelled, so that you may find yourself rebooked onto an operating flight with a slight delay but overall may struggle to get a direct refund on the basis of a cancellation.
Oh, this is interesting. I thought requesting a voucher was only for:

1. Canceled flights
2. If your trip was departing before 31 August 2020.

The only option I see in my bookings is in the event of a cancelation:




I'd gladly take a voucher now and use it to fly to less of a hotspot. Might give them a call and assess my options as the website is a carousel of obfuscation... Cheers for the info.
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Old May 26, 2020, 11:36 am
  #711  
 
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Originally Posted by paulieccc
Oh, this is interesting. I thought requesting a voucher was only for:

1. Canceled flights
2. If your trip was departing before 31 August 2020.

The only option I see in my bookings is in the event of a cancelation:




I'd gladly take a voucher now and use it to fly to less of a hotspot. Might give them a call and assess my options as the website is a carousel of obfuscation... Cheers for the info.
You are right. In case you have booked your ticket before April 21st, you can just wait for them to extend the cut-off date beyond August 31st, which might happen next week when they publish the July-August schedule.

In case you booked your ticket from April 22nd, then your ticket is changeable with no fee.
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Old May 26, 2020, 1:02 pm
  #712  
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Originally Posted by paulieccc
Oh, this is interesting. I thought requesting a voucher was only for:

1. Canceled flights
2. If your trip was departing before 31 August 2020.
Sorry, I overlooked the fact that your flight isn't for another 5 months...

I think you will need to wait much, much longer before it becomes clear what conditions will apply to your journey, if any deviations from the original conditions will ever apply.

(But given that your journey remained "possible" all through the peak of the pandemic, I don't think it's likely that your ticket for October will be cancelled)
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Old May 26, 2020, 1:57 pm
  #713  
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Originally Posted by paulieccc
How far in advance do AF make a call on their schedules; cancellations etc?

I'm booked on an AMS > GIG flight in October but considering the mess Brazil is in at the moment, it's the last place I want to visit.
KL705 (AMS>GIG) has continued to operate throughout March and April which I can only assume are continuing repatriation flights. My only hope is that the connecting flight from DUB>AMS is cancelled so I can at least get a voucher instead of full forfeiture.
So many good or bad things can happen for Covid and Brazil between now and october, you have plenty of time to study how it is evolving. I hope it will be under control in Brazil by then. Cancellations generally occur 2 to 4 weeks before.
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Old May 26, 2020, 2:32 pm
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Originally Posted by canadavid
You are right. In case you have booked your ticket before April 21st, you can just wait for them to extend the cut-off date beyond August 31st, which might happen next week when they publish the July-August schedule.

In case you booked your ticket from April 22nd, then your ticket is changeable with no fee.
Yeah, booked on Feb 2 unfortunately.

Originally Posted by irishguy28
Sorry, I overlooked the fact that your flight isn't for another 5 months...

I think you will need to wait much, much longer before it becomes clear what conditions will apply to your journey, if any deviations from the original conditions will ever apply.

(But given that your journey remained "possible" all through the peak of the pandemic, I don't think it's likely that your ticket for October will be cancelled)
Yeah, hence my earlier possible forfeiture comment.

Originally Posted by Goldorak
So many good or bad things can happen for Covid and Brazil between now and october, you have plenty of time to study how it is evolving. I hope it will be under control in Brazil by then. Cancellations generally occur 2 to 4 weeks before.
Yeah, I agree but my other half isn't having it. I've asked her not to completely throw in the towel just yet. We'll reassess in late August/early Sept but right now, it looks very unlikely we'll go on that trip which sucks.
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Old May 27, 2020, 11:11 pm
  #715  
 
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From the KLM website, some information on the 15% top-up on voucher:

I find it quite restrictive in the timeframe to use, especially if you have a large amount.

2. Request a refund in the form of a travel voucher

If you choose to postpone your trip, we will provide you with a refund in the form of a travel voucher.
  • Your travel voucher is valid to use until 31 December 2021 and can be used on KLM, Air France, Delta Air Lines, Virgin Atlantic, and Kenya Airways flights.
  • You can use your voucher to book a flight that takes place after the expiration date of the voucher.
  • You’ll profit from a 15% bonus if you use the voucher as a payment method before 30 September 2020, and your new scheduled departure date is before 15 June 2021.
  • If your flight has been cancelled by the airline, your travel voucher is refundable after 1 year from the date of issue. If you’ve requested a voucher while your flight was not cancelled by the airline, the travel voucher is non-refundable.
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Old May 28, 2020, 1:21 am
  #716  
 
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AF: Refundable voucher for voluntary cancellation ?

AF have update their policy on May 27th now saying that they offer refundable vouchers for flights before August 31st even if the flight is not cancelled by the airline.


KL says the opposite and nothing related to the 15% bonus on AF...

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Old May 28, 2020, 1:27 am
  #717  
 
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Originally Posted by SteveCanary

AF have update their policy on May 27th now saying that they offer refundable vouchers for flights before August 31st even if the flight is not cancelled by the airline.




KL says the opposite and nothing related to the 15% bonus on AF...

God almighty.. this has to be la crme de la crme of all things convoluted... by design of course... which is the worst part. 👹
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Old May 28, 2020, 4:32 am
  #718  
 
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Originally Posted by canadavid
From the KLM website, some information on the 15% top-up on voucher:

I find it quite restrictive in the timeframe to use, especially if you have a large amount.
So they have allowed people to go for the voucher option with the promise that they would get a 15% bonus. And then they retroactively create some limitations on how you can utilize this bonus. No customer deception here at all....

Also the cutoff dates do not seem to be chosen by accident. They have to be flown before the next summer holidays, which is of course when people would want to use them. And not many people are going to be booking travel before September because there is too much uncertainty,

I hope the ACM (Dutch consumer protection agency) is going to take action on this, however given the earlier stance of the Dutch government this seems unlikely...
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Old May 29, 2020, 2:30 am
  #719  
 
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Is there a pilot in the plane ?

New policy change for AF on May 28th. Wow ! In case of voluntary cancellation, they now "offer" refundable vouchers only for refundable original tickets...

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Old May 29, 2020, 3:09 am
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Originally Posted by SteveCanary
New policy change for AF on May 28th. Wow ! In case of voluntary cancellation, they now "offer" refundable vouchers only for refundable original tickets...

I have lost track of the 10 or so changes... this doesnt seem particularly attractive (and adds even more confusion)... or am I missing something?
The multiple before dates x, after dates y are beyond annoying. How about give us the refund NOW as is mandated by European law??
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