Apr 6, 20, 8:58 am
Last edit by: seawolf
European Commission EC261/2004 guidelines in context of COVD-19 dated 18 MAR 2020
US DoT Enforcement Notice regarding refunds dated 3 APR 2020.
US DoT Enforcement Notice regarding refunds dated 3 APR 2020.
COVID-19: refund provided as voucher (for non refundable fares)
Apr 20, 20, 1:23 pm
#286
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Paris
Programs: AA LT Plat (4m+), AF Plat, A3 Gold, Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Plat, IHG Plat/Ambassador
Posts: 2,365
Originally Posted by Carpacchio
You can - according to EU regulations, when a flight is cancelled by the airline, YOU can decide whether you want to be rebooked or refunded (under conditions, e.g. if the airline is in the EU, or the flight starts in the EU).)
Good luck with that. In theory yes but in practice thats not always happening.
Apr 20, 20, 1:28 pm
#287
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Paris
Programs: AA LT Plat (4m+), AF Plat, A3 Gold, Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Plat, IHG Plat/Ambassador
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Originally Posted by Charmcity
Apr 20, 20, 2:50 pm
#288
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: GVA
Programs: A3 *G, LX *G, AF *S
Posts: 670
Originally Posted by bostontraveler
Good luck with that. In theory yes but in practice thats not always happening.
Ok - joke aside, I guess the correct answer would be: you have a theoretical legal right, but the practical enforcing of it is questionable.
Apr 20, 20, 3:10 pm
#289
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Paris
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Posts: 2,365
Originally Posted by Carpacchio
Oh - so laws are optional ? Good to hear...
Ok - joke aside, I guess the correct answer would be: you have a theoretical legal right, but the practical enforcing of it is questionable.
Ok - joke aside, I guess the correct answer would be: you have a theoretical legal right, but the practical enforcing of it is questionable.
Grrr....
Apr 21, 20, 5:41 am
#290
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Paris
Posts: 1,290
Originally Posted by bostontraveler
You also cant use them for another passenger.
I am not holding my breath that AF is going to loosen the rules. It is in their interest to issue vouchers since they keep cash, which is unsecured debt. The more cash they keep the less the government has to give them. Which is why the government is giving it tacit approval to do whatever it wants.
Im also not surprised this cant be used to pay for award tickets, although the YQ collected is profit. With oil at $15 a barrel it shouldnt even be collected but thats another story.
The finance and legal teams will get a nice bonus for all of this. But they deserve an F- for ethics.
I am not holding my breath that AF is going to loosen the rules. It is in their interest to issue vouchers since they keep cash, which is unsecured debt. The more cash they keep the less the government has to give them. Which is why the government is giving it tacit approval to do whatever it wants.
Im also not surprised this cant be used to pay for award tickets, although the YQ collected is profit. With oil at $15 a barrel it shouldnt even be collected but thats another story.
The finance and legal teams will get a nice bonus for all of this. But they deserve an F- for ethics.
Apr 21, 20, 1:18 pm
#291
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Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 14,335
Originally Posted by Carpacchio
the correct answer would be: you have a theoretical legal right, but the practical enforcing of it is questionable.
Source (in Dutch).
Apr 21, 20, 1:24 pm
#292
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: AMS / ATH
Programs: AFKL Plat, A3 Gold
Posts: 6,571
But its not just KL doing that. Pretty much all of Europe is. In GR the government has even made it official for the whole tourism sector:
https://news.gtp.gr/2020/04/08/covid...stead-refunds/
In another example two of my Ryanair flights got canceled. One originating in NL, the other in IT. Received an email with a link to apply for a refund. Great I thought...Ryanair is believed to have the best Cash reserves in the business...lets try to get back that money. After about a month I just received... a voucher. One that expires in 12 months with no option to convert it into cash at the end.
https://news.gtp.gr/2020/04/08/covid...stead-refunds/
In another example two of my Ryanair flights got canceled. One originating in NL, the other in IT. Received an email with a link to apply for a refund. Great I thought...Ryanair is believed to have the best Cash reserves in the business...lets try to get back that money. After about a month I just received... a voucher. One that expires in 12 months with no option to convert it into cash at the end.
Apr 21, 20, 4:34 pm
#293
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: GVA
Programs: A3 *G, LX *G, AF *S
Posts: 670
Originally Posted by johan rebel
The European Commission has warned the Dutch cabinet minister Van Nieuwenhuizen that EC 261 has to be followed, no ifs, no buts. Airlines have to refund tickets if the customer so desires, and if the Dutch government refuses to enforce EC 261 then the EC will start procedures against it.
Source (in Dutch).
Source (in Dutch).
Apr 21, 20, 11:21 pm
#294
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 85
Flight on 05/05 from PRG > AMS was cancelled by KLM on 4/18 and then auto rescheduled to a earlier time. Submitted cancellation request on 04/19 for indicating flight was cancelled and clicked refund and back onto credit card.
04/21, the booking of revised time and prior flight both show cancelled and no longer a active booking. Didn't get any email or anything indicating. Curious to see what I get from Air France, I would prefer a full refund ideally. If I did a get voucher, I prefer getting the one that would refund you if the voucher wasn't used within a year versus the one where it was non refundable if not used.
Book through Airfrance US.
04/21, the booking of revised time and prior flight both show cancelled and no longer a active booking. Didn't get any email or anything indicating. Curious to see what I get from Air France, I would prefer a full refund ideally. If I did a get voucher, I prefer getting the one that would refund you if the voucher wasn't used within a year versus the one where it was non refundable if not used.
Book through Airfrance US.
Apr 22, 20, 4:57 am
#295
Join Date: Sep 2015
Programs: Flying Blue, Miles & Smiles
Posts: 355
Well I had a flight that was cancelled due to the Flybe Collapse. I rang and was granted a cash refund: This was March 10.
Now, I get this email, April 22:
The outbreak of the coronavirus has led to significant impacts on all industries, the aviation industry is facing major challenges with unforeseen consequences right now. Unfortunately, as you experienced, many of our flights are cancelled. We are doing everything possible to assist our customers in rearranging their travel plans. Given the exceptional circumstances, we will issue your refund request by a voucher in the amount of your original ticket price, to use as payment for future KLM, Air France, Delta Air Lines or Virgin Atlantic flights.
*Sigh*. You can even have a non-COVID related cancellation and get the COVID treatment from KLM. I guess time will tell if this is just a generic response or their real intentions. I have already lodged a chargeback for "refund not received" (as they had sent me a generic refund confirmation on the 10th March).
Now, I get this email, April 22:
The outbreak of the coronavirus has led to significant impacts on all industries, the aviation industry is facing major challenges with unforeseen consequences right now. Unfortunately, as you experienced, many of our flights are cancelled. We are doing everything possible to assist our customers in rearranging their travel plans. Given the exceptional circumstances, we will issue your refund request by a voucher in the amount of your original ticket price, to use as payment for future KLM, Air France, Delta Air Lines or Virgin Atlantic flights.
*Sigh*. You can even have a non-COVID related cancellation and get the COVID treatment from KLM. I guess time will tell if this is just a generic response or their real intentions. I have already lodged a chargeback for "refund not received" (as they had sent me a generic refund confirmation on the 10th March).
Apr 22, 20, 5:00 am
#296
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: FRA/SXB
Programs: AF/KLM FB Gold, AccorHotels Gold
Posts: 1,174
I tried to call AF multiple times earlier this week to figure out where my refund request has gone, at this point I don't care whether it's refund or voucher. And each time I was on hold for 30mn before the system hung up the call. 
So I just filed a dispute with Amex.
So I just filed a dispute with Amex.
Apr 22, 20, 9:43 am
#297
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Netherlands
Programs: KL Platinum; A3 Gold; BA Rust
Posts: 26,766
Apr 22, 20, 1:55 pm
#298
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Paris
Programs: AA LT Plat (4m+), AF Plat, A3 Gold, Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Plat, IHG Plat/Ambassador
Posts: 2,365
Originally Posted by irishguy28
I got a reply from customer service basically stating what The Guardian said.
Last edited by bostontraveler; Apr 22, 20 at 2:02 pm
Apr 23, 20, 4:46 am
#299
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: LBA
Programs: KLM FB Gold, BA, LH M&M
Posts: 400
How long is it taking at the moment for the travel vouchers to be sent out to customers? Do they still have a backlog?
I cancelled with KLM on 3 April and filled in the online form for a travel voucher.
Received confirmation email about 10 days later, stating that it may take "multiple weeks".
Voucher still not arrived after nearly 3 weeks.
I was wrong when I thought that opting for the travel voucher and using the online form, rather than blocking the phone line, would lead to the quickest resolution.
I cancelled with KLM on 3 April and filled in the online form for a travel voucher.
Received confirmation email about 10 days later, stating that it may take "multiple weeks".
Voucher still not arrived after nearly 3 weeks.
I was wrong when I thought that opting for the travel voucher and using the online form, rather than blocking the phone line, would lead to the quickest resolution.
