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COVID-19: refund provided as voucher (for non refundable fares)

Old Apr 6, 2020, 7:58 am
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European Commission EC261/2004 guidelines in context of COVD-19 dated 18 MAR 2020
US DoT Enforcement Notice regarding refunds dated 3 APR 2020.
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COVID-19: refund provided as voucher (for non refundable fares)

Old Apr 7, 2020, 8:34 am
  #211  
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Originally Posted by seawolf
US banking laws require US credit card issuers to open an dispute if it matches certain timeframes upon cardmember request. Is there no equivalent European banking regulation?
If you read the beginning of this thread, several of us have had American Express France refuse to open a dispute against AF citing that AF is a partner, and contractually they cannot act against a partner. A whole load of BS if you ask me.

That's what happened with me.

The whole issue here is there are indeed laws and practices in place, but they are being pretty blatantly flaunted now in light of the crisis.
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Old Apr 7, 2020, 9:13 am
  #212  
 
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in france laws are more of less guidelines
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Old Apr 7, 2020, 12:05 pm
  #213  
 
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Originally Posted by warakorn
Fortunately, a Dutch court has to follow the law (EC261/2004). An opinion by a government is irrelevant. Moreover, the Dutch Government cannot override, change or suspend EC261/2004.
So what? Do you think you could proceed through with a legal suit, get a decision, and fulfillment in the next couple of weeks that this will actually help you in any way?
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Old Apr 7, 2020, 1:23 pm
  #214  
 
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Originally Posted by bostontraveler
Iseveral of us have had American Express France refuse to open a dispute against AF citing that AF is a partner, and contractually they cannot act against a partner. A whole load of BS if you ask me.
Did someone try and successfully pursue a charge-back with another CC issuer? Would be interesting to know what the experiences were. I have a similar issue with AF/KL subsidiary Transavia and am contemplating CC charge back.
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Old Apr 7, 2020, 3:29 pm
  #215  
 
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Has anyone gotten a voucher before from AF/KLM or used the voucher for a future purchase? Will most likely begetting a voucher for a small inexpensive shorthaul flight in Europe. Had a long haul award flight that was cancelled and need to cancel this PRG > AMS flight.

It states: "If you purchased a ticket before 31 March 2020 directly from our website or at an Air France agency for a flight departing before 31 May 2020 and you no longer wish to travel, please complete the online form below to obtain a travel voucher. This non-refundable voucher is valid for 1 year on all Air France, KLM, Delta Air Lines, Virgin Atlantic and Kenya Airways flights."

Is the voucher like a "credit" based on how much you paid for your ticket or is the voucher valid for any shorthaul flight in general?? I have wedding to attended later this year and Delta is the only option for a non-stop flight. It is a domestic shorthaul US flight (LAX > MSP). If the my new flight from LAX > MSP is more expensive than what I paid for my PRG > AMS flight, I assume I just pay difference? Trying to figure out how the voucher works. Thanks
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Old Apr 7, 2020, 10:38 pm
  #216  
 
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Originally Posted by Drew523
Has anyone gotten a voucher before from AF/KLM or used the voucher for a future purchase? Will most likely begetting a voucher for a small inexpensive shorthaul flight in Europe. Had a long haul award flight that was cancelled and need to cancel this PRG > AMS flight.

It states: "If you purchased a ticket before 31 March 2020 directly from our website or at an Air France agency for a flight departing before 31 May 2020 and you no longer wish to travel, please complete the online form below to obtain a travel voucher. This non-refundable voucher is valid for 1 year on all Air France, KLM, Delta Air Lines, Virgin Atlantic and Kenya Airways flights."

Is the voucher like a "credit" based on how much you paid for your ticket or is the voucher valid for any shorthaul flight in general?? I have wedding to attended later this year and Delta is the only option for a non-stop flight. It is a domestic shorthaul US flight (LAX > MSP). If the my new flight from LAX > MSP is more expensive than what I paid for my PRG > AMS flight, I assume I just pay difference? Trying to figure out how the voucher works. Thanks
your voucher will be the amount you paid PRG AMS
You can use it on delta but you will have to call af and your ticket will be more expensive ....
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Old Apr 8, 2020, 12:09 am
  #217  
 
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Any recent experiences for travel to/from the US, as to AF/KLM providing refund versus credit when a flight is canceled? Recall US DOT guidance last week saying that refunds must be provided to customers who prefer this. Of course it's one thing for DOT to say so, and another thing for AF/KLM to actually comply.
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Old Apr 8, 2020, 2:17 am
  #218  
 
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Originally Posted by Drew523
Has anyone gotten a voucher before from AF/KLM or used the voucher for a future purchase? Will most likely begetting a voucher for a small inexpensive shorthaul flight in Europe. Had a long haul award flight that was cancelled and need to cancel this PRG > AMS flight.
Following up on this: has anyone received such voucher already (or the refundable one in case the flight was cancelled) ?
Just asking since I agreed to a voucher for an inexpensive flight that was cancelled, but haven't heard from them since (and I would like to have the voucher available in case I want to do some booking in the next weeks).
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Old Apr 8, 2020, 5:17 am
  #219  
 
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Originally Posted by Carpacchio
Following up on this: has anyone received such voucher already (or the refundable one in case the flight was cancelled) ?
Just asking since I agreed to a voucher for an inexpensive flight that was cancelled, but haven't heard from them since (and I would like to have the voucher available in case I want to do some booking in the next weeks).
I had a flight canceled exactly one week ago, applied for the voucher right after I received the cancelation notice. No voucher yet. I'm giving them 2 weeks before I start to inquire.
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Old Apr 8, 2020, 6:48 am
  #220  
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If you read the beginning of this thread, several of us have had American Express France refuse to open a dispute against AF citing that AF is a partner, and contractually they cannot act against a partner. A whole load of BS if you ask me.
Has Amex France gave you that statement in writing?
Or is it just some hearsay being told by call center agents?

I am asking, because they are many people who believe everything other people are telling them on the phone.
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Old Apr 8, 2020, 7:26 am
  #221  
 
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Waiting for AF Cancellation for Refund

Originally Posted by Carpacchio
Following up on this: has anyone received such voucher already (or the refundable one in case the flight was cancelled) ?
Just asking since I agreed to a voucher for an inexpensive flight that was cancelled, but haven't heard from them since (and I would like to have the voucher available in case I want to do some booking in the next weeks).
We have a flight in late May on AF that has not yet been cancelled. They have cancelled the itineraries through 5/2 but not beyond, presumably to forestall more requests for refunds or vouchers. I read the US DOT (and accompanying EU) rules as mandating a cash refund for non-refundable tickets if requested. I'm waiting until the flights get cancelled before trying to wring our money out of AF.
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Old Apr 8, 2020, 8:42 am
  #222  
 
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Originally Posted by bedelman
Any recent experiences for travel to/from the US, as to AF/KLM providing refund versus credit when a flight is canceled? Recall US DOT guidance last week saying that refunds must be provided to customers who prefer this. Of course it's one thing for DOT to say so, and another thing for AF/KLM to actually comply.
As of today, they are still refusing refunds (and this is after emailing them both a copy of the DOT guidance and copy of DOT acknowledgement of opening a case for the complaint I filed).

EDITED - my response must have been sent before they updated their policy, here under United States of America - Rebook policy coronavirus

https://www.klm.com/travel/nl_en/pre...date/index.htm
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Last edited by ocdb8r; Apr 8, 2020 at 8:48 am
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Old Apr 8, 2020, 9:55 am
  #223  
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Another data point.

Last week the Platinum Service Line put a request to the KLM Customer Care Team (I didn't known such a team existed) for my refund request for a ticket that had some flights cancelled (the original departure was to be last week). I got a auto email reply from the Customer Care Team with case reference number. Today I got a reply from them saying that I cannot have a refund - I can only have a voucher and I quote "Governments around the world have indicated that an approach like this is appropriate during this crisis, provided that these vouchers do not expire in an unreasonably short period of time and that the voucher is fully refundable if not used after 12 months. We are taking all necessary measures to deal with this crisis and, with the continued support of our customers, investors, and colleagues, to be able to bring you to your destination of choice again in the future." So KLM are putting the governments on the side of the airline and not the customer, which goes aginast what the UK Civil Aviation Authority say (https://www.caa.co.uk/Passengers/Res...cancellations/). Although the CAA is a UK body yet KLM is Dutch, I am a UK citizen with a ticket that started/finised in London.

They finish off with "KLM thanks you for your loyalty. We look forward to serving your travel needs again in the near future and to welcoming you aboard another of our flights." It seems loyalty only goes one way with KLM - from me to them. As far I as am concerned they've lost that from me now, not that any airline is concerned about the self-loading freight except now when we want refunds.
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Old Apr 8, 2020, 11:20 am
  #224  
 
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Ocdb8r, thanks for the link. It's nice to see KLM in writing indicating that they will comply with the DOT policy.
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Old Apr 8, 2020, 12:22 pm
  #225  
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Originally Posted by Drew523
Is the voucher like a "credit" based on how much you paid for your ticket or is the voucher valid for any shorthaul flight in general?? I have wedding to attended later this year and Delta is the only option for a non-stop flight. It is a domestic shorthaul US flight (LAX > MSP). If the my new flight from LAX > MSP is more expensive than what I paid for my PRG > AMS flight, I assume I just pay difference? Trying to figure out how the voucher works. Thanks
If your PRG-AMS flight was 150 EUR, your voucher will be 150 EUR. If you buy a new ticket at 200 EUR, you will use the 150 EUR voucher and will pay the 50 EUR difference by credit card. If you buy a new ticket at 100 EUR, you will use 100 EUR from your voucher and you will receive a new voucher for the remaining credit of 50 EUR.
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