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-   -   KVS Availability Tool (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travel-tools/1592702-kvs-availability-tool.html)

TWA884 Feb 3, 2015 5:58 pm

With my moderator's hat off.

Curiosity got the better of me and I spent a considerable amount of time searching for the sources of data used by the KVS Tool.

I ran across a book that shed some light.
KVS Tools is discussed on pages 10 and 11 (Google Books).

Please keep in mind that this book was published in 2011 and that the sources and methods used by KVS may have changed since then.

vbroucek Feb 4, 2015 12:18 am

Interesting answer by KVS:

"Why can't you just make that "mobile" page available in the regular KVS application? You manage to scrape all sorts of airline websites just fine... why can't you just "scrape" your own mobile site as well?"

It is something that has been considered, but is not currently feasible for operational reasons.
from here

ONTRandy Feb 4, 2015 7:46 am

Even if he could scrape his own site, it doesn't matter because the underlying data seems to be inaccurate.

nux Feb 4, 2015 7:56 am


Originally Posted by vbroucek (Post 24288515)
Interesting answer by KVS:

from here

Posted the same in this thread already: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/23918986-post47.html

WolfvanWeen Feb 4, 2015 8:04 am

After long lurking finally I have a question: why do you guys keep riding on the same topic over and over again, why don't you just simply stop subscribing?

lewinr Feb 4, 2015 9:40 am

some (maybe even many) of the frequent posters who are "riding on the same topic over and over again" are in fact not subscribers. They just enjoy policing what others are doing and/or have an axe to grind. For them your question is moot.

IMH Feb 4, 2015 9:54 am

The thread was opened to allow FTers to discuss anything related to the KVS 'availability' app. It isn't reserved for current users.

I don't need to be a current customer of a particular product to have an interest in services that help users retrieve information about flights, fares and availability in a convenient and accessible fashion. The KVS app used to do this and following this thread is a way of following developments, including learning if/when functionality is restored or the product goes legit.

lewinr Feb 4, 2015 11:38 am


Originally Posted by IMH (Post 24290352)
The thread was opened to allow FTers to discuss anything related to the KVS 'availability' app. It isn't reserved for current users.

I don't need to be a current customer of a particular product to have an interest in services that help users retrieve information about flights, fares and availability in a convenient and accessible fashion. The KVS app used to do this and following this thread is a way of following developments, including learning if/when functionality is restored or the product goes legit.

I agree, and you state your position reasonably.
I never said that people who are not users should somehow be forbidden from posting. We just need a reasonable conversation.

[Deleted by moderator]

KVS Feb 4, 2015 12:18 pm


Originally Posted by LondonElite (Post 24285825)
What does this mean? I don't understand.

It means that the MC POS is not fixed/static and can vary.

As noted previously, users, who believe that there may be practical issues that affects their searches, can provide the flight details via the Contact Form, so that we can look into that.

golfmad Feb 4, 2015 2:50 pm


Originally Posted by KVS (Post 24291276)
It means that the MC POS is not fixed/static and can vary.

For me, this became the reason why I cancelled. Without knowing the POS for availability the information becomes very much less useful. I am grateful to the folks at KVS for the way they handled by cancellation and I will certainly look at it again as the tool evolves. I have always received fast and helpful responses to any questions I've posed whether on this forum on via the contact form.

Lurker1999 Feb 5, 2015 12:48 am

Can KVS currently search accurately for Star Alliance upgrade space (i.e. I class)?

I've been using the ANA search tool to look for space on Eva flights but it's quite painful to do so manually every day for the routes I'm interested in.

nux Feb 5, 2015 1:44 am


Originally Posted by Lurker1999 (Post 24294660)
Can KVS currently search accurately for Star Alliance upgrade space (i.e. I class)?

I've been using the ANA search tool to look for space on Eva flights but it's quite painful to do so manually every day for the routes I'm interested in.

The KVS default *A award search simply scrapes the ANA website, so it will show the same results.

vbroucek Feb 5, 2015 1:56 am


Originally Posted by WolfvanWeen (Post 24289753)
After long lurking finally I have a question: why do you guys keep riding on the same topic over and over again, why don't you just simply stop subscribing?


Originally Posted by lewinr (Post 24290280)
some (maybe even many) of the frequent posters who are "riding on the same topic over and over again" are in fact not subscribers. They just enjoy policing what others are doing and/or have an axe to grind. For them your question is moot.


Originally Posted by IMH (Post 24290352)
The thread was opened to allow FTers to discuss anything related to the KVS 'availability' app. It isn't reserved for current users.

I don't need to be a current customer of a particular product to have an interest in services that help users retrieve information about flights, fares and availability in a convenient and accessible fashion. The KVS app used to do this and following this thread is a way of following developments, including learning if/when functionality is restored or the product goes legit.


Originally Posted by lewinr (Post 24290987)
I agree, and you state your position reasonably.
I never said that people who are not users should somehow be forbidden from posting. We just need a reasonable conversation.

[Deleted by moderator]

OK - I am one of those who can be seen critical of KVS. So put it straight:
  1. I have been KVS subscriber for long time and was extremely happy until things started to go pear-shaped.
  2. I am one of the people who at one stage analyzed the tool (I have qualification for that and I do it for living - I am forensic expert in the field of computer crime and fraud. I regularly present my opinions at courts of law in several jurisdictions) and realized that not everything was exactly "kosher"... However, doing so, I have breached KVS Tools TOS, so I decided to keep quiet... Well, was forced by KVS, but that's between me and KVS.
  3. I was due for renewal in November 2014 and since functions that I used most (revenue availability) were quickly becoming either unavailable or unreliable, I decided to stop supporting rather dubious business, that; a) has one or two servers hosted in Seattle, b) another in Chicago, and c) domain registration is issued to post box in Funafuti, on tiny atoll of Tuvalu in South Pacific Ocean.
  4. I can technically prove everything I said.

On the other hand, as a long term user I have to say following:
  1. IMHO if not all then many subscribers to KVS are responsible for the fact that KVS lost most of the sources of relatively cheep (nearly free) data. There are so many posts on FT, Milepoint and other forums, using KVS to help people to ascertain load on flights etc. I did that too before I realized that sources are precious and I should not probably do it. Guilty as charged.
  2. KVS did great job while it was possible. However, IMHO, it is now time to wind that company down, and admit, it is not possible anymore for revenue availability...
  3. KVS is still great for searching award availability. Yes, it is using dubious methods and some can be considered unethical or even illegal, but hey, time is money...
I am not sure if I will be posting more here, but I will see. It depends...

Finally as a challenge, can someone who still has KVS subscription find me some reasonably priced REVENUE availability between HBA and FUN, return? I think it could be FUN to try to check that post box KVS has its domain registered to:D

ONTRandy Feb 5, 2015 6:30 am


Originally Posted by vbroucek (Post 24294840)
OK - I am one of those who can be seen critical of KVS. So put it straight:
  1. I have been KVS subscriber for long time and was extremely happy until things started to go pear-shaped.
  2. I am one of the people who at one stage analyzed the tool (I have qualification for that and I do it for living - I am forensic expert in the field of computer crime and fraud. I regularly present my opinions at courts of law in several jurisdictions) and realized that not everything was exactly "kosher"... However, doing so, I have breached KVS Tools TOS, so I decided to keep quiet... Well, was forced by KVS, but that's between me and KVS.
  3. I was due for renewal in November 2014 and since functions that I used most (revenue availability) were quickly becoming either unavailable or unreliable, I decided to stop supporting rather dubious business, that; a) has one or two servers hosted in Seattle, b) another in Chicago, and c) domain registration is issued to post box in Funafuti, on tiny atoll of Tuvalu in South Pacific Ocean.
  4. I can technically prove everything I said.

On the other hand, as a long term user I have to say following:
  1. IMHO if not all then many subscribers to KVS are responsible for the fact that KVS lost most of the sources of relatively cheep (nearly free) data. There are so many posts on FT, Milepoint and other forums, using KVS to help people to ascertain load on flights etc. I did that too before I realized that sources are precious and I should not probably do it. Guilty as charged.
  2. KVS did great job while it was possible. However, IMHO, it is now time to wind that company down, and admit, it is not possible anymore for revenue availability...
  3. KVS is still great for searching award availability. Yes, it is using dubious methods and some can be considered unethical or even illegal, but hey, time is money...

I am also one who is clearly critical. I wish I had performed some DD when I was a subscriber. Had I done that, I would have found that these issues really started popping up around 2011.

In some cases (those where KVS scrapes a site with no specific TOS against it, that may be the case with GOL) the sources of the data present a moral issue, in others (where a specific TOS prohibits what KVS does, or directing users to create a fraudulent account at a university), it's not a moral issue, it's a legal issue (perhaps you can make it a moral issue if the question you're asking yourself is, "is it ok to violate TOS or break the law if it's highly unlikely that I will get caught/have any liability for doing so?").

Regardless, the truly unfortunate thing is that the tool (when it functioned with everything working and accurate) was very useful. Unfortunately, the business model has taken a negative trajectory in response to TOSes being added to sources of data that prohibit what KVS does, etc. I don't think there is a way to get this back on track and I agree with this poster, it's time to wind it down.

IMH Feb 5, 2015 6:44 am


Originally Posted by vbroucek (Post 24294840)
IMHO, it is now time to wind that company down


Originally Posted by ONTRandy (Post 24295698)
I don't think there is a way to get this back on track and I agree [...] it's time to wind it down.

I imagine everyone would be even more interested to hear KVS's authoritative voice on the future of his product. It has now been months since "Availability" became "Currently Unavailable", yet subscriptions are still being offered and the app is still called the "Availability Tool".

What happens next, KVS?


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