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-   -   KVS Availability Tool (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travel-tools/1592702-kvs-availability-tool.html)

wheresmybagba Feb 12, 2015 1:43 am


Originally Posted by lewinr (Post 24336794)
How is it prohibited? By the Terms of Service? Which part of ToS exactly does it violate? Most critics of KVS have said that ToS often forbid scraping, so I assume that is what you are saying. Scrapers generally read the information and store it which KVS does not do. KVS immediately presents the information in a different format without storing anything. Therefore KVS tool should be considered as an alternative browser.

Presumably the providers of the data disagree with you...that being the reason the 'Availability' tab is no more and the POS of the mobile companion availability search changes from one unknown source to another.

nux Feb 12, 2015 1:54 am


Originally Posted by lewinr (Post 24336794)
How is it prohibited? By the Terms of Service? Which part of ToS exactly does it violate? Most critics of KVS have said that ToS often forbid scraping, so I assume that is what you are saying. Scrapers generally read the information and store it which KVS does not do. KVS immediately presents the information in a different format without storing anything. Therefore KVS tool should be considered as an alternative browser.

Most of the websites the KVS unAvailability Tool scrapes are listed in the Wiki with the relevant ToS quoted.

Most ToS include terms that prohibit screen scraping, automated extraction/display of data, aggregate, modify of manipulate portions of content.

It is up to the end user to determine whether the KVS Availability Tool automates screen scraping by extracting specific sets of data, manipulates them and displays them in a completely different format to that intended by the website owner, if that violates the website(s) ToS, and if so whether they accept that.

vbroucek Feb 12, 2015 2:02 am


Originally Posted by lewinr (Post 24336794)
How is it prohibited? By the Terms of Service? Which part of ToS exactly does it violate? Most critics of KVS have said that ToS often forbid scraping, so I assume that is what you are saying. Scrapers generally read the information and store it which KVS does not do. KVS immediately presents the information in a different format without storing anything. Therefore KVS tool should be considered as an alternative browser.

This sounds exactly like reading KVS arguments. However, KVS will punish you if you breach KVS's TOS - done that and been punished. What I did? Discovered the sources, usernames and passwords of scraped sites for GTC method (no longer available) by monitoring network traffic on my router. So I actually even did not breach KVS's TOS since there is nothing about analysing your own router's traffic, but I was still punished for supposedly "reverse engineering" the tool.

Alternative browser would just display given information somehow differently - like you see subtle differences between IE, Firefox, Opera, Safari. All they do is interpret underlying html code. However, KVS does lots of "behind the scene work, including correlation, aggregation, temporary storage etc" before displaying (i.e. not immediately) it in completely different form.


Originally Posted by lewinr (Post 24336794)
If you want to argue that the ToS can forbid alternative presentation of a site, I am not sure that the law supports that*. And such a stance would mean that anybody who (for example) turns off of displaying images, changes the font size, uses a translation or similar widget, or has a disability that requires a special browser cannot access any such sites. And that they (or the vendors of those browsers) are also thieves.

This argument is completely incorrect. You are comparing apples and oranges here.


Originally Posted by wheresmybagba (Post 24336842)
Presumably the providers of the data disagree with you...that being the reason the 'Availability' tab is no more and the POS of the mobile companion availability search changes from one unknown source to another.

Exactly.

Placebogirl Feb 12, 2015 2:54 am

SQ upgrade
 
HI KVS, thanks for your quick response. Where/how do I check I or CS class? It doesn't show in the availability option in the mobile companion, nor does there seem to be any way of getting it out of the desktop version. I'm probably being dense here...

Yes, I am being dense. Just worked this out, sorry to bother you. Just a note though, I class doesn't show in the availability tool.

uk1 Feb 12, 2015 3:09 am

Hi,

When I can see redemption availability for BA flights on BA com, this doesn't seem to show up on the mobile companion site under the appropriate booking codes ie Z, U, P or X. Am I missing something?

Thanks.

botfly Feb 12, 2015 7:27 am

KVS Tool and CX Companion awards
 
Hello, can I use KVStool to check for CX companion awards?

Thanks.

Placebogirl Feb 12, 2015 7:46 am


Originally Posted by Placebogirl (Post 24337034)
HI KVS, thanks for your quick response.

Yes, I am being dense. Just worked this out, sorry to bother you. Just a note though, I class doesn't show in the availability tool.

I've just talked to SQ and my travel agent, and CS doesn't map to I class--I was going to change a flight to get better upgrade availability, because KVS is showing CS+, but there isn't any upgrade availability on that flight. So my new question is is there any RELIABLE way to check this?

LondonElite Feb 12, 2015 9:50 am


Originally Posted by rj123456 (Post 24336407)
KVStool claims award availability for Hawaiian is only available in the mobile companion. Per the guide, the econcomy class booking code is T.


Originally Posted by uk1 (Post 24337072)
Hi,

When I can see redemption availability for BA flights on BA com, this doesn't seem to show up on the mobile companion site under the appropriate booking codes ie Z, U, P or X. Am I missing something?

Thanks.

I think I'm correct in saying that the mobile companion, as with the previous PC screen Availability tab, did not show the award fare buckets for most (all?) airlines. This is why the Award Availability tab was there (and which is not replicated on the mobile companion.)

KVS Feb 12, 2015 12:07 pm


Originally Posted by rj123456 (Post 24336407)
I understand some of the issues re. screen scraping but as someone pointed out time is money and kvstool does a reasonable job of simplifying (or rather organizing) cumbersome multiple searches. I used it for a bunch of award searches recently and I think I could replicated the functionality using the underlying data sources that KVS itself uses; however the convenience and (once you get used to it) the (artificial) similarity of the views across multiple sources is useful.

So after a 2 month trial, I signed up for an annual subscription.

We are glad that you are enjoying the convenience, which is clearly real, unlike the imaginary "screen scraping".


Originally Posted by rj123456 (Post 24336407)
Anyways...a question. KVStool claims award availability for Hawaiian is only available in the mobile companion. Per the guide, the econcomy class booking code is T.

Unfortunately, it has now been confirmed that HA is no longer providing its T Class Availability. The HA section of the KVS Tool User Guide has been updated accordingly.



Originally Posted by rj123456 (Post 24336407)
Another strange KVS quirk is that it sometimes converts San Jose CA (SJC) to SJO (San Juan Puerto Rico???) on output. However the flight number is a valid HA flight from San Jose.

The SJC airport code display issue in the MC has now been corrected.


Originally Posted by Placebogirl (Post 24337034)
HI KVS, thanks for your quick response. Where/how do I check I or CS class? It doesn't show in the availability option in the mobile companion, nor does there seem to be any way of getting it out of the desktop version. I'm probably being dense here...


Originally Posted by Placebogirl (Post 24337034)
Yes, I am being dense. Just worked this out, sorry to bother you.

As you have already discovered, SQ Award/Upgrade Availability is accessible via the [Awards] Tab in the main KVS Tool application.


Originally Posted by Placebogirl (Post 24337034)
Just a note though, I class doesn't show in the availability tool.

SQ I Class is known as CS in the KVS Tool.


Originally Posted by Placebogirl (Post 24338149)
I've just talked to SQ and my travel agent, and CS doesn't map to I class

CS is, most definitely, I Class on SQ -- the data comes directly from SQ, so it is [technically] impossible for it not to match.


Originally Posted by Placebogirl (Post 24338149)
I was going to change a flight to get better upgrade availability, because KVS is showing CS+, but there isn't any upgrade availability on that flight.

Are you trying to upgrade using mileage from SQ KF or some other FFP?


Originally Posted by uk1 (Post 24337072)
When I can see redemption availability for BA flights on BA com, this doesn't seem to show up on the mobile companion site under the appropriate booking codes ie Z, U, P or X. Am I missing something?

Award Availability requires the use of the Main KVS Tool Application.
Please consult the BA section of the KVS Tool User Guide for details:

http://Help.KVSTool.com/#BA


Originally Posted by LondonElite (Post 24338921)
I think I'm correct in saying that the mobile companion, as with the previous PC screen Availability tab, did not show the award fare buckets for most (all?) airlines. This is why the Award Availability tab was there (and which is not replicated on the mobile companion.)

That is correct -- Mobile Companion is for Regular Availability only (with a few minor exceptions).

Xyzzy Feb 12, 2015 10:29 pm


Originally Posted by KVS (Post 24339843)
We are glad that you are enjoying the convenience, which is clearly real, unlike the imaginary "screen scraping".

Y:rolleyes:u can deny it all you want but the KVS unavailability tool is pretty much the poster child of screen scraping applications.

When the sources of the ill-obtained data find out what is going on they shut off the data source. If they approved of the misuse of their data they would not do that.

Placebogirl Feb 13, 2015 2:57 am

Again, thanks for your fast response--trying to use SQ KFF, and having no luck at all :S. For reference, the flight I am investigating is SQ237 on 30 March, which is showing CS, but both SQ and a travel agent have told me no I class on that flight--shame really, I was hoping for that upgrade :). Only telling you exact details because you might be able to figure out exactly what is going on--whether SQ have changed their feed on you or something.

vbroucek Feb 13, 2015 3:03 am


Originally Posted by Placebogirl (Post 24343569)
Again, thanks for your fast response--trying to use SQ KFF, and having no luck at all :S. For reference, the flight I am investigating is SQ237 on 30 March, which is showing CS, but both SQ and a travel agent have told me no I class on that flight--shame really, I was hoping for that upgrade :). Only telling you exact details because you might be able to figure out exactly what is going on--whether SQ have changed their feed on you or something.

You need to take some strong placebo pill and let KVS go... It's not what it used t be anymore... Time to move!

nux Feb 13, 2015 3:06 am


Originally Posted by Placebogirl (Post 24343569)
Again, thanks for your fast response--trying to use SQ KFF, and having no luck at all :S. For reference, the flight I am investigating is SQ237 on 30 March, which is showing CS, but both SQ and a travel agent have told me no I class on that flight--shame really, I was hoping for that upgrade :). Only telling you exact details because you might be able to figure out exactly what is going on--whether SQ have changed their feed on you or something.

There is saver level award availability on SQ237 on 30/Mar. You can verify this yourself using the SQ website.

vbroucek Feb 13, 2015 3:10 am


Originally Posted by nux (Post 24343586)
There is saver level award availability on SQ237 on 30/Mar. You can verify this yourself using the SQ website.

I'm no expert on SQ KFF, but award and upgrade are often two extremely different things...

nux Feb 13, 2015 3:15 am


Originally Posted by vbroucek (Post 24343594)
I'm no expert on SQ KFF, but award and upgrade are often two extremely different things...

Nor am I, just pointing out that the award inventory is being correctly displayed. Whether that means they can upgrade is another matter as you say.


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