Mar 13, 2019, 3:57 am
Last edit by: pandaperth
Chronological Summary of Changes to the Oneworld Explorer Rule Sheet
(click on the dates to go to the relevant posts in this thread)
2023-Oct-05 Changes to the Premium Economy surcharge table
2023-May-01 Rule 4(e) change, regarding second visit to Asia
2022-Aug-31 Comair removed from the list of BA affiliated Airlines
2022-Apr-21 S7 removed from the list of airlines
2021-Jul-01 Minor change
2021-Apr-01 AS joins the alliance
2020-May-01 LATAM (LA & JJ) leaves the alliance
2020-Apr-01 Royal Air Maroc (AT) joins the alliance
2019-Mar-15 Minor change
2019-Feb-11 Rule 4(j) Wording, in part, changed from:
QF operated services within USA (eg LAX-JFK vv) not permitted unless booked as a through flight segment between Australia & USA (eg SYD-JFK vv)
To:
QF operated services within USA (eg LAX-JFK vv) not permitted unless booked in conjunction with a QF operated and marketed online connection or stopover flight at LAX
Rule 15 Following paragraph removed
When travel originates in a country for which a specific local currency fares is published and the ticket is sold in another country, the fare will be that published for the country of origin converted to the currency of the country of sale at the bank selling rate.
Other, minor, changes
2019-Jan-08 Minor change (to the list of AA-affiliated airlines)
2018-Jun-06 Rule 16 - VOLUNTARY CHANGES / REROUTING / PENALTIES
Highlighted words removed
16(a)2d. If the rerouting results in an increase to the number of continents or extra flight segments previously charged, the ticket shall be recalculated.
2018-Mar-05 Rule 4(j) Words added:
QF operated services within USA (eg LAX-JFK vv) not permitted unless booked as a through flight segment between Australia & USA (eg SYD-JFK vv)
2017-Oct-30 Rule 5 Reservations and Ticketing: changed wording
From:
Reservations for the first overwater flight and all preceding flights must be made prior to departure.
To:
Reservations for the first international flight and all preceding flights must be made prior to departure.
Air berlin removed (it has ceased operating)
2017-Sep-05 No change (see the linked post)
2017-Aug-01 Rule 4(e) Major change regarding second visits to certain continents
Old Version:
New Version:
(e) Only one intercontinental departure and one intercontinental arrival permitted in each continent except as follows:
Two permitted in North America.
Two permitted in Asia when one is for travel between the Southwest Pacific and Europe/Middle East.
Two permitted in Europe/Middle East.
If travel is to/from Europe in both directions, itinerary may not include Mauritius/South Africa. AA Premium Economy booking classes added
2017-Feb-01 Rule 4(f) has the following words added:
No more than 4 international transfers from the one country permitted
2016-Dec-01 Rule 0 Removal of these words
3 Continent Fare is only offered for travel originating in Asia, Europe/Middle East and North America
(because southern hemisphere 3- continent itineraries became possible when JJ commenced its GRU-JNB service)
Rule 4(g) addition of these words:
The first crossing between TC areas must be flown, not surfaced
Rule 4(h) Removal of these words:
*not more than 2 of which may be between the UK and ALBANIA, ALGERIA, BULGARIA, CROATIA, CYPRUS, GREECE, MIDDLE EAST, MOROCCO, ROMANIA, RUSSIA west of the Urals, TUNISIA, TURKEY, UKRAINE.
2016-Aug-04 Rule 4(h) Removal of these words:
*segments between Europe and Middle East are not permitted if travel includes Africa and the itinerary utilises the backtracking provisions in Para 4(e) 3.1.3.or 3.2.3.
(So no more complicated rules regarding second visits to Europe/Middle East)
2016-Apr-22 Rule 4(e) Major change to the 2nd visit to Europe/Middle East rule
New wording is:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/membe...iddle-east.png Rule 8Stopovers.
Removal of the highlighted words:
2. Maximum two stopovers permitted in the continent of origin of which a maximum of one stopover is permitted in each direction in the country of origin.
Rule 15 Sales Restrictions
Removal of the highlighted words:
When travel originates in a country for which a specific local currency fares is published and the ticket is sold in another country, the fare will be that published for the country of origin converted to the currency of the country of sale at the bank selling rate. The resultant fare must not be lower than from the country of sale.
Exception: Not applicable when BOTH travel originates and sales are made within Europe.
2016-Apr-01 Minor change to booking classes
2015-Dec-01 Minor change to list of affiliate airlines and to the cancellation fee
2015-Nov-01 US Airways removed from list of airlines (its merger with AA was complete)
2015-Sep-01Rule 4(k) ATL added to list of east coast cities
Rule 26 Change to group booking codes
2015-Jun-01 Rule 4(k) TPA added to list of east coast cities
2015-Feb-01 Minor change to the list of affiliated carriers
Rule 16 Voluntary Changes
Removal of “Date/Time/Carrier” changes. Phrase now used is “changes to ticketed points”
2014-Nov-01 Rule 4(j) change to the list of affiliated airlines
2014-Oct-01 Rule 5 Highlighted words added
NOTE: For flights where First or Business Class is not offered or available, passengers may travel in a lower Class, in the applicable booking code for that lower Class.
Where the applicable booking class for the lower class is not available,
Passengers travelling on First Class Fares may book Y class
Passengers travelling on DONE* Business Class Fares may book B class
2014-Aug-01 Minor changes only
2014-Jul-01 IONE3 fares added
Other minor changes
2014-May-01 UL joins Oneworld
2014-Apr-01 JJ and US join Oneworld
2013-Dec-01 Allows DONEn travellers to fly in first class on QR’s Middle East flights
2013-Oct-30 QR joins Oneworld
Complicated new rule for 2nd visit to Europe/Middle East in conjunction with travel to/from/via Africa
2013-Oct-01 LAN Colombia joins Oneworld
2013-Jul-01 Minor changes
Removed the ability to purchase extra intra-continent flight segments
2013-Mar-01 Changes subsequently discovered
Continents transited to be counted
Rule 8. The highlighted words dropped
Maximum two stopovers permitted in the continent of origin of which a maximum of one stopover is permitted in each direction in the country of origin.
2013-Jan-31 MH joins Oneworld
2012-Nov Rule 0 The highlighted words added
TRAVEL BETWEEN SOUTH WEST PACIFIC AND EUROPE/MIDDLE EAST ON A SINGLE FLIGHT NUMBER/OR BY SURFACE IS CONSIDERED TRAVELLING SWP-ASIA-EUROPE/ MIDDLE EAST THROUGH THREE CONTINENTS
2011-May-02 Rule 4(l) Change to the list of Australian trans-continental flights allowed
2011-Apr-01 Rule 4(e)(3) Tanzania removed from the list of African countries where 2nd visit to Europe/Middle East allowed
2011-Feb-02 QF codeshare flight on JQ allowed
Albania and Turkey added to the list of countries to/from which only two flights allowed from/to UK
2010-Nov-01 Highlighted words added
TRAVEL BETWEEN SWP AND EUROPE/MIDDLE EAST ON A SINGLE FLIGHT NUMBER/ OR BY SURFACE IS CONSIDERED TRAVELLING SWP-ASIA-EUROPE THROUGH THREE CONTINENTS.
Premium Economy supplements increased
2009-Nov-30 Rule 4(l) Change to the list of Australian trans-continental flights allowed
2009-Aug-04 Rule 4(c) Origin-Destination surface segment allowed between Maldives and Sri Lanka/India
Rule 8. Highlighted words added
Maximum two stopovers permitted in the continent of origin of which a maximum of one stopover is permitted in each direction in the country of origin
(click on the dates to go to the relevant posts in this thread)
2023-Oct-05 Changes to the Premium Economy surcharge table
2023-May-01 Rule 4(e) change, regarding second visit to Asia
2022-Aug-31 Comair removed from the list of BA affiliated Airlines
2022-Apr-21 S7 removed from the list of airlines
2021-Jul-01 Minor change
2021-Apr-01 AS joins the alliance
2020-May-01 LATAM (LA & JJ) leaves the alliance
2020-Apr-01 Royal Air Maroc (AT) joins the alliance
2019-Mar-15 Minor change
2019-Feb-11 Rule 4(j) Wording, in part, changed from:
QF operated services within USA (eg LAX-JFK vv) not permitted unless booked as a through flight segment between Australia & USA (eg SYD-JFK vv)
To:
QF operated services within USA (eg LAX-JFK vv) not permitted unless booked in conjunction with a QF operated and marketed online connection or stopover flight at LAX
Rule 15 Following paragraph removed
When travel originates in a country for which a specific local currency fares is published and the ticket is sold in another country, the fare will be that published for the country of origin converted to the currency of the country of sale at the bank selling rate.
Other, minor, changes
2019-Jan-08 Minor change (to the list of AA-affiliated airlines)
2018-Jun-06 Rule 16 - VOLUNTARY CHANGES / REROUTING / PENALTIES
Highlighted words removed
16(a)2d. If the rerouting results in an increase to the number of continents or extra flight segments previously charged, the ticket shall be recalculated.
2018-Mar-05 Rule 4(j) Words added:
QF operated services within USA (eg LAX-JFK vv) not permitted unless booked as a through flight segment between Australia & USA (eg SYD-JFK vv)
2017-Oct-30 Rule 5 Reservations and Ticketing: changed wording
From:
Reservations for the first overwater flight and all preceding flights must be made prior to departure.
To:
Reservations for the first international flight and all preceding flights must be made prior to departure.
Air berlin removed (it has ceased operating)
2017-Sep-05 No change (see the linked post)
2017-Aug-01 Rule 4(e) Major change regarding second visits to certain continents
Old Version:
New Version:
(e) Only one intercontinental departure and one intercontinental arrival permitted in each continent except as follows:
Two permitted in North America.
Two permitted in Asia when one is for travel between the Southwest Pacific and Europe/Middle East.
Two permitted in Europe/Middle East.
If travel is to/from Europe in both directions, itinerary may not include Mauritius/South Africa. AA Premium Economy booking classes added
2017-Feb-01 Rule 4(f) has the following words added:
No more than 4 international transfers from the one country permitted
2016-Dec-01 Rule 0 Removal of these words
3 Continent Fare is only offered for travel originating in Asia, Europe/Middle East and North America
(because southern hemisphere 3- continent itineraries became possible when JJ commenced its GRU-JNB service)
Rule 4(g) addition of these words:
The first crossing between TC areas must be flown, not surfaced
Rule 4(h) Removal of these words:
*not more than 2 of which may be between the UK and ALBANIA, ALGERIA, BULGARIA, CROATIA, CYPRUS, GREECE, MIDDLE EAST, MOROCCO, ROMANIA, RUSSIA west of the Urals, TUNISIA, TURKEY, UKRAINE.
2016-Aug-04 Rule 4(h) Removal of these words:
*segments between Europe and Middle East are not permitted if travel includes Africa and the itinerary utilises the backtracking provisions in Para 4(e) 3.1.3.or 3.2.3.
(So no more complicated rules regarding second visits to Europe/Middle East)
2016-Apr-22 Rule 4(e) Major change to the 2nd visit to Europe/Middle East rule
New wording is:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/membe...iddle-east.png Rule 8Stopovers.
Removal of the highlighted words:
2. Maximum two stopovers permitted in the continent of origin of which a maximum of one stopover is permitted in each direction in the country of origin.
Rule 15 Sales Restrictions
Removal of the highlighted words:
When travel originates in a country for which a specific local currency fares is published and the ticket is sold in another country, the fare will be that published for the country of origin converted to the currency of the country of sale at the bank selling rate. The resultant fare must not be lower than from the country of sale.
Exception: Not applicable when BOTH travel originates and sales are made within Europe.
2016-Apr-01 Minor change to booking classes
2015-Dec-01 Minor change to list of affiliate airlines and to the cancellation fee
2015-Nov-01 US Airways removed from list of airlines (its merger with AA was complete)
2015-Sep-01Rule 4(k) ATL added to list of east coast cities
Rule 26 Change to group booking codes
2015-Jun-01 Rule 4(k) TPA added to list of east coast cities
2015-Feb-01 Minor change to the list of affiliated carriers
Rule 16 Voluntary Changes
Removal of “Date/Time/Carrier” changes. Phrase now used is “changes to ticketed points”
2014-Nov-01 Rule 4(j) change to the list of affiliated airlines
2014-Oct-01 Rule 5 Highlighted words added
NOTE: For flights where First or Business Class is not offered or available, passengers may travel in a lower Class, in the applicable booking code for that lower Class.
Where the applicable booking class for the lower class is not available,
Passengers travelling on First Class Fares may book Y class
Passengers travelling on DONE* Business Class Fares may book B class
2014-Aug-01 Minor changes only
2014-Jul-01 IONE3 fares added
Other minor changes
2014-May-01 UL joins Oneworld
2014-Apr-01 JJ and US join Oneworld
2013-Dec-01 Allows DONEn travellers to fly in first class on QR’s Middle East flights
2013-Oct-30 QR joins Oneworld
Complicated new rule for 2nd visit to Europe/Middle East in conjunction with travel to/from/via Africa
2013-Oct-01 LAN Colombia joins Oneworld
2013-Jul-01 Minor changes
Removed the ability to purchase extra intra-continent flight segments
2013-Mar-01 Changes subsequently discovered
Continents transited to be counted
Rule 8. The highlighted words dropped
Maximum two stopovers permitted in the continent of origin of which a maximum of one stopover is permitted in each direction in the country of origin.
2013-Jan-31 MH joins Oneworld
2012-Nov Rule 0 The highlighted words added
TRAVEL BETWEEN SOUTH WEST PACIFIC AND EUROPE/MIDDLE EAST ON A SINGLE FLIGHT NUMBER/OR BY SURFACE IS CONSIDERED TRAVELLING SWP-ASIA-EUROPE/ MIDDLE EAST THROUGH THREE CONTINENTS
2011-May-02 Rule 4(l) Change to the list of Australian trans-continental flights allowed
2011-Apr-01 Rule 4(e)(3) Tanzania removed from the list of African countries where 2nd visit to Europe/Middle East allowed
2011-Feb-02 QF codeshare flight on JQ allowed
Albania and Turkey added to the list of countries to/from which only two flights allowed from/to UK
2010-Nov-01 Highlighted words added
TRAVEL BETWEEN SWP AND EUROPE/MIDDLE EAST ON A SINGLE FLIGHT NUMBER/ OR BY SURFACE IS CONSIDERED TRAVELLING SWP-ASIA-EUROPE THROUGH THREE CONTINENTS.
Premium Economy supplements increased
2009-Nov-30 Rule 4(l) Change to the list of Australian trans-continental flights allowed
2009-Aug-04 Rule 4(c) Origin-Destination surface segment allowed between Maldives and Sri Lanka/India
Rule 8. Highlighted words added
Maximum two stopovers permitted in the continent of origin of which a maximum of one stopover is permitted in each direction in the country of origin
Changes to xONEx Rule Sheet
Aug 1, 2016, 3:08 pm
#361
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: New Zealand
Programs: AA ExPlat
Posts: 184
OK, I will get the discussion going.
It is great news that the ‘legacy’ wording is being removed – see post# 347 upthread where this was first raised (in this thread that is)
So from now on, the AA Pricing Department (or whatever its correct name is) should have no reason to disallow inter-zone segments in Europe/Middle East
__________________________________________________ ___
But the cynic in me says AA will just find some other (mis)interpretation of the rules to make life difficult for us.
I predict the misinterpretation will be over the words “travel to/from Europe in both directions” in order to disallow itineraries that include South Africa and/or Mauritius. I had already given my view on clause 4(e)3 - see post#336 upthread.
What clause 4(e) says is:I’m interested in what others think the words “to/from Europe in both directions” mean in practice. Here’s what I think they mean.
What do others think?
It is great news that the ‘legacy’ wording is being removed – see post# 347 upthread where this was first raised (in this thread that is)
So from now on, the AA Pricing Department (or whatever its correct name is) should have no reason to disallow inter-zone segments in Europe/Middle East
__________________________________________________ ___
But the cynic in me says AA will just find some other (mis)interpretation of the rules to make life difficult for us.
I predict the misinterpretation will be over the words “travel to/from Europe in both directions” in order to disallow itineraries that include South Africa and/or Mauritius. I had already given my view on clause 4(e)3 - see post#336 upthread.
What clause 4(e) says is:
- A flight TO Europe is a direct flight from an airport in Africa to an airport in the Europe Zone. In practice this currently means a direct flight to either MAD (flying IB), LHR or LGW (flying BA). AB used to have flights from WDH to Germany and may do so again, and AY to my knowledge has never flown to Africa but of course might choose to do so in the future
x - A flight FROM Europe is a direct flight from an airport in the Europe zone to an airport in Africa
x - A journey from an airport in Africa to an airport in Europe VIA DOHA is NOT a flight “to Europe” for the purpose of this rule and a journey from an airport in Europe to an airport in Africa VIA DOHA is NOT a flight “from Europe” for the purpose of this rule.
x
I have used DOHA in this example because currently QR is the only Middle East carrier flying to Africa; RJ used to fly there and of course may choose to do so again in the future
What do others think?
Great news about the re-wording and huge thanks to Pandaperth for his persistence - and I have also pressed the point with the AA RTW desk when I've called about the segments between ME and Eurpope
AA have ticketed me flying MPM-DOH - stopover - then ASIA-SWP--USA- and transiting LHR to JNB - ie ticket including travel in SA ...
So I think this means they do accept Pandaperth's intepretation of the rules regarding what constitues in and out of Europe ?
But presumably the question is - woudl AA allow it if I were to go DOH_LHR at the start of the trip ..... they wouldn't before because of their use of the no segments may be flown between ME and Europe if travel includes Africa ....
IF they do now allow this - ie MPM-DOH-LHR-RTW-xLHR-JNB - would I be able to get my ticket reissued to this or would they still apply the rules that were current at time of issue ?
Aug 1, 2016, 3:28 pm
#362
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: London
Posts: 17,007
OK, I will get the discussion going.
It is great news that the ‘legacy’ wording is being removed – see post# 347 upthread where this was first raised (in this thread that is)
So from now on, the AA Pricing Department (or whatever its correct name is) should have no reason to disallow inter-zone segments in Europe/Middle East
__________________________________________________ ___
But the cynic in me says AA will just find some other (mis)interpretation of the rules to make life difficult for us.
I predict the misinterpretation will be over the words “travel to/from Europe in both directions” in order to disallow itineraries that include South Africa and/or Mauritius. I had already given my view on clause 4(e)3 - see post#336 upthread.
What clause 4(e) says is:I’m interested in what others think the words “to/from Europe in both directions” mean in practice. Here’s what I think they mean.
What do others think?
It is great news that the ‘legacy’ wording is being removed – see post# 347 upthread where this was first raised (in this thread that is)
So from now on, the AA Pricing Department (or whatever its correct name is) should have no reason to disallow inter-zone segments in Europe/Middle East
__________________________________________________ ___
But the cynic in me says AA will just find some other (mis)interpretation of the rules to make life difficult for us.
I predict the misinterpretation will be over the words “travel to/from Europe in both directions” in order to disallow itineraries that include South Africa and/or Mauritius. I had already given my view on clause 4(e)3 - see post#336 upthread.
What clause 4(e) says is:
- A flight TO Europe is a direct flight from an airport in Africa to an airport in the Europe Zone. In practice this currently means a direct flight to either MAD (flying IB), LHR or LGW (flying BA). AB used to have flights from WDH to Germany and may do so again, and AY to my knowledge has never flown to Africa but of course might choose to do so in the future
x - A flight FROM Europe is a direct flight from an airport in the Europe zone to an airport in Africa
x - A journey from an airport in Africa to an airport in Europe VIA DOHA is NOT a flight “to Europe” for the purpose of this rule and a journey from an airport in Europe to an airport in Africa VIA DOHA is NOT a flight “from Europe” for the purpose of this rule.
x
I have used DOHA in this example because currently QR is the only Middle East carrier flying to Africa; RJ used to fly there and of course may choose to do so again in the future
What do others think?
I believe that I agree with your interpretation. The purpose of the clause “to/from Europe in both directions” can only serve to qualify the permitted routes on the left-hand-side of the table. It is to take pressure off the highly popular routes from Europe to South Africa and Mauritius; routing via DOH is probably what is intended.
LHR-JNB is one of BA's most profitable routes, even given the long downtime at JNB (which actually BA often use for cheap maintenance). LHR-CPT is also very lucrative for BA. Thus, I suspect that the true purpose of the clause is to reduce the capacity BA must make available to xONEx tickets, for which it would receive a sharply reduced revenue compared to ordinary return tickets bought on that city pair.
Last edited by Calchas; Aug 3, 2016 at 8:45 am
Aug 1, 2016, 8:47 pm
#363
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: used to be PER, now it's nowhere/eveywhere
Programs: QFF NB, AA GLD
Posts: 3,467
BUT the issue here is really "will AA continue its (mis)interpretation of the rules that were in effect when you bought the ticket". I want LHR-TLV-MAD on my ex-MPM DONE6. In due course I will be testing AA on this.
Aug 1, 2016, 8:51 pm
#364
Join Date: May 2006
Location: SAN
Programs: Lots of faux metal
Posts: 6,425
AA RTW has been known to not use the rules in effect at the time of ticketing. Think back to when MH and QR were added and people were able to add flights to exiting in progress tickets, which would not have been allowed if they followed the old rules.
Aug 3, 2016, 8:42 am
#365
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: used to be PER, now it's nowhere/eveywhere
Programs: QFF NB, AA GLD
Posts: 3,467
I found an update effective today.
Breaking: The nonsense in Para 4(h) about "the backtracking provisions in Para 4(e) 3.1.3.or 3.2.3." is being removed!
The QF filed fare rule is already updated. 4(h) line about *segments between Europe and Middle East are not permitted if... - no longer exists!
{snip}
Each member airline files their *ONEx fares - copies of each other of course - but it takes time for all of them to go in. QF is usually first and their rules are already filed. oneworld.com not updated yet. Haven't looked for any other changes.
Discuss!
The QF filed fare rule is already updated. 4(h) line about *segments between Europe and Middle East are not permitted if... - no longer exists!
{snip}
Each member airline files their *ONEx fares - copies of each other of course - but it takes time for all of them to go in. QF is usually first and their rules are already filed. oneworld.com not updated yet. Haven't looked for any other changes.
Discuss!
Just been checking on the progress of the implementation of the new rules referred to by JAXBA
- The pdf document with the fare rules on oneworld.com has not yet been updatedSince it is BA that publishes this document, I expect it will be updated when BA gets around to updating its own fare rules
- The following airlines HAVE updated their fare rules (according to ExpertFlyer)CX IB JL QF S7
- The following airlines have NOT yet updated their fare rulesAB AA BA AY MH QR RJ UL
- This airline still has the old (pre-Arpil2016) fare rules - the ones that had the complicated backtrack provisions!LA
Aug 3, 2016, 8:52 am
#366
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: used to be PER, now it's nowhere/eveywhere
Programs: QFF NB, AA GLD
Posts: 3,467
I think that the wording remains needlessly opaque.
I believe that I agree with your interpretation. The purpose of the clause “to/from Europe in both directions” can only serve to qualify the permitted routes on the left-hand-side of the table. It is to take pressure off the highly popular routes from Europe to South Africa and Mauritius; routing via DOH is probably what is intended.
LHR-JNB is one of BA's most profitable routes, even given the long downtime at JNB (which actually BA often use for cheap maintenance). LHR-CPT is also very lucrative for BA. Thus, I suspect that the true purpose of the clause is to reduce the capacity BA must make available to xONEx tickets, for which it would receive a sharply reduced revenue compared to ordinary return tickets bought on that city pair.
I believe that I agree with your interpretation. The purpose of the clause “to/from Europe in both directions” can only serve to qualify the permitted routes on the left-hand-side of the table. It is to take pressure off the highly popular routes from Europe to South Africa and Mauritius; routing via DOH is probably what is intended.
LHR-JNB is one of BA's most profitable routes, even given the long downtime at JNB (which actually BA often use for cheap maintenance). LHR-CPT is also very lucrative for BA. Thus, I suspect that the true purpose of the clause is to reduce the capacity BA must make available to xONEx tickets, for which it would receive a sharply reduced revenue compared to ordinary return tickets bought on that city pair.
I made the same sort of argument when the rules were changed in April. In this post http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/26570141-post336.html, I suggested simpler wording:
Suggested Wording
If the intention is to disallow two flights between the UK and Southern Africa – then say so explicitly:
4(e) Only one intercontinental departure and one intercontinental arrival permitted in each continent except as follows:
This wording is concise and does away with zones completely.
If the intention is to disallow two flights between the UK and Southern Africa – then say so explicitly:
4(e) Only one intercontinental departure and one intercontinental arrival permitted in each continent except as follows:
- Two permitted in North America when one is a transfer without stopover.
- Two permitted in Asia when one is a transfer without stopover or on direct single plane service between the Southwest Pacific and Europe/Middle East.
- Two permitted in Europe/Middle East when one is a transfer without stopover. Note: only one flight permitted between the UK and South Africa/Mauritius.
This wording is concise and does away with zones completely.
Aug 3, 2016, 9:08 am
#367
Join Date: Sep 2008
Programs: A3 *G, AA exePlat, AS MVP 75k Gold, JL sapphire, UA silver
Posts: 4,035
Thanks to pandaperth for your hard work to enable the change. I have yet to read the revised rule. when i was reading the rule from april. did they get rid of the hawaii restriction?
Aug 3, 2016, 9:23 am
#368
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: used to be PER, now it's nowhere/eveywhere
Programs: QFF NB, AA GLD
Posts: 3,467
The restriction on backtracking from Hawaii is a long-standing one; and it has not changed in the new version
4(b) Travel must be in a continuous forward direction between TC1 - TC2 - TC3. Backtracking within a continent is permitted except as follows:
Backtracking between Hawaii and other points in North America is not permitted.
Backtracking between Hawaii and other points in North America is not permitted.
Aug 3, 2016, 10:30 am
#369
Join Date: Sep 2008
Programs: A3 *G, AA exePlat, AS MVP 75k Gold, JL sapphire, UA silver
Posts: 4,035
Aug 3, 2016, 11:33 pm
#370
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: country Western Australia
Programs: QF SG(LTS) - AA LTG(1MM)
Posts: 2,771
...
4(e) Only one intercontinental departure and one intercontinental arrival permitted in each continent except as follows:
This wording is concise and does away with zones completely.
4(e) Only one intercontinental departure and one intercontinental arrival permitted in each continent except as follows:
- Two permitted in North America when one is a transfer without stopover.
- Two permitted in Asia when one is a transfer without stopover or on direct single plane service between the Southwest Pacific and Europe/Middle East.
- Two permitted in Europe/Middle East when one is a transfer without stopover. Note: only one flight permitted between the UK and South Africa/Mauritius.
This wording is concise and does away with zones completely.
Try
Two permitted in Asia when one is a transfer without stopover or when one is on a direct single plane service between the Southwest Pacific and Europe/Middle East.
And even that may not be sufficient.
Happy wandering
Fred
Aug 4, 2016, 2:24 am
#371
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: used to be PER, now it's nowhere/eveywhere
Programs: QFF NB, AA GLD
Posts: 3,467
The two permitted in Asia still has the ambiguity of the precedence of the "or" particularly with relation of a transit without stopover between Southwest Pacific and North America.
Try
Two permitted in Asia when one is a transfer without stopover or when one is on a direct single plane service between the Southwest Pacific and Europe/Middle East.
And even that may not be sufficient.
Happy wandering
Fred
Try
Two permitted in Asia when one is a transfer without stopover or when one is on a direct single plane service between the Southwest Pacific and Europe/Middle East.
And even that may not be sufficient.
Happy wandering
Fred
The wording is:
2.Two permitted in Asia when one is a transfer without stopover or on direct single plane service between the Southwest Pacific and Europe/Middle East.
)).Also in the past I recall some airlines would only allow transfers without stopover if they were between SWP and Europe/Middle East, but I don't recall any issues with that for some years.
The online tool allows transfers without stopovers between SWP and Africa or North America and I have twice ticketed itineraries with AA that had transfers between SWP and North America.
For those who don't know the background, the issue has been how to interpret the rule; does it mean:
- Two permitted in Asia when one is (a transfer without stopover or on direct single plane service) between the Southwest Pacific and Europe/Middle East; or does it mean
- Two permitted in Asia when one is (a transfer without stopover) or (on direct single plane service between the Southwest Pacific and Europe/Middle East.)
The first requires the transfer without stopover to be between SWP and Europe/Middle East, the second does not have that requirement.
My view is that everything after word 'stopover' should be removed. My justification is:
- In the past JL flew NRT-GRU via JFK, there was never words in the North America backtrack rule regarding this, yet IIRC people had no problem with visitng North America on itineraries that included the NRT-GRU or vv flight
- If you are on a direct serive between SWP and Europe/Middle East your ticket coupon will show just that (for example LHR-SYD) it won't show the stop in Asia, so there should be no issue with also having Asia in the itinerary
Nor is the implication dealt with that either Asia or Africa must be included (ie sold as continents) if transiting from Europe to SWP.
IMHO that is quite right. Clause 4(e) deals only with the backtracking provisions. What you are referring to Fred is covered in Clause 0 (zero!):
(My emphasis added)
How many continents you will be charged for is separate from the backtracking rules .
For example fly LHR-SYD and then on the to the Americas, you will be charged for Asia even though you don't backtrack there
Other Conditions
Fares apply only if purchased prior to departure.
The fare to be charged is determined by the highest class travelled and the number of geographic continents in the itinerary including the continent of origin and continents transited.
{snip}
* Travel between South West Pacific and Europe/Middle East on a single flight number/or by surface
eg LON-SYD/MELvv, DXB-SYD/MELvv, DOH-ADL/MEL/PER/SYDvv, is considered travelling via Asia.
Continents South West Pacific, Asia and Europe/Middle East must each be counted.
Fares apply only if purchased prior to departure.
The fare to be charged is determined by the highest class travelled and the number of geographic continents in the itinerary including the continent of origin and continents transited.
{snip}
* Travel between South West Pacific and Europe/Middle East on a single flight number/or by surface
eg LON-SYD/MELvv, DXB-SYD/MELvv, DOH-ADL/MEL/PER/SYDvv, is considered travelling via Asia.
Continents South West Pacific, Asia and Europe/Middle East must each be counted.
How many continents you will be charged for is separate from the backtracking rules .
For example fly LHR-SYD and then on the to the Americas, you will be charged for Asia even though you don't backtrack there
Aug 4, 2016, 5:23 am
#372
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: used to be PER, now it's nowhere/eveywhere
Programs: QFF NB, AA GLD
Posts: 3,467
TWO Rule Changes that had not been spotted previously
TWO Rule Changes that had not been spotted previously
What with one thing and another recently, I have been scrutinising the rule sheet very closely over the last few days, and I have spotted two changes that have not been reported here previously.
Rule 0 Counting Continents
What with one thing and another recently, I have been scrutinising the rule sheet very closely over the last few days, and I have spotted two changes that have not been reported here previously.
Rule 0 Counting Continents
I had to search back through my old versions of the rule sheet to find when this change was made - it was in March-2013
Prior to March-2013, the rule was:
And in March-2013, it changed to:
Rule 8 StopoversPrior to March-2013, the rule was:
The fare to be charged is determined by the highest class travelled and the number of geographic continents in the itinerary including the continent of origin.
The fare to be charged is determined by the highest class travelled and the number of geographic continents in the itinerary including the continent of origin and continents transited.
Prior to the changes on April 22, the rule was:
On April 22, this changed to:
Discuss.
8. STOPOVERS
Permitted
NOTE:
Permitted
NOTE:
- Minimum 2 stopovers required
- Maximum two stopovers permitted in the continent of origin of which a maximum of one stopover is permitted in each direction in the country of origin.
8. STOPOVERS
Permitted
NOTE:
Permitted
NOTE:
- Minimum 2 stopovers required
- Maximum two stopovers permitted in the continent of origin
Aug 4, 2016, 5:42 am
#373
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: London
Posts: 17,007
I do not believe that the change in continent counting is significant; has it not always been the case that transited continents must be counted? This seems more like a clarification than a real change, but I stand to be corrected.
Aug 4, 2016, 5:57 am
#374
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: used to be PER, now it's nowhere/eveywhere
Programs: QFF NB, AA GLD
Posts: 3,467
But I have a vague memory that in the dim and distant past, i.e. before the 2013 rule change, some people got away with not having North America counted when they flew NRT-GRU or vv (those JL flights were via JFK)
Aug 4, 2016, 9:24 am
#375
Join Date: May 2006
Location: SAN
Programs: Lots of faux metal
Posts: 6,425
The old AA ORD-DEL counted as including Europe even though the plane never landed there and you couldn't go back.